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#21 The Secret

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

To me it would depend in the cost. He'd be a good Red Wing I think



#22 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:49 PM

For those in favor of trading for Spezza, can I ask why you'd rather have him than Kesler?  I'll give you a quick rundown of why Kesler makes WAY more sense than Spezza.

 

1.  He plays the wing as well as he plays center

2.  He's faster and more physical.

3.  He's demanded a trade, so chances are MUCH higher that he moves.  Spezza is purely speculation.

4.  He's cheaper.

5.  He's already said he'd wave his NTC to come here. 

6.  It would take fewer assets to get him because he's demanding a trade.

7.  He's under contract longer than Spezza.

8.  He's better defensively.

9.  He's younger.

 

I wanted to come up with another reason to make it an even ten, but I couldn't.  Still, it makes WAY more sense to go after Kesler IF you're going to trade for a forward.  But if you do that you HAVE to sign your top four defenseman or promote from within.  Can't trade for both a top four dman and top six forward...even with our deep talent pool that's too big of a blow.  One or the other but not both. 

 

Edit:  Ha ha!  Reason 10.)  Ottawa likely doesn't want to deal a star player to a division rival.  Kesler would be moving from one conference to another. 


Edited by kipwinger, 12 May 2014 - 03:19 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#23 Richdg

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:07 PM

Yes, no doubt Spezza would be an upgrade but we are talking about maybe 15-20 points and 3 years younger for a guy that can only be aquired through trade. Had Spezza been known to crash the net and make more use of his size, then I wouldnt hesitate one bit, but if you are looking for production Legwand offers very similar qualities for a fraction of the price imo.

Not even close. Legwand for his career is a .59 points per game guys and makes 5 million. Spezza is a 1 point per game guy and makes 7 million. 41% more points per game/season. He is a primer offensive guy. Solid defender as well. Legwand isn't that good on O. 



#24 Echolalia

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:59 PM

For those in favor of trading for Spezza, can I ask why you'd rather have him than Kesler?  I'll give you a quick rundown of why Kesler makes WAY more sense than Spezza.
 
1.  He plays the wing as well as he plays center
2.  He's faster and more physical.
3.  He's demanded a trade, so chances are MUCH higher that he moves.  Spezza is purely speculation.
4.  He's cheaper.
5.  He's already said he'd wave his NTC to come here. 
6.  It would take fewer assets to get him because he's demanding a trade.
7.  He's under contract longer than Spezza.
8.  He's better defensively.
9.  He's younger.
 
I wanted to come up with another reason to make it an even ten, but I couldn't.  Still, it makes WAY more sense to go after Kesler IF you're going to trade for a forward.  But if you do that you HAVE to sign your top four defenseman or promote from within.  Can't trade for both a top four dman and top six forward...even with our deep talent pool that's too big of a blow.  One or the other but not both. 


This is the first I'm hearing this. Where did you hear about #5 on your list?

#25 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:13 PM

This is the first I'm hearing this. Where did you hear about #5 on your list?

 

At the trade deadline there was much talk of it.  Supposedly he had a list of places he'd accept a trade to, and Detroit was on that list, with Pittsburgh and Anahiem purportedly offering the best packages. 

 

Here's at least one reputable source, but there were others at the time...http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ist-panic.html?

 

Edit:  And another: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=445193


Edited by kipwinger, 12 May 2014 - 03:15 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#26 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:28 PM

Please be aware of the subject manner of what you are posting and where it belongs on the forums. Trade rumors, speculations, discussion about players that may be traded or anything involving potential transactions belongs in the "Trade Rumor & Free Agent Talk" section of the forums. We have been moving a lot of posts lately and with offseason upcoming the rumors will continue to build and emerge, we want to keep the boards as organized and tight as possible. Thanks. 


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#27 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

Not even close. Legwand for his career is a .59 points per game guys and makes 5 million. Spezza is a 1 point per game guy and makes 7 million. 41% more points per game/season. He is a primer offensive guy. Solid defender as well. Legwand isn't that good on O. 

you were the one talking about 25%, but it doesnt matter. Legwand played in a much more controlled environment during his career. Again he is not as talented offensively as Spezza but I doubt he would get 5M from anyone and might even give a little hometown discount. Now Kesler is a much more interesting option than both.
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#28 Richdg

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:27 PM

Lets be clear about a few things.

1. Thee are tons of players in the NHL that if added, would make us a better team. Spezza makes us better, Kesler makes us better, Ovie makes us better, etc etc etc.

2. The RW's need to add 3-5 premium talents between now and the start of the 2015 season to become a SC contender.

3. Last season we where 16th on O and 16th on D. Both ens need to improve.

4. One thing about Kesler, Holland already passed on him once, then went out and overpaid for Legwand.



#29 DSM

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:35 PM

Lets be clear about a few things.

1. Thee are tons of players in the NHL that if added, would make us a better team. Spezza makes us better, Kesler makes us better, Ovie makes us better, etc etc etc.

2. The RW's need to add 3-5 premium talents between now and the start of the 2015 season to become a SC contender.

3. Last season we where 16th on O and 16th on D. Both ens need to improve.

4. One thing about Kesler, Holland already passed on him once, then went out and overpaid for Legwand.

 

Wrong.

 

I don't have time to look around for it, but IIRC it was reported that Holland did express interest in Kesler, but was shot down by (now jobless...) Mike Gillis for not having the assets he wanted in return. Apparently what Gillis wanted most was a young, but established #2 center capable of stepping in right away and be around for a few years. The Red Wings didn't have a center that fit the bill.

 

As far as overpayment, if you think Legwand was overpaid for, getting Kesler would've required ANY team to overpay.

 

As far as Spezza goes, I would pass. While he's a great player, the Red Wings don't need another playmaker up front. They need finishers for the ones they already have. Plus, the Wings would have to cough up some decent assets to compete with other trade happy teams that will be willing to overpay for him. On a final note, it sounds as if the Senators want to send him West anyway.

 

At the same token, you're whining about overpayment while talking about a player who would essentially be a one season rental. A one season rental that would cost the Red Wings some valuable assets. How many here will be screaming "overpayment" if like Legwand, Spezza doesn't pan out here and becomes a UFA next summer after coughing up what would likely be a combination of 1st rounders(s) and good prospects to Ottawa for him?

 

If the Red Wings really want Spezza, wait till he becomes a UFA next summer.


Edited by DSM, 15 May 2014 - 04:22 PM.


#30 Richdg

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

Spezza-like all of the great players in the league will never become a UFA. Ott is moving him because they are cash strapped. We are not. We can easily resign him to a 4-5 year extension. Now why would Spezza want to sign? What is his number and why does he wear it?

BTW guys that score 30 goals in multiple seasons are premier scorers, which Spezza has done several times (4).

 

Yes Holland had interest in Kelser, then decided not to pay the price to get him. That is passing on a player. Now we have no idea of what players were truely involved, but he did pass on the deal.



#31 DSM

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:31 PM

Spezza-like all of the great players in the league will never become a UFA. Ott is moving him because they are cash strapped. We are not. We can easily resign him to a 4-5 year extension. Now why would Spezza want to sign? What is his number and why does he wear it?
BTW guys that score 30 goals in multiple seasons are premier scorers, which Spezza has done several times (4).
 
Yes Holland had interest in Kelser, then decided not to pay the price to get him. That is passing on a player. Now we have no idea of what players were truely involved, but he did pass on the deal.


I looked back and found a report from Helen St. James that said Gillis wanted an established good young player (preferably a center), a top prospect and a 1st rounder in exchange for Kesler. She said it likely would've taken Tatar/Nyquist, Mantha and a 1st to make it happen. That's a lot of future to mortgage to get a 2nd line center for a team that was on the playoff bubble. Can't really toss Holland under the bus for not getting him, since no other GM was able to...

#32 Richdg

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:50 PM

Again we have no idea which players were offered or asked for. Just an opinion of a writer. Every year we hear of players available that "we can't afford" and then they get moved later for less than we thought. Nash comes to mind. Yet Holland seems to over overpay when he does make a deal: Legwand and Quincey come to mind. Maybe he just isn't good at negotiations. Who knows.

Now back to some of the players being discussed. Would Kesler be an upgrade for us? Yes. He would be our 3rd best forward the day he arrived. Maybe more like tied for second. The same is true of Spezza. He is a better player than every forward currently on our team not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Both Kesler and Spezza are from a numbers stand point in the same class as Datsyuk and Zetterberg.



#33 Euro_Twins

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:45 PM

Again we have no idea which players were offered or asked for. Just an opinion of a writer. Every year we hear of players available that "we can't afford" and then they get moved later for less than we thought. Nash comes to mind. Yet Holland seems to over overpay when he does make a deal: Legwand and Quincey come to mind. Maybe he just isn't good at negotiations. Who knows.

Now back to some of the players being discussed. Would Kesler be an upgrade for us? Yes. He would be our 3rd best forward the day he arrived. Maybe more like tied for second. The same is true of Spezza. He is a better player than every forward currently on our team not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Both Kesler and Spezza are from a numbers stand point in the same class as Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

A lazy player, reminiscent of what everyone hates about Franzen, and his production has completely fallen off the map, everyone would be calling for Hollands head if he had got him. I have to deal with enough people around here who say every other post how much franzen sucks, i would shoot myself if i had to hear about franzen AND nash



#34 number9

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:30 AM

 

A lazy player, reminiscent of what everyone hates about Franzen, and his production has completely fallen off the map, everyone would be calling for Hollands head if he had got him. I have to deal with enough people around here who say every other post how much franzen sucks, i would shoot myself if i had to hear about franzen AND nash

Nash has 15 pts in 31 playoff games (48.3%). Franzen has 81 pts in 107 playoff games (75.7%). Nash is totally worth another 2 million and the roster spot that takes up. FOOL.



#35 Euro_Twins

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:20 PM

Nash has 15 pts in 31 playoff games (48.3%). Franzen has 81 pts in 107 playoff games (75.7%). Nash is totally worth another 2 million and the roster spot that takes up. FOOL.


I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not since you called me a fool...

#36 number9

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:24 PM

I was drunk and agreeable lol

#37 Richdg

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:25 PM

When Nash was being moved, nearly everyone on this very forum was hoping we got him. I was not one of those however. At the time of the trade he was and is a great goal scorer. The Rangers gave far less for him than we offered-which is the point I was making. For whatever the reasons a lot of players in all sports fail in NY.

 

ET as for 9 calling you a fool, don't worry. He just likes to troll. If a post was up about the sun rising in the East, he was disagree and claim it was in the West.



#38 number9

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:25 AM

When Nash was being moved, nearly everyone on this very forum was hoping we got him. I was not one of those however. At the time of the trade he was and is a great goal scorer. The Rangers gave far less for him than we offered-which is the point I was making. For whatever the reasons a lot of players in all sports fail in NY.
 
ET as for 9 calling you a fool, don't worry. He just likes to troll. If a post was up about the sun rising in the East, he was disagree and claim it was in the West.


"ET" I hope ur getting the same laugh out of this that I am lol

#39 frankgrimes

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:48 AM

Well with the Canucks doing a sweep (firing Gillis and Tortarella) Kesler might not even be willing to waive his NTC anymore. But man Vancouver is one of the top 3 pressure markets.


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