GDT 10/21 GDT : Red Wings at Edmonton Oilers, 9:30 EST

[Bill Berzeench 310]

You mean the kid that has zero games of NHL experience and 1 assist in 5 games so far in the AHL? You want to call him up and put him in the top 6?

Absolutely. He's fast.

[kipwinger 8,772]

Absolutely. He's fast.

I didn't say fast. I said big. A digger. Nyquist is fast. Tatar is fast. Larkin is fast. But when you put two of those guys together you have a line that can't win puck battles or play on the inside.

I'm talking about a Justin Abdelkader, Troy Brouwer, Drew Stafford type of guy. Not exactly slow, but their value isn't in being fast, it's in being big(ish) and tough.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I didn't say fast. I said big. A digger. Nyquist is fast. Tatar is fast. Larkin is fast. But when you put two of those guys together you have a line that can't win puck battles or play on the inside.

I'm talking about a Justin Abdelkader, Troy Brouwer, Drew Stafford type of guy. Not exactly slow, but their value isn't in being fast, it's in being big(ish) and tough.

I hear you. Problem is these guys dont grow on trees. Athanasiou is 6'2", 190 lbs right now. He should fill out to 205 or so. He hits with his speed, though. Have you watched him?

[krsmith17 7,191]

To be fair, you also don't need to be big to win puck battles. It doesn't hurt, but it's not a necessity. Tenacity goes a long way in coming out of the corners with pucks. Helm is a good digger / puck hound, and in the same way, I believe Athanasiou will be good at that as well. AA is relatively big (6'2", 200lbs) and doesn't shy away from the physical play. In saying that, I don't think he's quite ready. Give him another year in Grand Rapids and he will be ready to go to start next season in Detroit.

[kipwinger 8,772]

I hear you. Problem is these guys dont grow on trees. Athanasiou is 6'2", 190 lbs right now. He should fill out to 205 or so. He hits with his speed, though. Have you watched him?

I've watched him a lot. And it pains me to have these discussions with you because it always seems like I'm anti-Athanasiou. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Prior to this season I actually had him higher than Larkin in my evaluation of the prospects (clearly I was wrong lol). I really, really, like AA's game.

But as I've said, I think that kid has top six center potential. And I want to see the team be very careful in developing him toward that goal. I don't want to see his development derailed by putting him in a position he has no long term future playing. He needs to be "the guy" on a team, an everyday scoring threat. Not a complementary player.

If we need a banger, crasher, type, we can get one. I'd look to teams that started badly and see what's to be had. We've got tradeable assets, valuable ones. Lets see what we can do with them. I'd be looking to exploit Columbus right now if I were Ken Holland. Boone Jenner is the kind of guy that would help us, and I'm sure they'd be amenable to the right offer given their defensive needs.

Edited October 23, 2015 by kipwinger

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I've watched him a lot. And it pains me to have these discussions with you because it always seems like I'm anti-Athanasiou. Which couldn't be further from the truth. Prior to this season I actually had him higher than Larkin in my evaluation of the prospects (clearly I was wrong lol). I really, really, like AA's game.

But as I've said, I think that kid has top six center potential. And I want to see the team be very careful in developing him toward that goal. I don't want to see his development derailed by putting him in a position he has no long term future playing. He needs to be "the guy" on a team, an everyday scoring threat. Not a complementary player.

If we need a banger, crasher, type, we can get one. I'd look to teams that started badly and see what's to be had. We've got tradeable assets, valuable ones. Lets see what we can do with them. I'd be looking to exploit Columbus right now if I were Ken Holland. Boone Jenner is the kind of guy that would help us, and I'm sure they'd be amenable to the right offer given their defensive needs.

I like your line of thought. I just think he could help us now. Maybe im wrong.

[kipwinger 8,772]

I like your line of thought. I just think he could help us now. Maybe im wrong.

If we had an injury at 3rd line center, and needed a replacement, I'd be beating the drum for the kid. But not as a top six complimentary winger. He's REALLYgood. But I've never been a believer that any player is just as suitable for a role as any other player. I'm a firm believer, however, in specialization. If your centers are bad, bring in better centers (Athanasiou). If your wingers are bad, find better wingers.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

If we had an injury at 3rd line center, and needed a replacement, I'd be beating the drum for the kid. But not as a top six complimentary winger. He's REALLYgood. But I've never been a believer that any player is just as suitable for a role as any other player. I'm a firm believer, however, in specialization. If your centers are bad, bring in better centers (Athanasiou). If your wingers are bad, find better wingers.

I differ from you there a bit. I feel like a good coach should be able to take the 12 best forwards a team has and mold 4 lines out of them. I dont think we need to have a "grind line" so to speak. And I dont think winger/center really matters. I think Glendening-Helm-Athanasiou would light it up after 20-30 games together. All centers.

[kipwinger 8,772]

I differ from you there a bit. I feel like a good coach should be able to take the 12 best forwards a team has and mold 4 lines out of them. I dont think we need to have a "grind line" so to speak. And I dont think winger/center really matters. I think Glendening-Helm-Athanasiou would light it up after 20-30 games together. All centers.

Right, but Athanasiou isn't just some scrub center. He's a future top guy. You don't screw with his development like that. I agree that he can be an effective fourth line winger now. Or he can be an effective second line center in a year or two. But probably not both. Name a single other quality top center who started out on their teams' fourth line? None. So there's probably something to it.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Right, but Athanasiou isn't just some scrub center. He's a future top guy. You don't screw with his development like that. I agree that he can be an effective fourth line winger now. Or he can be an effective second line center in a year or two. But probably not both. Name a single other quality top center who started out on their teams' fourth line? None. So there's probably something to it.

I cant, brother! It's a good point. The only thing I can say back is think outside the box. Do we really have any players other than Miller that you could call a 4th liner always? Jurco goes from bench to 1st line to 4th line to 2nd line to bench again. A lot of our forwards travel up and down the 1st 3 lines, as well. I feel like if we play our top 12 players, we dont really need to classify each line in rank. Instead, just roll the 4 lines. The ice times will vary, sure. So you will be able to tell who's getting top minutes and rank them that way. But I dont think we need to have role players who can only do a few things like Miller, Andersson, and Ferraro. I think we need the best 12 forwards in our system to do all things as best they can. Remember when Hank and Dats were killing penalties with Helm and Franzen? Our pk was SICK back then. Because we had our best players doing all things.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

Richards instantly looks better with Zetterberg and Abdlekader. I think it's time to let Larkin centre his own line.

who wouldn't look good with z and abby

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

who wouldn't look good with z and abby

Dan.

Cleary.

[kickazz 5,459]

Dan.

Cleary.

Lol didn't Dan Cleary score career high goals when he was Zetterberg's wing ?

No wait maybe it was with Helm.

Edited October 24, 2015 by kickazz