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krsmith17

Did we let one get away?

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I'm aware that they chose not to sign him, and that's all it is right now but IF he ends up having a better career than a handful of guys in our system then I would say that they "failed to sign him". If he chose not to sign then this point would be moot but the fact that they had every oportunity to get this guy under contract and IF he pans out it would be bad call on behalf of the scouts and Mr. Holland.

I'm aware teams need career AHLers in their system, and that is exactly why I was happy with the resigning of guys like Hoggan, Evans, Grant and Paetsch a couple weeks ago. But a team also needs to look at the players with the best shot at making the bigs.

Anyway, this topic has gone too far. I'm not saying that not signing Quine is going to stunt the Red Wings in any way, I'm just saying I think there were better options to drop rather than this kid.. Like I said, Only time will tell...

Just to level set, you do know that those signings are AHL only contracts? Quine had to be signed by the big club by June 1, not by GR so those signings have nothing to do with Quine.

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And funny how I actually never used the word know/knowing in my original posts yet you decide to quote me on it....lol

I guess it makes "sence" to ask you then who the Wings should have not signed prior to June 1 of this year to fit him on the 50 man roster then. Since Quine was drafted up through the June 1 deadline of this year to sign him, here's who the Wings have signed including contract extensions. I'm including signings at the NHL level not just prospects because Quine was as much competing for a spot on the 50 man roster with those as he was w/ other prospects:

May 2013: Alexi Marchenko, Nick Jensen

April 2013: Jared Coreau, Jimmy Howard

March 2013: Dan DeKeyser

February 2013: Brian Lashoff

September 2012: Carlo Colaiacovo, Justin Abdelkader

August 2012: Tomas Jurco, Martin Frk

July 2012: Kyle Quincey, Marek Tvrdon, Max Nicastro, Jonas Gustavsson, Jordin Tootoo, Damien Brunner

June 2012: Darren Helm

May 2012: Teemu Pulkkinen

April 2012: Riley Sheahan

March 2012: Xavier Ouellet, Ryan Sproul

February 2012: Todd Bertuzzi

October 2011: Niklas Kronwall, Peter Mrazek, Fabian Brunnstrom

July 2011: Francis Pare, Jordan Pearce, Ty Conklin, Joey MacDonald, Chris Conner, Jonathan Ericsson, Patrick Eaves, Drew Miller, Mike Commodore

OK master NHL scout, who do you not sign (and not using 20/20 hindsight vision btw i.e. signing Quine over Colaiacovo because he was always injured) in order to squeeze Quine on the 50 man roster?

What is the point in that list? Why would you list players that are no longer under contract with the Wings? Players that had absolutely no impact on signing Quine... especially considering the fact that I already listed a few players that I would let go in order to sign him... Parkes, Coetzee, Raedeke, just to name a few...

Just to level set, you do know that those signings are AHL only contracts? Quine had to be signed by the big club by June 1, not by GR so those signings have nothing to do with Quine.

Yes, I am... You are aware that that comment was aimed toward someone else, about how you need career AHLers. I was simply agreeing with him, saying that I was happy with those 4 signings. That has nothing to do with being unable to sign Quine...

Anyway, like I said in my last post, this is getting out of hand, and it's being made into something it's not... I'm done with this...

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218 pts in 252 OHL games. Sucks to let a guy like that go, but really no room right now.

I'm pretty sure that is sarcasm.. Sure, those numbers don't look great but how about look at his most recent stats instead of looking at it over 4 years... His last 28 games after being traded to the Belleville Bulls he had 14 goals and 27 assists for 41 points... As someone else pointed out, he has been compared by many scouts as a Darren Helm type of player and Helmer had very similar numbers in his junior career, in fact his points per game were slightly lower than Quine's... 167 points in 201 WHL games (arguably the least competitive of the 3 CHL leagues). Can anyone say that they wouldn't want another Helmer on this team?

People act like I'm expecting this kid to outscore Tavares next year or something. I was simply making the point that I wasn't a fan of letting him walk and I think it could be a mistake, a small one that won't have a huge impact, yes, but still a mistake...

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What is the point in that list? Why would you list players that are no longer under contract with the Wings? Players that had absolutely no impact on signing Quine... especially considering the fact that I already listed a few players that I would let go in order to sign him... Parkes, Coetzee, Raedeke, just to name a few...

Yes, I am... You are aware that that comment was aimed toward someone else, about how you need career AHLers. I was simply agreeing with him, saying that I was happy with those 4 signings. That has nothing to do with being unable to sign Quine...

Anyway, like I said in my last post, this is getting out of hand, and it's being made into something it's not... I'm done with this...

Since you asked a question, I'll actually answer even though you say you're done with this. Given that Quine was eligible to be signed between the end of June 2011 through June 1 of this year, each & every one of these signings had an impact on the Wings offering him a contract & adding him to the 50 man roster. Doesn't matter if the player signed at the time is no longer on the roster now, ultimately they were signed instead of Quine (or any other prospect for that matter) at that moment in time. For example, the Wings could have signed Quine instead of Chris Conner in July 2011, Brunnstrom in October of 2011 after his camp invite that fall, or Brunner in July of last year. To say that other signings done in the window the Wings had to get Quine on the roster had absolutely no impact on signing him is a complete fallacy.

And FYI, I was the one who mentioned the comments made by the front office that they drafted him hoping he could develop into a Darren Helm type player i.e. using his speed & skating ability as a lockdown bottom 6 center. The knock on him still 2 years after he was originally drafted is that he doesn't play well away from the puck & his defensive game is lacking. Best of luck to him in the Isles organization but I don't think anyone in the Wings' front office will be losing any sleep over not signing him.

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who do you not sign (and not using 20/20 hindsight vision btw i.e. signing Quine over Colaiacovo because he was always injured)

OK, so I have to say it...

You don't need perfect 20/20 hindsight vision or ESP to predict that Colaiacovo is going to be injured a lot/most of the time. Kid is made of glass and is seemingly always injured. Right when we signed him, my first thought was that it was a waste of money and a roster spot as he was likely going to be good 'ol glass Carlo and sit out injured most of the time, which of course he did.

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who do you not sign (and not using 20/20 hindsight vision btw i.e. signing Quine over Colaiacovo because he was always injured)

OK, so I have to say it...

You don't need perfect 20/20 hindsight vision or ESP to predict that Colaiacovo is going to be injured a lot/most of the time. Kid is made of glass and is seemingly always injured. Right when we signed him, my first thought was that it was a waste of money and a roster spot as he was likely going to be good 'ol glass Carlo and sit out injured most of the time, which of course he did.

20 games a season is a lot but it's not most of the time. Regardless, not signing Colaiacovo wouldn't have opened a contract for Quincey because he's a center and was going to be in juniors for the year and they wanted an NHL defenseman. They just would have signed a different d instead.

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Since you asked a question, I'll actually answer even though you say you're done with this. Given that Quine was eligible to be signed between the end of June 2011 through June 1 of this year, each & every one of these signings had an impact on the Wings offering him a contract & adding him to the 50 man roster. Doesn't matter if the player signed at the time is no longer on the roster now, ultimately they were signed instead of Quine (or any other prospect for that matter) at that moment in time. For example, the Wings could have signed Quine instead of Chris Conner in July 2011, Brunnstrom in October of 2011 after his camp invite that fall, or Brunner in July of last year. To say that other signings done in the window the Wings had to get Quine on the roster had absolutely no impact on signing him is a complete fallacy.

And FYI, I was the one who mentioned the comments made by the front office that they drafted him hoping he could develop into a Darren Helm type player i.e. using his speed & skating ability as a lockdown bottom 6 center. The knock on him still 2 years after he was originally drafted is that he doesn't play well away from the puck & his defensive game is lacking. Best of luck to him in the Isles organization but I don't think anyone in the Wings' front office will be losing any sleep over not signing him.

None of those signings had an impact on the eventual signing or letting go of Quine... They could have signed every player you listed and still offered Quine a contract before June 1st by dropping a player with less potential / upside, like I mentioned numerous times... Why do you keep bringing up these players that have been signed when I specifially named players not on that list? If you can honestly say that you think we were better off keeping Trevor Parkes, Willie Coetzee, Brent Raedeke, among many others over Alan Quine then that's your opinion and that's fine, but we won't know for sure for a number of years so this argument is beyond ridiculous...

A whole 2 years after he was drafted he's still concentrating more on the offensive side of the game then the defensive side? What 20 year old junior player does that?.. unheard of... How many junior forwards don't even know a defensive zone exists until they make it pro? How many kids playing junior would rather score a goal then back-check their ass off to break up a play? One of the easiest things to teach a kid with good work ethic is how to back-check and play a two-way game, and what better system to learn that in then in Detroit?

I know I said I was done before but you suckered me in again... Now I'm done... lol

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Since you asked a question, I'll actually answer even though you say you're done with this. Given that Quine was eligible to be signed between the end of June 2011 through June 1 of this year, each & every one of these signings had an impact on the Wings offering him a contract & adding him to the 50 man roster. Doesn't matter if the player signed at the time is no longer on the roster now, ultimately they were signed instead of Quine (or any other prospect for that matter) at that moment in time. For example, the Wings could have signed Quine instead of Chris Conner in July 2011, Brunnstrom in October of 2011 after his camp invite that fall, or Brunner in July of last year. To say that other signings done in the window the Wings had to get Quine on the roster had absolutely no impact on signing him is a complete fallacy.

And FYI, I was the one who mentioned the comments made by the front office that they drafted him hoping he could develop into a Darren Helm type player i.e. using his speed & skating ability as a lockdown bottom 6 center. The knock on him still 2 years after he was originally drafted is that he doesn't play well away from the puck & his defensive game is lacking. Best of luck to him in the Isles organization but I don't think anyone in the Wings' front office will be losing any sleep over not signing him.

None of those signings had an impact on the eventual signing or letting go of Quine... They could have signed every player you listed and still offered Quine a contract before June 1st by dropping a player with less potential / upside, like I mentioned numerous times... Why do you keep bringing up these players that have been signed when I specifially named players not on that list? If you can honestly say that you think we were better off keeping Trevor Parkes, Willie Coetzee, Brent Raedeke, among many others over Alan Quine then that's your opinion and that's fine, but we won't know for sure for a number of years so this argument is beyond ridiculous...

A whole 2 years after he was drafted he's still concentrating more on the offensive side of the game then the defensive side? What 20 year old junior player does that?.. unheard of... How many junior forwards don't even know a defensive zone exists until they make it pro? How many kids playing junior would rather score a goal then back-check their ass off to break up a play? One of the easiest things to teach a kid with good work ethic is how to back-check and play a two-way game, and what better system to learn that in then in Detroit?

I know I said I was done before but you suckered me in again... Now I'm done... lol

If they specifically told him to improve a certain part of his game and he wouldn't because scoring is more fun, doesn't that raise a red flag to you?

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If they specifically told him to improve a certain part of his game and he wouldn't because scoring is more fun, doesn't that raise a red flag to you?

That is a big IF isn't it? Do you have a link where anyone told Quine to work on his defense?...

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I'm pretty sure that is sarcasm.. Sure, those numbers don't look great but how about look at his most recent stats instead of looking at it over 4 years... His last 28 games after being traded to the Belleville Bulls he had 14 goals and 27 assists for 41 points... As someone else pointed out, he has been compared by many scouts as a Darren Helm type of player and Helmer had very similar numbers in his junior career, in fact his points per game were slightly lower than Quine's... 167 points in 201 WHL games (arguably the least competitive of the 3 CHL leagues). Can anyone say that they wouldn't want another Helmer on this team?

People act like I'm expecting this kid to outscore Tavares next year or something. I was simply making the point that I wasn't a fan of letting him walk and I think it could be a mistake, a small one that won't have a huge impact, yes, but still a mistake...

Wasn't being sarcastic. His numbers were good the last few seasons. Just no room for him.

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None of those signings had an impact on the eventual signing or letting go of Quine... They could have signed every player you listed and still offered Quine a contract before June 1st by dropping a player with less potential / upside, like I mentioned numerous times...

So roster management (which I think player signings have something to do with right?) has no impact on which prospects a team decides to sign & add to said roster? Really?

Every single transaction the Wings make in regards to adding to the 50 man roster (especially when you're already at/near the limit) has an impact on who or who does not get signed. It's a simple process to follow: bringing talent up from within the organization opens a roster spot up for a prospect to be signed. Signing from outside/re-signing an existing roster player blocks a new prospect from signing.

So in real world applications, yes it does matter to Quine's contract status (all unsigned prospects actually) with the Wings whether or not Kenny decides to sign a Damien Brunner in July of last year instead of putting Nyquist or Tatar in that spot, signing a Colaiacovo instead of going with Lashoff or Almquist, sign Brunnstrom after a camp tryout, etc. because each one of those moves takes up a roster spot that could have been used to sign a new prospect as you pull talent up from GR. And ultimately, maintaining your roster & prospect pool this way doesn't cost the organization extra money, which "dropping" already signed prospects does. Plus that will probably give your organization a bad reputation if you routinely buy prospect contracts out.

So to sum up my opinion, how the front office goes about building the roster in regards to signing UFAs/re-signing existing roster players vs. promoting from the AHL, is the single most important factor in determining how many new prospects make it into their system on an annual basis.

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If they specifically told him to improve a certain part of his game and he wouldn't because scoring is more fun, doesn't that raise a red flag to you?

That is a big IF isn't it? Do you have a link where anyone told Quine to work on his defense?...

If he was being compared to Helm, and he needed to be better defensively, wouldn't it have made sense to tell him to work on that part of his game? I don't see how that's a big if.

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As everyone knows, we didn't offer Alan Quine a contract before June 1st, so he was eligible to re-enter this years draft. He was picked up by the Islanders and attended their training camp this week and showed off some pretty slick moves in the shootout...

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hdpid=49&id=262877〈=en

I thought for sure we were going to give this kid a contract but I guess management just didn't see the potential. I still think we should have given him a shot and let someone else go, there were options in someone like Parkes, Coetzee or Raedeke...

I'm not saying Quine ever had or has the potential to be a big time player in the NHL but to me, he definitely has a lot more potential then the other guys I listed, younger with more upside in my opinion. Well it wouldn't be the first player let go and it won't be the last, I just hope this one doesn't come to bite them in the @ss.

Players that re-enter the draft and turn out to become full-time impact NHLers aren't that plentiful but there are a few. Some of these players include...

Craig Anderson (drafted #77 in 1999 by Calgary and then re-drafted #73 in 2001 by Chicago)

Nick Boynton (drafted #9 in 1997 by Washington and then re-drafted #21 in 1999 by Boston)

Tim Brent (drafted #37 in 2002 by Anaheim and then re-drafted #75 in 2004 again by Anaheim)

Matthew Lombardi (drafted #215 in 2000 by Edmonton and then re-drafted #90 in 2004 by Calgary)

Nathan Paetsch (drafted #58 in 2001 by Washinton and then re-drafted #202 in 2003 by Buffalo)

Jarret Stoll (drafted #46 in 2000 by Calgary and then re-drafted #36 in 2002 by Edmonton)

Mike Zigomanis (drafted #64 in 1999 by Buffalo and then re-drafted #46 in 2001 by Carolina)

Maybe Quine will turn out to be a Lombardi or Stoll for the Islanders. I personally, wish the kid the best of luck and hope Kenny regrets letting him walk... :glare:

I did actually take the time to read your actual post and just went to re-read it a second time. I still don't see an actual point or a fact would even make me think that he would be as good as your stating. I mean all you did was post players name that have been successful with there careers after being re-drafted. As you did say it's very few ... what makes you think that he will be as good or close to be as good as they did. Just comparing him to other types of players doesn't make me believe he can be as good better or worst.

Now it could be possible that we might of let one walk away and it's as possible that we didn't lose anything as well.

I'm not arguing the fact that you think he can or can't play, all I'm saying is instead of actually judging his potential by his situation & some shootout goals bring in some stats or real facts.

Unfortunately you've got nothing to back up that we've lost out on him.

You are of course entitled of your opinion but at least base your opinions on some facts instead of shootout goals.

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So roster management (which I think player signings have something to do with right?) has no impact on which prospects a team decides to sign & add to said roster? Really?

Every single transaction the Wings make in regards to adding to the 50 man roster (especially when you're already at/near the limit) has an impact on who or who does not get signed. It's a simple process to follow: bringing talent up from within the organization opens a roster spot up for a prospect to be signed. Signing from outside/re-signing an existing roster player blocks a new prospect from signing.

So in real world applications, yes it does matter to Quine's contract status (all unsigned prospects actually) with the Wings whether or not Kenny decides to sign a Damien Brunner in July of last year instead of putting Nyquist or Tatar in that spot, signing a Colaiacovo instead of going with Lashoff or Almquist, sign Brunnstrom after a camp tryout, etc. because each one of those moves takes up a roster spot that could have been used to sign a new prospect as you pull talent up from GR. And ultimately, maintaining your roster & prospect pool this way doesn't cost the organization extra money, which "dropping" already signed prospects does. Plus that will probably give your organization a bad reputation if you routinely buy prospect contracts out.

So to sum up my opinion, how the front office goes about building the roster in regards to signing UFAs/re-signing existing roster players vs. promoting from the AHL, is the single most important factor in determining how many new prospects make it into their system on an annual basis.

You clearly aren't understanding what I'm saying and it boggles my mind how you can miss the point when I said it very clearly over and over again. No, it does NOT matter who they have signed in the past couple years because I said from my very first post that I think they should have kept this kid, and let specific player(s) go... How do you not get that? So what if they signed Chris Connor to a one year, two-way contract 2 years ago... So what if they signed Riley Sheahan to a three year, entry level contract, April of last year... So what if they signed highly touted, free agent Danny DeKeyser to a two year contract, this past March? The point is NONE of these signing have any bearing on signing Quine or any player when I state plain as day that they should have let go one of Parkes, Coetzee or Raedeke... I know, that is very hard to comprehend so I don't even know why I'm bothering with this...

If he was being compared to Helm, and he needed to be better defensively, wouldn't it have made sense to tell him to work on that part of his game? I don't see how that's a big if.

He has been compared to Helm, that doesn't necessarily mean they ever expected him to BE Darren Helm. The only reason he was compared to Helm in my opinion was his lightning fast speed. Like I said before, defense can be taught, penalty killing can be taught, so maybe he would have been put into that type of role once he made it pro...

I did actually take the time to read your actual post and just went to re-read it a second time. I still don't see an actual point or a fact would even make me think that he would be as good as your stating. I mean all you did was post players name that have been successful with there careers after being re-drafted. As you did say it's very few ... what makes you think that he will be as good or close to be as good as they did. Just comparing him to other types of players doesn't make me believe he can be as good better or worst.

Now it could be possible that we might of let one walk away and it's as possible that we didn't lose anything as well.

I'm not arguing the fact that you think he can or can't play, all I'm saying is instead of actually judging his potential by his situation & some shootout goals bring in some stats or real facts.

Unfortunately you've got nothing to back up that we've lost out on him.

You are of course entitled of your opinion but at least base your opinions on some facts instead of shootout goals.

LOL... You're trying to tell me you read every post here twice and you come to the conclusion that I think this guy is going to be some kind of star or something? That he will actually have a career like some of the guys I listed? Wow... People really need to learn how to read...

I did not once say that he will have a career anywhere near a Lombardi or Stoll or anyone else for that matter... What does the title say?.. "DID we let one get away?" it's a question, not a statement... I have no problem with people voicing their opinion, if you agree with what I'm saying, ok, if you don't, great, let's have a debate, just don't claim to know what is or isn't going to happen...

You clearly didn't read everything I said in past posts because someone else brought up the shootout and as I said before, the shootout means nothing to me, it was nothing more than a fun clip. Then you say I should bring up some stats. I listed his career junior stats, as well as his stats since being traded to Bellville... Of course junior stats mean jack, when it comes to making the bigs but I have seen this kid play and to me, he plays with a ton of heart, and I think he will be a solid 3rd or 4th line guy in the NHL one day. But what do I know?...

Once again, I am not saying that "we have" lost out on this guy, I am asking "have we?".. and the bottom line is, no one will know for sure for another 5+ years anyway...

Someone should just delete this thread because it's pretty clear that everyone is missing the point and misinterpreting everything I am saying... I don't think in any way that Quine is going to be a super star in the NHL, nor am I sure that he will even play a single NHL game. I am not comparing him to any past redrafted players, I am simply pointing out that some of these guys do end up panning out. I am not saying he all of a sudden has star potential because of one shootout move. So stop trying to make something out of nothing.

End rant...

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Did they let one get away? Probably not. Simple short answer

Lol.. Thank you. I respect that answer and I agree with it to an extent. I don't think Kenny has or ever will lose any sleep over losing this kid, I'm just saying the possibility is definitely there that he "could", someday. But like you said "Probably not"...

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You clearly aren't understanding what I'm saying and it boggles my mind how you can miss the point when I said it very clearly over and over again. No, it does NOT matter who they have signed in the past couple years because I said from my very first post that I think they should have kept this kid, and let specific player(s) go... How do you not get that? So what if they signed Chris Connor to a one year, two-way contract 2 years ago... So what if they signed Riley Sheahan to a three year, entry level contract, April of last year... So what if they signed highly touted, free agent Danny DeKeyser to a two year contract, this past March? The point is NONE of these signing have any bearing on signing Quine or any player when I state plain as day that they should have let go one of Parkes, Coetzee or Raedeke... I know, that is very hard to comprehend so I don't even know why I'm bothering with this...

No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board. You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing. When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board. It just doesn't happen. About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects. More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum. He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season. Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting? Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him. Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.

You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up. Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs? For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"? I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not. So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster? That is the only way he would have been offered a contract. And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by ogreslayer

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No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board. You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing. When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board. It just doesn't happen. About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects. More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum. He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season. Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting? Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him. Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.

You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up. Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs? For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"? I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not. So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster? That is the only way he would have been offered a contract. And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned.

I just dont like old slow guy signings = Bert, Sammy, Holmstrom. These are Holland's mistakes.

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No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board. You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing. When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board. It just doesn't happen. About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects. More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum. He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season. Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting? Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him. Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.

You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up. Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs? For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"? I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not. So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster? That is the only way he would have been offered a contract. And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned.

Ok, this conversation is over... I'll respond to anyone else on this topic but it has become tiresome... You and other people putting words into my mouth... When in this whole thread did I mention ANYTHING about buying ANYONE out?...

LEARN HOW TO READ BEFORE YOU WRITE!!! F*ckin Ridiculous...

I said, let these players go because they serve no purpose to the Red Wings other than a roster filler for one of their minor league affiliates, either in Grand Rapids or most likely Toledo... That does not mean they necessarily need to be "bought out".. Teams trade 2 for 1 minor league players all the time to make room for a guy they want to sign.. It isn't rocket science..

How do you not get that a 20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level? There is no telling where this kid will be in 5 years.. He could be a career minor leaguer or he could be a very solid 3rd or 4th line NHLer...

Anyway, you keep twisting the point into something that it isn't and putting words into my mouth so I am actually done with this, you can respond if you want but I won't be opening this thread anymore, so it will be a waste of your time...

Go Wings!........

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Ok, this conversation is over... I'll respond to anyone else on this topic but it has become tiresome... You and other people putting words into my mouth... When in this whole thread did I mention ANYTHING about buying ANYONE out?...

LEARN HOW TO READ BEFORE YOU WRITE!!! F*ckin Ridiculous...

I said, let these players go because they serve no purpose to the Red Wings other than a roster filler for one of their minor league affiliates, either in Grand Rapids or most likely Toledo... That does not mean they necessarily need to be "bought out".. Teams trade 2 for 1 minor league players all the time to make room for a guy they want to sign.. It isn't rocket science..

How do you not get that a 20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level? There is no telling where this kid will be in 5 years.. He could be a career minor leaguer or he could be a very solid 3rd or 4th line NHLer...

Anyway, you keep twisting the point into something that it isn't and putting words into my mouth so I am actually done with this, you can respond if you want but I won't be opening this thread anymore, so it will be a waste of your time...

Go Wings!........

Oh I have to continue to poke, it's in my nature. Next time you mean trade a player, then say trade a player. Maybe more discriptively state your point instead of leaving yourself open to interpretation that way. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here that would define "let a player go" (which you mention more than once without once mentioning the word trade until your latest post) as including the option to buy out of an existing contract or not re-signing when it's up. Actually those are the much easier options of clearing up a roster spot than finding a trading partner for your prospects that aren't working out. Since your 2-1 minor leaguer trades to open roster spots happen all the time, I'm sure you could site numerous examples of them for me. When was the last time the Wings traded two young roster players off for the sole purpose freeing up a slot to sign a 19-20 year old prospect? I'm sure you could tell me.

One last thing on the "20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level". If the Wings subscribed to that theory, they would have traded off Jimmy Howard at the age of 24 when plenty of people were calling him a bust after 3 years of going a combined 63-67-9 in GR with a 2.7 GAA & .911 Sv% & 1-5-0 in Detroit with a 2.76 GAA & .907 Sv%. Personally, I'm glad that the Wings show a little more patience & longer-term view with their players they decide to invest in instead of flipping them constantly for the younger, not necessarily better model.

So yeah, I'm sticking with my original opinion that you decided to ridicule back on the first page of this thread: There are far better prospects in the system that deserved pro contracts over Quine.

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