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Did we let one get away?


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#41 DickieDunn

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:18 AM

Did they let one get away? Probably not. Simple short answer

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#42 krsmith17

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

Did they let one get away? Probably not. Simple short answer

 

Lol.. Thank you. I respect that answer and I agree with it to an extent. I don't think Kenny has or ever will lose any sleep over losing this kid, I'm just saying the possibility is definitely there that he "could", someday. But like you said "Probably not"...



#43 ogreslayer

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

 

You clearly aren't understanding what I'm saying and it boggles my mind how you can miss the point when I said it very clearly over and over again. No, it does NOT matter who they have signed in the past couple years because I said from my very first post that I think they should have kept this kid, and let specific player(s) go... How do you not get that? So what if they signed Chris Connor to a one year, two-way contract 2 years ago... So what if they signed Riley Sheahan to a three year, entry level contract, April of last year... So what if they signed highly touted, free agent Danny DeKeyser to a two year contract, this past March? The point is NONE of these signing have any bearing on signing Quine or any player when I state plain as day that they should have let go one of Parkes, Coetzee or Raedeke... I know, that is very hard to comprehend so I don't even know why I'm bothering with this...

 

 

 

No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board.  You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing.  When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board.  It just doesn't happen.  About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects.  More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum.  He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season.  Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting?  Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him.  Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.  

 

You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up.  Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs?  For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"?  I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not.  So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster?  That is the only way he would have been offered a contract.  And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned. 


Edited by ogreslayer, 23 July 2013 - 07:51 AM.


#44 The Axe

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:39 AM

 
No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board.  You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing.  When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board.  It just doesn't happen.  About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects.  More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum.  He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season.  Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting?  Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him.  Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.  
 
You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up.  Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs?  For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"?  I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not.  So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster?  That is the only way he would have been offered a contract.  And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned. 


I just dont like old slow guy signings = Bert, Sammy, Holmstrom. These are Holland's mistakes.

#45 krsmith17

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:24 AM

 

No, I am fully aware that you're saying to buy out another prospect to bring Quine on board.  You don't seem to understand my point which is that the Wings (all teams in general really) do not buy out the contracts of minor league prospects that they've put time & money into developing.  When an organization commits for example to a three year contract for a prospect to allow them to develop within the organization, they're not going to just cut a player loose a year or two into it just to bring a newer, less developed prospect on board.  It just doesn't happen.  About the only time you see contract buy outs happen in the AHL are when players actually go to the team & ask for their release so they can sign a more lucrative contract to go play overseas & that rarely ever happens with prospects.  More often what you see happen is what just happened with Tomas McCollum.  He didn't develop as quickly as the Wings wanted on his entry level contract but was allowed to play out the string & will now be on an GR only contract beginning next season.  Could the Wings have bought him out this past season to free up a spot for someone else instead of waiting?  Sure they could have but then they lose the player as well as the time & money they spent developing him.  Now they keep him in the organization & don't flush their investment in him.  

 

You say buy out Parkes, Coetzee, or Raedeke & I'm saying that's an option the Wings never would have used and historically, that holds up.  Do you not think that every time the Wings have a roster spot to fill, there's not a discussion on what the best short term & long term options are for that spot given the team's needs?  For example, do you not think the front office asked among themselves "Is signing a Chris Conner to split time between Detroit & GR our best option or do we have someone within the organization ready to play that role & if so, what prospect are we high enough on to offer a contract if we don't fill that spot from outside"?  I guarantee you that each & every time the Wings sign a player, they do so after taking a look at the impact across the entire organization, including their prospects signed or not.  So the question I've posed that you continue to ignore is if you really think Quine deserved a contract, which player signed between July 1, 2011 & June 1, 2013 would you not have signed in order to fit Quine on the 50 man roster?  That is the only way he would have been offered a contract.  And while I personally didn't like all of the signings the Wings made during that period, based on the organizational needs at the time of each signing, each one of them made far more sense than to sign Quine as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Ok, this conversation is over... I'll respond to anyone else on this topic but it has become tiresome... You and other people putting words into my mouth... When in this whole thread did I mention ANYTHING about buying ANYONE out?...

 

LEARN HOW TO READ BEFORE YOU WRITE!!! F*ckin Ridiculous...

 

I said, let these players go because they serve no purpose to the Red Wings other than a roster filler for one of their minor league affiliates, either in Grand Rapids or most likely Toledo... That does not mean they necessarily need to be "bought out".. Teams trade 2 for 1 minor league players all the time to make room for a guy they want to sign.. It isn't rocket science..

 

How do you not get that a 20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level? There is no telling where this kid will be in 5 years.. He could be a career minor leaguer or he could be a very solid 3rd or 4th line NHLer...

 

Anyway, you keep twisting the point into something that it isn't and putting words into my mouth so I am actually done with this, you can respond if you want but I won't be opening this thread anymore, so it will be a waste of your time...

 

Go Wings!........



#46 ogreslayer

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

 

Ok, this conversation is over... I'll respond to anyone else on this topic but it has become tiresome... You and other people putting words into my mouth... When in this whole thread did I mention ANYTHING about buying ANYONE out?...

 

LEARN HOW TO READ BEFORE YOU WRITE!!! F*ckin Ridiculous...

 

I said, let these players go because they serve no purpose to the Red Wings other than a roster filler for one of their minor league affiliates, either in Grand Rapids or most likely Toledo... That does not mean they necessarily need to be "bought out".. Teams trade 2 for 1 minor league players all the time to make room for a guy they want to sign.. It isn't rocket science..

 

How do you not get that a 20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level? There is no telling where this kid will be in 5 years.. He could be a career minor leaguer or he could be a very solid 3rd or 4th line NHLer...

 

Anyway, you keep twisting the point into something that it isn't and putting words into my mouth so I am actually done with this, you can respond if you want but I won't be opening this thread anymore, so it will be a waste of your time...

 

Go Wings!........

 

Oh I have to continue to poke, it's in my nature.  Next time you mean trade a player, then say trade a player.  Maybe more discriptively state your point instead of leaving yourself open to interpretation that way.  I'm sure I'm not the only one around here that would define "let a player go" (which you mention more than once without once mentioning the word trade until your latest post) as including the option to buy out of an existing contract or not re-signing when it's up.  Actually those are the much easier options of clearing up a roster spot than finding a trading partner for your prospects that aren't working out.  Since your 2-1 minor leaguer trades to open roster spots happen all the time, I'm sure you could site numerous examples of them for me.  When was the last time the Wings traded two young roster players off for the sole purpose freeing up a slot to sign a 19-20 year old prospect?  I'm sure you could tell me.  

 

One last thing on the "20 year old kid playing junior has more potential to become something over a 23 year old kid that has failed to adapt at the AHL level".  If the Wings subscribed to that theory, they would have traded off Jimmy Howard at the age of 24 when plenty of people were calling him a bust after 3 years of going a combined 63-67-9 in GR with a 2.7 GAA & .911 Sv% & 1-5-0 in Detroit with a 2.76 GAA & .907 Sv%.  Personally, I'm glad that the Wings show a little more patience & longer-term view with their players they decide to invest in instead of flipping them constantly for the younger, not necessarily better model. 

 

So yeah, I'm sticking with my original opinion that you decided to ridicule back on the first page of this thread: There are far better prospects in the system that deserved pro contracts over Quine. 







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