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shocky2002

Rate Yzerman, Lidstrom and Zetterberg's leadership during their runs as C's

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9 minutes ago, kliq said:

That's essentially the same thing I said, most captain are judged by standings (ie. winning). My thing is this, if Toews gets injured, do I think they lose a step? I really dont think so with Keith, Seabrook, and Kane.

They would be awesome still.  But I dont think they win without Toews.  He's the glue to that team.

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1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

They would be awesome still.  But I dont think they win without Toews.  He's the glue to that team.

But this is my point, there is no way to measure "glue". We are all just guessing.

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15 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would anyone argue Z is in the bottom half of current NHL captains?

Nope. It's not his fault that Holland let the team go to s***, but it doesn't really seem like he can motivate all the players to head out there flying, play a full 60, and do whatever's needed to win. Or whatever's needed to at least have a respectable showing.

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Granted nobody of us is in the locker-room and knows what's going on but to me it's simple:

Stevie (this guy played on one leg and still dominated) >> Perfect Human (Babs right hand) >>>>>>>> Z other than the occasional "we're not going to rebuild as long as I'm here and we are going to make the playoffs" comments I haven't seen/heard the same qualities the aforementioned players brought to the table. Nothing against Z awesome player but I don't think he is the same ballpark as the other 2 were. Z strike me as a more internally outspoken type of leader while the captain and perfect human did let their actions speak louder than words and comments.

Again not a knock against Z he simply was next in line personally I would have prefered Pasha as the next one.

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41 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Granted nobody of us is in the locker-room and knows what's going on but to me it's simple:

Stevie (this guy played on one leg and still dominated) >> Perfect Human (Babs right hand) >>>>>>>> Z other than the occasional "we're not going to rebuild as long as I'm here and we are going to make the playoffs" comments I haven't seen/heard the same qualities the aforementioned players brought to the table. Nothing against Z awesome player but I don't think he is the same ballpark as the other 2 were. Z strike me as a more internally outspoken type of leader while the captain and perfect human did let their actions speak louder than words and comments.

Again not a knock against Z he simply was next in line personally I would have prefered Pasha as the next one.

Like I said earlier the only people who can actually answer this question are Franzen, Cleary, and Kronwall. What people are basically doing is saying the best leader is the guy who had the best team.

I have to ask Frank....why do you call Lidstrom "The Perfect Human"?

 

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1 hour ago, kliq said:

Like I said earlier the only people who can actually answer this question are Franzen, Cleary, and Kronwall. What people are basically doing is saying the best leader is the guy who had the best team.

I have to ask Frank....why do you call Lidstrom "The Perfect Human"?

 

Like I said it's just speculation but from what I've read and how people are raving about Yzerman, even Mr. I saying the guy has the winged wheel tatooed on his chest just speaks volumes about the type of captain this guy was.

As far as Lids well that's his nickname and frankly he more than deserved it, he made playing defense look so incredible easy.

Of course Z doesn't have much help but I think he can't get others to play with the same internal never surrender fire that he has and that's also a quality of a captain.

Edited by frankgrimes

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26 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Like I said it's just speculation but from what I've read and how people are raving about Yzerman, even Mr. I saying the guy has the winged wheel tatooed on his chest just speaks volumes about the type of captain this guy was.

As far as Lids well that's his nickname and frankly he more than deserved it, he made playing defense look so incredible easy.

Of course Z doesn't have much help but I think he can't get others to play with the same internal never surrender fire that he has and that's also a quality of a captain.

From the stories, more then likely Yzerman was the best. Between Lidstrom and Zetterberg though, I think most pick Lidstrom because he was on better teams.

Huh, I didnt know that was actually a thing. Wierd nickname, but I googled it and you are right.

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Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership

But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 

And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...

"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."

I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership

But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 

And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...

"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."

I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

By the sounds of this, it likely goes....1) Yzerman, 2) Zetterberg, 3) Lidstrom.

But because we won a cup in 2008 and were a better team, fans incorrectly call Lidstrom a better leader then Zetterberg.

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Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership
But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 
And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...
"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."
I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 


If that's true then I agree it's 1. Y 2. Z and 3. perfect human

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so, question, if it's fair to say that if The Red Wings(TM) make he playoffs, it'll be because Zetterberg willed them in and carried them, ya?

So if they fail to make the playoffs is it because he didn't carry them enough or will hard enough or is it because of a bad team? You would think the excuse goes both ways...not knocking on Z, but it is a fair question.

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4 hours ago, kickazz said:

Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership

But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 

And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...

"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."

I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

I saw it with my own eyes.  Yzerman playing on one leg, playing with an alien eyeball, playing while cut.  The guy was a gamer.  Love Stevie.

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On 3/6/2017 at 0:49 PM, LeftWinger said:

so, question, if it's fair to say that if The Red Wings(TM) make he playoffs, it'll be because Zetterberg willed them in and carried them, ya?

So if they fail to make the playoffs is it because he didn't carry them enough or will hard enough or is it because of a bad team? You would think the excuse goes both ways...not knocking on Z, but it is a fair question.

Do you expect one person to win 17 out of the 19 games all by himself? Serious question. 

You would be the only one to make a twisted narrative like that. The entire hockey world is raving Zetterberg right now, coaches, players, journalists, social media. 

Be careful, you don't want people start blaming Osgood for not winning the 2009 cup and allowing those game 7 goals, nor would you want people to start blaming Fedorov for not going far in 99 playoffs since he only scored 1 goal. And I know you always rave about Osgood and Fedorov. 

Edited by kickazz

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11 hours ago, kickazz said:

Do you expect one person to win 17 out of the 19 games all by himself? Serious question. 

You would be the only one to make a twisted narrative like that. The entire hockey world is raving Zetterberg right now, coaches, players, journalists, social media. 

Be careful, you don't want people start blaming Osgood for not winning the 2009 cup and allowing those game 7 goals, nor would you want people to start blaming Fedorov for not going far in 99 playoffs since he only scored 1 goal. And I know you always rave about Osgood and Fedorov. 

My point is, if we somehow make the playoffs, those raving people are going to credit Z for carrying the team, but wouldn't it work both ways? Or do we miss the playoffs and it's on 22 other players? It's a team thing,  either way. Nobody wills a team into the playoffs. Yzerman couldn't will a three-peat in 99, Lidstrom couldn't will back to back in 09. If we somehow made the playoffs it's because of the team getting some s*** together, we're missing the playoffs because multiple players who are paid to score goals and stop goals and scoring chanceshave sucked. And coaching and line decisions have been atrocious. None of which has much to do with Z. He can't will the others and he can't play for them. He seems to be trying, but others just aren't good enough to help him. And you remove your hate glasses for a minute, you'll see that I am complimenting Z.

Edited by LeftWinger

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11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

My point is, if we somehow make the playoffs, those raving people are going to credit Z for carrying the team, but wouldn't it work both ways? Or do we miss the playoffs and it's on 22 other players? It's a team thing,  either way. Nobody wills a team into the playoffs. Yzerman couldn't will a three-peat in 99, Lidstrom couldn't will back to back in 09. If we somehow made the playoffs it's because of the team getting some s*** together, we're missing the playoffs because multiple players who are paid to score goals and stop goals and scoring chanceshave sucked. And coaching and line decisions have been atrocious. None of which has much to do with Z. He can't will the others and he can't play for them. He seems to be trying, but others just aren't good enough to help him. And you remove your hate glasses for a minute, you'll see that I am complimenting Z.

The point that Blashill and others (Redmond, Daniels, etc) are making about Zetterberg "willing the team" into the playoffs in the past is that he has the ability to elevate his game above his limits and trying his best. As in he's putting all his effort in and more. He's not SUPPOSED to be doing that. It's unnatural for a 36 year old player (with his injury history) to be scoring and playing like he is right now. Basically Zetterberg is OVERPERFORMING for his age. That's where the whole narrative of "willing the team" comes in, especially now. As in, the player isn't technically physically supposed to be able to do all this but the mind/ will is helping him to keep pushing himself to score at the rate he is. 

It's like having a runners high after running the first 2 miles. 

So no, the argument wouldn't necessarily work the other way because if he doesn't will the team to the playoffs, that would be the normality; it's expected. No one player can do it. But if he somehow does it, that's abnormal, unusual, spectacular. The thing that's being said about Z is that he's done it in the past with some help; (2013 for instance he turned into a beast the last 10 games or so). Also had lots of help from Howard who stood strong in net. . But this time he's all alone without any help and THAT'S what's making all these people impressed. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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Ya'll are crazy for rating Z so low. 

Yzerman - 10

Zetterberg - 10

Lidstrom - 8

Y and Z were both scorers whose bodies broke down later in their careers and they still battled harder than anybody else on the ice. Yzerman had many losing seasons early on, but at that point the team wasn't really expected to do much. Once the team started winning the pressure was to win cups with stacked teams, not to continue a playoff tradition with a poor team. Everyone in the hockey community but you jokers sings Zetterberg's praises for the effort he puts in every night and the example that he makes. 

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