2020 Offseason

[mackel 768]

23 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You put Kotkaniemi and Hayton above Zadina despite the fact that Zadina has better numbers.

You tried your best to explain Kotkaniemi. Back up why Hayton should be above him.

Yeah. Because he was injured for part of it. Just like Kotka was. A false equivalency would be excusing poor numbers because of injury for one player (Kotkaniemi) and ignoring it for another players numbers (Zadina). 

And even with his injury this season, Zadina still outperformed Kotka's healthy season on a far better team. Another fact you choose to ignore.

Kot was a over year younger, playing center and still on a poor team.  Ie. he was in the NHL when Zadina was a stick boy in the AHL.

I said I think Hayton will follow the same path, I didn't declare he was better... take your homer bias and shelve it.

 

[Akakabuto 1,863]

https://www.tsn.ca/expect-the-toronto-maple-leafs-to-hunt-for-more-ltir-contracts-1.1475747

This article mentions the possibility of the leafs picking up Z’s contract. All speculation but still..

I don’t know how I would feel about that. I know Hank would not even set foot in Ontario and that this is just a paper move but it just feels wrong. Even if the Wings get a prospect in return. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Akakabuto

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 5/10/2020 at 4:39 PM, mackel said:

No way he jumps to 5... please play again

Yes. You are saying that Hayton is better. For Zadina to finish 5th in a redraft, he would have to finish behind Dahlin, Svech, Hughes, and Tkachuk, but ahead of Kotkaniemi and Hayton. To which your response was the above. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

23 hours ago, mackel said:

Kot was a over year younger, playing center and still on a poor team.  Ie. he was in the NHL when Zadina was a stick boy in the AHL.

I said I think Hayton will follow the same path, I didn't declare he was better... take your homer bias and shelve it.

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/MTL/2019_games.html

Canadiens finished 4th in the Atlantic his first season. 9th in the Conference. Last team to be eliminated from the playoffs. 44 wins.

This year's Wings were dead last in the league and were on pace to finish with less than half as many wins.

So yeah. 2 completely different teams in terms of overall talent and skill.

And thinking Zadina is currently better than Kotkaniemi and Hayton doesnt make me a homer. It makes the stats a homer.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

https://www.tsn.ca/expect-the-toronto-maple-leafs-to-hunt-for-more-ltir-contracts-1.1475747

This article mentions the possibility of the leafs picking up Z’s contract. All speculation but still..

I don’t know how I would feel about that. I know Hank would not even set foot in Ontario and that this is just a paper move but it just feels wrong. Even if the Wings get a prospect in return. 

OMG. I had no idea that Gaborik and Hossa were still under contract. Lol.

I wouldnt mind trading Z's contract for a draft pick. I don't think SY would do it tho. I cant see the Captain trading another one away without his blessing. Even then, I dont think he does it.

Isn't there some kind of penalty if they trade his contract away too?

[mackel 768]

18 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes. You are saying that Hayton is better. For Zadina to finish 5th in a redraft, he would have to finish behind Dahlin, Svech, Hughes, and Tkachuk, but ahead of Kotkaniemi and Hayton. To which your response was the above. 

Hot tip I didn't write the article...  they writers at the Hockey News did so your beef is with them... Let's see how that goes for ya.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:11 PM, krsmith17 said:

CRL: " Zadina is a bust"...

CRL: "Well, not really a bust per se, but in the mold of a Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar"...

CRL: "Zadina's potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there"...

Nope, not backpedaling at all...

Good lord ur dense. In a paragraph about Zadina's defense with a comparison to Hossa you picked up that I think Zadina is Hossa... lol You're like Eva Unit Zero. Fire power Hudler! Fire Power Zadina! Both future 1A wingers fersure dude. The next Kucherov.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Good lord ur dense. In a paragraph about Zadina's defense with a comparison to Hossa you picked up that I think Zadina is Hossa... lol You're like Eva Unit Zero. Fire power Hudler! Fire Power Zadina! Both future 1A wingers fersure dude. The next Kucherov.

CRL: "Zadina's potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there"...

CRL: "He's not going to literally turn into Marian Hossa... idiot. I was only talking about his defensive play"...

... sure...

Keep backpedaling bud...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

CRL: "Zadina's potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there"...

CRL: "He's not going to literally turn into Marian Hossa... idiot. I was only talking about his defensive play"...

... sure...

Keep backpedaling bud...

You are an idiot. This is a blatant straw man (continued). The sad part is you're not only twisting the argument, you don't even seem to grasp it. Sad.

Anyway I love how when I critique Zadina's play in 2018/19 all the Zadina shills go "WHOA WHOA WHOA IT'S TOO SOON"

*Zadina plays 28 games in 2020*: "Clearly Zadina has proved he's bound for greatness"

You guys have little to no understanding of Zadina's game. And you don't care. You'll use whatever argument you can to shill for your big time snipey boy, including fallacy and blatant inconsistency of thought.

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You are an idiot. This is a blatant straw man (continued). The sad part is you're not only twisting the argument, you don't even seem to grasp it. Sad.

Anyway I love how when I critique Zadina's play in 2018/19 all the Zadina shills go "WHOA WHOA WHOA IT'S TOO SOON"

*Zadina plays 28 games in 2020*: "Clearly Zadina has proved he's bound for greatness"

You guys have little to no understanding of Zadina's game. And you don't care. You'll use whatever argument you can to shill for your big time snipey boy, including fallacy and blatant inconsistency of thought.

But when he turns into Hossa will he also get his equipment allergy?

[mackel 768]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You are an idiot. This is a blatant straw man (continued). The sad part is you're not only twisting the argument, you don't even seem to grasp it. Sad.

Anyway I love how when I critique Zadina's play in 2018/19 all the Zadina shills go "WHOA WHOA WHOA IT'S TOO SOON"

*Zadina plays 28 games in 2020*: "Clearly Zadina has proved he's bound for greatness"

You guys have little to no understanding of Zadina's game. And you don't care. You'll use whatever argument you can to shill for your big time snipey boy, including fallacy and blatant inconsistency of thought.

Glad you're back... the selective stat and straw man crowd have only had one target in your absence...  but I've been holding the fort against stupid in your absence.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You are an idiot. This is a blatant straw man (continued). The sad part is you're not only twisting the argument, you don't even seem to grasp it. Sad.

Anyway I love how when I critique Zadina's play in 2018/19 all the Zadina shills go "WHOA WHOA WHOA IT'S TOO SOON"

*Zadina plays 28 games in 2020*: "Clearly Zadina has proved he's bound for greatness"

You guys have little to no understanding of Zadina's game. And you don't care. You'll use whatever argument you can to shill for your big time snipey boy, including fallacy and blatant inconsistency of thought.

LOL. You seem upset...

No one is strawmanning what you said. It's literally what you said. Word for word...

The only people making any real concrete projections on Zadina are those that are saying he's a "bust". Myself and others have said that he will be a top six winger, likely better than a Tatar, potentially in the mold of a Hossa, and unlikely but possible, if everything goes right, a Kucherov lite.

Yeah, no one understands Zadina's game, except CRL and mackel... LOL

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL. You seem upset...

No one is strawmanning what you said. It's literally what you said. Word for word...

The only people making any real concrete projections on Zadina are those that are saying he's a "bust". Myself and others have said that he will be a top six winger, likely better than a Tatar, potentially in the mold of a Hossa, and unlikely but possible, if everything goes right, a Kucherov lite.

Yeah, no one understands Zadina's game, except CRL and mackel... LOL

And It's a great word for word quote taken out of context. Congratulations.
I do get upset when instead of discussing hockey I have argue semantics with a moron.

You don't understand Zadina's game. You have nothing of substance to say about his game beside "he gud. source: trust me dude".

34 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

But when he turns into Hossa will he also get his equipment allergy?

I used Hossa only because Hossa is regarded as a superb defensive winger. I would use a different player but none jump to mind. Most superb defensive forwards end up at center.

I have praised Zadina's defense since 2018, but now suddenly when I do it in 2020 it's back peddling.... christ. This is why no one trusts Zadina shills, and the collective Red Wings community is slowly shifting into the same camp as Mackel and I. Zadina taint sniffers, what do you love about his defensive game? I'll tell what you should love about it:

• Zadina back checks hard, rarely is he caught in a lazy scenario where he's not moving his feet to provide D
• Zadina's stick work on defense is impressive. One would think the shills would be smart enough to recognize this and forward it as proof of his greatness, yet you don't... His ability to pick-pocket, stick check, or disrupt a pass on D is extremely good. Borderline Datysukian in potential (OMG HE THINKS ZADINA IS DATSYUK NOW MORE BACK PEDDLING!!).

What you shouldn't like about Zadina's D game:

• Despite his back-checking and stick-work Zadina has no where near the situational awareness of Hossa or Datsyuk. This limits his ability to fully realize these two skills and put them to use.
• Skating still needs work

This is what I talk about when I say Zadina shills have no substance. If you like him so much tell me why. I'm purposefully leaving his offfensive skills untouched and unmentioned here so you can have the oppurtunity to point out his strengths and weaknesses in a substantive manner. I just don't expect anyone will since your understanding of his game doesn't transcend farther than "Zadina drafted high. Scored 15 pts in 28 games" Wow clearly he's the next Hossa/Kucherov guys...

Edited May 15, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

41 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And It's a great word for word quote taken out of context. Congratulations.
I do get upset when instead of discussing hockey I have argue semantics with a moron.

You don't understand Zadina's game. You have nothing of substance to say about his game beside "he gud. source: trust me dude".

LOL the only moron is anyone that sees a 20 year old, 6th overall pick, put up over a point per game in the NHL in his rookie season, and doesn't backpedal on his original "Zadina is a bust" comments...

I guess that word "bust" I'm "taking out of context" as well, am I?

I don't need to say anything about Zadina's game. His play and production is speaking for itself. "He real gud".

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL the only moron is anyone that sees a 20 year old, 6th overall pick, put up over a point per game in the NHL in his rookie season, and doesn't backpedal on his original "Zadina is a bust" comments...

Zadina has never put up over a point per game in the NHL. Not in his rookie season. Not in his sophomore season. Not in the AHL.

You = moron

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I guess that word "bust" I'm "taking out of context" as well, am I?

It's alarming how many times I've had to spell this out for you. I called Zadina a bust in November 2018. When everyone flipped out I explained that I saw him as the next coming of Hudler, explained why, and why at 6th overall that would be a bust to me. Yet you continue not understand that simple explanation even 2 years later. And you'll likely continue not to grasp this time as well...

You = moron

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't need to say anything about Zadina's game. His play and production is speaking for itself. "He real gud".

Thanks for proving my point

Now run along and play in the sandbox Eva, so the adults can talk the substance of Zadina's play. Thank you.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Zadina has never put up over a point per game in the NHL. Not in his rookie season. Not in his sophomore season. Not in the AHL.

Over *half* a point per game. My bad.

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's alarming how many times I've had to spell this out for you. I called Zadina a bust in November 2018. When everyone flipped out I explained that I saw him as the next coming of Hudler, explained why, and why at 6th overall that would be a bust to me. Yet you continue not understand that simple explanation even 2 years later. And you'll likely continue not to grasp this time as well...

So you're saying Zadina is not a bust? Got it.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

Over *half* a point per game. My bad.

Lol nice back-peddling

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So you're saying Zadina is not a bust? Got it.

Only took you 2 years to grasp that he's a bust relative to his draft position. Took you like 5 on Brendan Smith. You're showing real progress.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Lol nice back-peddling

Stop taking what I meant to say out of context...

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Only took you 2 years to grasp that he's a bust relative to his draft position. Took you like 5 on Brendan Smith. You're showing real progress.

Unfortunately, you'll never grasp the real definition of a bust...

Brendan Smith was not a bust, relative to draft position. How many late 1st round picks do you expect to play 500+ (and counting) games in the NHL?

Filip Zadina has not been / will not be a bust, relative to draft position. 

You = moron

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Stop taking what I meant to say out of context...

There's no context to factually incorrect information. Again Eva, plz return to the sandbox so adults can talk.

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Unfortunately, you'll never grasp the real definition of a bust...

Brendan Smith was not a bust, relative to draft position. How many late 1st round picks do you expect to play 500+ (and counting) games in the NHL?

Filip Zadina has not been / will not be a bust, relative to draft position. 

You = moron

And there you have it folks, he didn't grasp it again lol. And I so hoped you were getting it this time...

Please tell me about "the real definition of a bust". I'm looking at merrian-webster but it doesn't have a bust definition pertaining to hockey prospects. I suspect what you mean by "real definition of a bust" is krsmith17's definition of a bust.

And as much as I'd love to debate "what the real definition of a bust" is as it pertains to the hockey community, the topic seems extremely boring and overly subjective. In lieu I will use bust how I want and if you need explanation feel free to ask. 

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

But when he turns into Hossa will he also get his equipment allergy?

Depends on his age vs the size of his contract.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There's no context to factually incorrect information. Again Eva, plz return to the sandbox so adults can talk.

Left out one word there bud. We both know you know I meant *half* a point per game. But whatever helps you win the argument...

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And there you have it folks, he didn't grasp it again lol. And I so hoped you were getting it this time...

Please tell me about "the real definition of a bust". I'm looking at merrian-webster but it doesn't have a bust definition pertaining to hockey prospects. I suspect what you mean by "real definition of a bust" is krsmith17's definition of a bust.

And as much as I'd love to debate "what the real definition of a bust" is as it pertains to the hockey community, the topic seems extremely boring and overly subjective. In lieu I will use bust how I want and if you need explanation feel free to ask. 

There's nothing to grasp. There is nothing in Zadina's game that would indicate that he will be a bust, by anyone's definition, other than morons...

At least it makes a little bit of sense now. You consider a player that was drafted 13 years ago, 27th overall, still playing in the league, with over 500 games played to be a "bust". You also consider a top six winger, drafted 6th overall to be a bust.

I think Zadina will be an "all-star". My definition may be drastically different than yours though...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There's no context to factually incorrect information. Again Eva, plz return to the sandbox so adults can talk.

And there you have it folks, he didn't grasp it again lol. And I so hoped you were getting it this time...

Please tell me about "the real definition of a bust". I'm looking at merrian-webster but it doesn't have a bust definition pertaining to hockey prospects. I suspect what you mean by "real definition of a bust" is krsmith17's definition of a bust.

And as much as I'd love to debate "what the real definition of a bust" is as it pertains to the hockey community, the topic seems extremely boring and overly subjective. In lieu I will use bust how I want and if you need explanation feel free to ask. 

 

Patrik Stefan = bust

Sam Gagner = not a bust

Zadina>Gagner

Edited May 15, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

Left out one word there bud. We both know you know I meant *half* a point per game. But whatever helps you win the argument...

Nice back peddling. Your exact quote word for word was: "put up over a point per game in the NHL in his rookie season"

You didn't take my point into context at all. Tell me why now I should extend you the courtesy?

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

There's nothing to grasp. There is nothing in Zadina's game that would indicate that he will be a bust, by anyone's definition, other than morons..

Real sound argument bud. He's not a bust cause I say so, and anyone who disagrees with me is a moron. I mean I say you have no substance behind your opinions and you prove me my point. Thanks I guess.

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Zadina will be an "all-star". My definition may be drastically different than yours though...

No it really won't. All-stars are players who go to the all-star game. There's zero room for interpretation. Good lord this is getting sad. Plz let the adults talk.

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Patrik Stefan = bust

Sam Gagner = not a bust

I've argued that Zadina will be a bust relative to draft position since day 1. Sam Gagner was/is in the same boat. You all just get ur panties in a bunch every-time I use the word bust. No matter how I use it. And you smooth brains still haven't figured out that guys like Mackel use this fact to antagonize you lol. It's all so tiresome...

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Nice back peddling. Your exact quote word for word was: "put up over a point per game in the NHL in his rookie season"

You didn't take my point into context at all. Tell me why now I should extend you the courtesy?

Huge difference. I left out a word. I didn't mean to say what I said. You meant to say what you said, but apparently you didn't mean it in that context... Sure...

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Real sound argument bud. He's not a bust cause I say so, and anyone who disagrees with me is a moron. I mean I say you have no substance behind your opinions and you prove me my point. Thanks I guess.

No. He's not a bust because no sane person would think he is, based on his play thus far. Not just because I don't think he is...

48 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No it really won't. All-stars are players who go to the all-star game. There's zero room for interpretation. Good lord this is getting sad. Plz let the adults talk.

So is that only the year they go to the All-Star game? Or once you've played in one, you're always considered an All-Star? Is John Scott an "all-star"? 

You may be an adult by definition, but you certainly act like a child...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Huge difference. I left out a word. I didn't mean to say what I said. You meant to say what you said, but apparently you didn't mean it in that context... Sure...

No I meant it in exactly the context of the paragraph I wrote it in. You took out of that context and paraded around like I think Zadina is the next Hossa all of the sudden. Even though everyone, including yourself, know I don't think that in the slightest. So forgive me for holding you to your own disingenuous standard.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

No. He's not a bust because no sane person would think he is, based on his play thus far. Not just because I don't think he is...

Cause his play

Okay we've at least got our foot in the door now. What play is that? Describe it. Why do you like it?

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

So is that only the year they go to the All-Star game? Or once you've played in one, you're always considered an All-Star?

Are you employee of the month only in the month you got named employee of the month?
Once you've been employee of the month, you're always considered employee of the month?

That's the equivalent of the questions you're asking here...

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

 Is John Scott an "all-star"?

Yes. By definition John Scott is an all-star. Specifically a 2016 all-star. R u honestly confused by this??