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greenrebellion

Would you want Moulson on the Wings?

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Well if Sammy was waived, and he cleared, we'd only have 100k against the cap, so it wouldn't be enough to recall Nyquist. Even so, there's still no harm whatsoever in waiving him just to see what happens.

Sure there is. If someone gets banged up we won't even be able to afford to bring up a replacement.

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Well if Sammy was waived, and he cleared, we'd only have 100k against the cap, so it wouldn't be enough to recall Nyquist. Even so, there's still no harm whatsoever in waiving him just to see what happens.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if he was waived, can we not spread his remaining salary over this year and next?

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Correct me if I am wrong, but if he was waived, can we not spread his remaining salary over this year and next?

No you're thinking about buyouts. If we waive Sammy it takes a body off our 23 man roster and really doesn't help the cap situation at all. Thus it actually hurts us because we wouldn't be able to replace him.

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Sure there is. If someone gets banged up we won't even be able to afford to bring up a replacement.

You don't have to leave a guy in the minors if he clears waivers. Remember prior to the first game? Emmerton was waived and cleared, and then immediately brought back up to the big club for opening night. Waive Sammy, if he clears great, if he doesn't put him right back on the Wing's roster and it will be like nothing had changed. No harm, no foul.

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You don't have to leave a guy in the minors if he clears waivers. Remember prior to the first game? Emmerton was waived and cleared, and then immediately brought back up to the big club for opening night. Waive Sammy, if he clears great, if he doesn't put him right back on the Wing's roster and it will be like nothing had changed. No harm, no foul.

That's fair. I was more referring to the suggestion to get him off the roster.

I have a feeling they know full well that no one would claim him. Why not try it? Knowing this organization...probably just out of respect for the player they signed and committed to.

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That's fair. I was more referring to the suggestion to get him off the roster.

I have a feeling they know full well that no one would claim him. Why not try it? Knowing this organization...probably just out of respect for the player they signed and committed to.

Question though. If Sammy is Waived and claimed he would still have to waive his NTC yes? no?

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Question though. If Sammy is Waived and claimed he would still have to waive his NTC yes? no?

No. If he had a no movement clause he couldn't be waived. As is, he's got a no trade, which has nothing to do with waivers.

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You don't have to leave a guy in the minors if he clears waivers. Remember prior to the first game? Emmerton was waived and cleared, and then immediately brought back up to the big club for opening night. Waive Sammy, if he clears great, if he doesn't put him right back on the Wing's roster and it will be like nothing had changed. No harm, no foul.

If you are implying that there is a non-zero chance that someone will claim him, let me assure you that the chances of him being claimed are indeed zero.

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While on the topic of Sammy and waivers, I have a question for you guys. I assume it would be protected against, but then I could also assume it's not.

Could Kenny waive Sammy and send him to gr until he gets hurt, then call him up and place him on LTIR to get rid of his cap hit? It seems like cap circumvention to me, but I don't know if there were any rules against this. If it's perfectly legal, what are we thinking not doing it? Theres a much higher chance of him getting hurt playing games than in practice. Seems like a pretty foolproof idea to me if there is nothing in the cba against it.

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While on the topic of Sammy and waivers, I have a question for you guys. I assume it would be protected against, but then I could also assume it's not.

Could Kenny waive Sammy and send him to gr until he gets hurt, then call him up and place him on LTIR to get rid of his cap hit? It seems like cap circumvention to me, but I don't know if there were any rules against this. If it's perfectly legal, what are we thinking not doing it? Theres a much higher chance of him getting hurt playing games than in practice. Seems like a pretty foolproof idea to me if there is nothing in the cba against it.

First off welcome to LGW.

In regards to your point there's no way the club would orchestrate a plan that revolves around assuming a player is going to get injured.

Not to mention we would still be short a roster man as long as he's healthy in the minors as we wouldn't be able to bring anyone up because of the cap.

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Moulson is kinda like Vanek; he's a one-zone player, but he's very good in that one zone. I think the big question with him is, How will he fare without Tavares?

All things considered, I'd rather see us pick up a veteran top-4 defenseman. Like I've said before, I think the holes on the blue line left by Lidstrom and Rafalski = our biggest source of suck.

Bogosian

Edler

Enstrom

Girardi

Et al.

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First off welcome to LGW.

In regards to your point there's no way the club would orchestrate a plan that revolves around assuming a player is going to get injured.

Not to mention we would still be short a roster man as long as he's healthy in the minors as we wouldn't be able to bring anyone up because of the cap.

Thanks. I've been around for a while just never posted anything. I just like to read the opinions. I know the organization "wouldn't" persay, but theoretically would that work?

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All things considered, I'd rather see us pick up a veteran top-4 defenseman. Like I've said before, I think the holes on the blue line left by Lidstrom and Rafalski = our biggest source of suck.

Bogosian

Edler

Enstrom

Girardi

Et al.

If you're looking for a defenceman out of Winnipeg I'd probably avoid Bogosian and Enstrom. I think both are overrated and would have much too high of an asking price. They're both top 3-4 defencemen but with a top 1-2 price.

I'd prefer someone low-risk but proven in his own end. Mark Stuart comes to mind and is a UFA at the end of the season. Would still need to add an offensive defenceman though.

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Because he has negative value. No team is going to waste a couple million dollars on a player that won't crack the roster of most teams.

If you cross reference team in the league who are in playoff contention, with those that are middle of the pack in goal scoring, and who have a lot of cap space you're left with a handful of teams that COULD be willing to take a gamble on Sammy. Especially considering his salary will be prorated so they'll end up paying him less than his 3 million. Among these teams are Nashville, Ottawa, and Calgary. If you add in teams with significant injury troubles (admittedly I haven't looked for these) you've got another factor. Power play troubles...another. Overall young team...another.

I'm not saying that he'll definitely get picked up. But to say he has no value is more a commentary on your feelings about Sammy, and less about his potential worth. Particularly in a league which saw the New York Islander's trade for Tim Thomas specifically so he WOULDN'T play hockey. Value is relative to each specific club, and there are 29 others besides the Detroit Red Wings.

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Thanks. I've been around for a while just never posted anything. I just like to read the opinions. I know the organization "wouldn't" persay, but theoretically would that work?

As far as I know as long as you're hurt doing a hockey related activity(training/playing) for a team in the organization you're eligible for IR/LTIR.

To get cap relief though it has to be LTIR which means the injury must be deemed serious enough by a doctor to miss a minimum of 10 games and 24 days.

Even then we do not gain his salary back. We can simply exceed the cap by the pro-rated amount left. Until he is back.

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If you cross reference team in the league who are in playoff contention, with those that are middle of the pack in goal scoring, and who have a lot of cap space you're left with a handful of teams that COULD be willing to take a gamble on Sammy. Especially considering his salary will be prorated so they'll end up paying him less than his 3 million. Among these teams are Nashville, Ottawa, and Calgary. If you add in teams with significant injury troubles (admittedly I haven't looked for these) you've got another factor. Power play troubles...another. Overall young team...another.

I'm not saying that he'll definitely get picked up. But to say he has no value is more a commentary on your feelings about Sammy, and less about his potential worth. Particularly in a league which saw the New York Islander's trade for Tim Thomas specifically so he WOULDN'T play hockey. Value is relative to each specific club, and there are 29 others besides the Detroit Red Wings.

If there was a chance we could waive him and someone would pick him up, the Wings would've done that before trying to use their buyout on him. Furthermore, even if he did not have a no trade clause, no one would even give you a bag of pucks for him, this isn't anti wings bias, its just hockey sense.

Remember, even if its slightly under 3 million pro-rated, that is still real money that someone has to pay. The GM's have to answer to the owners and no owner in the league is going to be happy about bringing in a guy that will cost nearly $3MM in cash when there are guys that can do the same thing for far less.

If your point is that crazy s*** happens, yes I'll give you that. But I guess if some team needed to increase their cap hit ala Tim Thomas, they would've messaged Kenny by now and said hey waive the guy, we'll take him. So the fact that he hasn't been waived means no one has done that.

I guess at the end of the day this is sort of a pointless argument. But my end view is this...if Kenny had an inkling that someone would take the guy on waivers (and he'd know way better than we would) the guy would've been on waivers by now. But I believe that Sammy is as close to a guaranteed waiver clear as you can find in the league.

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To whoever said why not waive him, and if/when he doesn't get claimed no harm no foul.

Whether or not its believable that someone would want him, if you waive him and he goes unclaimed then the entire league KNOWS noone wants him.

If there is someone teetering on the edge thinking of maybe trading for him soon that would kill it.

Its naive to think gms don't talk, but not every gm would even pick up the phone if a certain team made a call.

Like Detroit's offer to Colombus for Nash.

You never show your cards.

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Sammy's not going anywhere.

If you're looking for a defenceman out of Winnipeg I'd probably avoid Bogosian and Enstrom. I think both are overrated and would have much too high of an asking price. They're both top 3-4 defencemen but with a top 1-2 price.

I'd prefer someone low-risk but proven in his own end. Mark Stuart comes to mind and is a UFA at the end of the season. Would still need to add an offensive defenceman though.

Well, to your first point - they may be overrated and overpriced, but, honestly, we need a high-end piece on the blue line, and I don't see us snagging anyone's #1 or #2. (No Girardi. *cries*) And isn't everyone sort of overrated or at least overpriced these days?

I've always liked Robyn Regehr, but he's old and slow. Michal Rozsíval was beastly against us a few months ago, but he's old and slow. I'm not saying all steady veterans are old and slow, I just can't think of any that'd do for us the kind of wonders we really need done.

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The Wings aren't enamored of Sammy. They're not keeping him here out of loyalty or respect. I get the distinct impression they don't want him here. He was benches early and kept there until last game. He is never talked about by Babcock.

I think they were going to buy him out to start the off-season, but he threatened an injury so they couldn't according to the rules. I'm betting that bit of b.s. soured Holland's attitude toward him. He is clearly here to finish out his contract since he can't be traded without approving of it--not that anyone would trade for him--and waiving him won't help.

So we're stuck with him because he has no intention of leaving. So he'll stay benched except for when Babcock needs an extra body.

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