2020 Offseason

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:51 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I literally gave you a comparable in terms of how I see Zadina panning out. Being as that Zadina's future hasn't happened yet, giving an example of another's player's career that has taken shape seems like a reasonable model to show this.

This is literally how projections work. I don't understand your confusion.

My take on Zadina is that his development is slower than expected, but I see nothing that tells me he won't still develop into a top line forward. His defense needs some work (not at all unusual for young, offensive forwards at the NHL level). He would benefit by having a better center, and is not at the level where he is going to generate a lot of points on his own. He also will probably get a lot of his points on the PP, and will be more dependant on that then I would like. 

My overall take, as I said in my last post, is that he will continue to increase his point total each season, and will become a 60 point player within 3 years. This is a better track than what you see, but is not at all unrealistic.

The more and more his carer progresses, and the more and more we talk, the more and more you all reel in your expectations.

Good. Baby steps.

My point from day one was this isn't an elite player. Not a building block. The type of player - that we found at 6th overall - that Yzerman could find in the 4th round. He should be sold while he still has 6th overall hype attached to him. But god forbid anyone trust their instincts and act boldly and decisively.  We will wait until he's the next Nyquist and then trade him at a marginal return. Quote me there. Save it. Cause it's certainly gonna be the first thing I'm gonna post on Zadina trade day when he goes for a 3rd and a 5th.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

maybe Holland would be interested in Zadina. He loved the pick enough to pass on need.  We aren't going to get a Quinn Hughes-type player back in return, but maybe a nice prospect for prospect swap. Or just see who we draft this season, and let Zadina attempt to become a "fill their nets" player. Maybe if we are able to get LaFreniere, it will overshadow Zadina if he fails to live up to his "best scorer in the draft" hype. Worst case scenario, he becomes a middle 6 winger, best case, he is on RW with Larkin and LaFreniere.  (or if another C becomes our #1C)

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

On 4/12/2020 at 7:59 PM, Dabura said:

Wait so are we ironically hating on Zadina or unironically hating on Zadina? I need to know if I should be praying for him at night or stabbing pins in a voodoo doll.

Just figure out what everyone else is doing and do the opposite. Then wait for your alpha badge in the mail. 

[mackel 675]

On 4/13/2020 at 11:56 AM, LeftWinger said:

maybe Holland would be interested in Zadina. He loved the pick enough to pass on need.  We aren't going to get a Quinn Hughes-type player back in return, but maybe a nice prospect for prospect swap. Or just see who we draft this season, and let Zadina attempt to become a "fill their nets" player. Maybe if we are able to get LaFreniere, it will overshadow Zadina if he fails to live up to his "best scorer in the draft" hype. Worst   BEST  case scenario, he becomes a middle 6 winger, best case, he is on RW with Larkin and LaFreniere.  (or if another C becomes our #1C)

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by mackel

[LeftWinger 4,936]

I'm with ya Mackel, I wanted a D-Man (Bouchard) but most of believed the hype draft day. I do wish we had drafted Hughes, but what do we do now? I bet we could not trade Zadina for either Hughes nor Bouchard.  I wonder if we could get Dobson or Boqvuist? (again, nobody say Hague! LOL! (I still like him as a player though!))

 

[Dabura 12,206]

6 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Just figure out what everyone else is doing and do the opposite. Then wait for your alpha badge in the mail. 

THAT'S WHY I POSED THE QUESTION, RYANS

[AtlantaHotWings 974]

Reading Mlive today and these articles made me go siiiiiiiigh no link for the Wings need a new coach....

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/04/red-wings-in-market-for-back-up-goaltender.html

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/04/red-wings-need-pair-of-defensemen-in-free-agency.html

https://www.mlive.com/redwings/2020/04/red-wings-could-use-free-agent-forward-with-offensive-ability.html

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

https://www.nhl.com/news/dustin-byfuglien-winnipeg-agree-to-terminate-deal/c-316649738

Big Buff is a 35 year old marshmallow.

He's done.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

https://www.nhl.com/news/ottawa-senators-fan-bria-roberts-completes-chemotherapy/c-316646082

This poor girl. She has to undergo 72 weeks of chemotherapy. On top of that, she's a Sens fan. The world can be a cruel place.

Seriously tho, Congratulations Bria!

[kipwinger 8,495]

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/dustin-byfuglien-winnipeg-agree-to-terminate-deal/c-316649738

Big Buff is a 35 year old marshmallow.

He's done.

If this truly is the end for Buff, and it seems like it is, then I'll be bummed.  That guy was an absolute animal. His blend of size, speed, and skill from the defense position was truly one of a kind in NHL history. One of the rare types of players who can take a game over all by themselves. 

I mean, who else does THIS to Chris Pronger?

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

If this truly is the end for Buff, and it seems like it is, then I'll be bummed.  That guy was an absolute animal. His blend of size, speed, and skill from the defense position was truly one of a kind in NHL history. One of the rare types of players who can take a game over all by themselves. 

I mean, who else does THIS to Chris Pronger?

 

Chicago's first Stanley v. Philly was low key one of my favorite series. It seems obvious now, but throwing out a younger Bylfugien at powerfoward against Pronger was genius. Despite that many would argue that Byflugien plays better at defense. You eliminate the presence of Pronger like that and now all you have to do is beat their forward match-ups. Kane and Toews v. Carter and Richards. Byflugien was basically the door jam for Kane and Toews.

Edited April 18, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Grammy salute to Prince on CBS right now. Better tune in quick @ChristopherReevesLegs

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Grammy salute to Prince on CBS right now. Better tune in quick @ChristopherReevesLegs

I dont watch CIA controlled television programming

[ely s 457]

https://www.nhl.com/news/pittsburgh-penguins-goalie-update-matt-murray-tristan-jarry/c-316829384

this might offer a possibility of getting a good goalie, also interesting that the pens believe the cap won´t rise and possibly can go down as well, what will put for example Toronto in an even tougher spot than they´re in already...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, ely s said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/pittsburgh-penguins-goalie-update-matt-murray-tristan-jarry/c-316829384

this might offer a possibility of getting a good goalie, also interesting that the pens believe the cap won´t rise and possibly can go down as well, what will put for example Toronto in an even tougher spot than they´re in already...

I think you have to trade Murray no? He's gonna command more money, but also had a really down season compared to Jarry,

I dunno if I'd trade for Murray. Sub .900 sv% is really bad. And he was on a good team too. I feel more inclined to just throw some old fart in with Bernier because I think we will suck again regardless if Murray comes here or not.

[13dangledangle 957]

On 4/13/2020 at 1:37 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 We will wait until he's the next Nyquist and then trade him at a marginal return

Off topic but Ill never understand what happened to the Goose.  He topped the AHL in points then came in and looked like a dynamo in the NHL, and yet another draft steal for us at 121 overall.  2013-2015 he was awesome then just fizzled out.

I see Zadina being more of a Tartar scoring wise with a more complete game.  I really liked what I saw of him in GR this year, is playmaking skills are understated and seems to have the knack of creating open ice.  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, 13dangledangle said:

Off topic but Ill never understand what happened to the Goose.  He topped the AHL in points then came in and looked like a dynamo in the NHL, and yet another draft steal for us at 121 overall.  2013-2015 he was awesome then just fizzled out.

I see Zadina being more of a Tartar scoring wise with a more complete game.  I really liked what I saw of him in GR this year, is playmaking skills are understated and seems to have the knack of creating open ice.  

Would love to discuss either with you.

Nyquist to me is too passive. He came in relatively unknown and hot on good teams and then digressed as the team digressed. He has that passenger quality where he's only as good as the line you put him on. This is unlike a Zetterberg - whom you can stick on a line with Sheahan and Abdelkader - and he'll still generate. Though when I think of "The Red Wings mold" for a player Nyquist seems to fit it perfectly to me. Smart, responsible, poised, patient, He just wasn't godly skilled enough to be a Z or Datsyuk. Z seemed to be so technically proficient and have so much determination that he could just will the puck into the back of the net. Datsyuk was so skilled that he was just ******* with people and having fun half the time. I mean going behind the net and trying to lacrosse a puck up and over the net in the playoffs for giggles is ballsy even for the best players (forget what series that was, he didn't score on the play). Nyquist seemed to be too passive for any of that.

Too Zadina. I see this same passive passenger like quality in Zadina. Maybe less so than Nyquist, but there nonetheless. Zadina is really good at utilizing his stick in all situations. I praise him for that constantly. His potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there if he wants to be that. My worry with him is he's not the line driver Zberg or Datsyuk was. Tatar looked to be the line driver for MTL this year, but he still only managed 61 pts in 66 games. That's a problem for MTL IMO. Your main line driver shouldn't be a 29 year old winger putting up decent points. Zberg at the same age was putting up 92 points in 75 games.

So I definitely think Zadina will be a valuable player, like both Tatar and Nyquist were and are. I just don't think we should bank on him being a driver for this team. I think of him more as a Franzen or Holmstrom (not in style of play) the type of player who can help you loads but you still need true superstars around him. If we don't get those superstars soon I think Zadina will be doomed to have career fizzle like Nyquists did.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Henrik borgstrom is possibly going to the khl by the sounds of it, if i had to guess hes probably fed up with the panthers . He was once highly touted and turning 23 in august, if he price isnt expensive might be worth a look

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/118332/henrik-borgstrom

[13dangledangle 957]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would love to discuss either with you.

Nyquist to me is too passive. He came in relatively unknown and hot on good teams and then digressed as the team digressed. He has that passenger quality where he's only as good as the line you put him on. This is unlike a Zetterberg - whom you can stick on a line with Sheahan and Abdelkader - and he'll still generate. Though when I think of "The Red Wings mold" for a player Nyquist seems to fit it perfectly to me. Smart, responsible, poised, patient, He just wasn't godly skilled enough to be a Z or Datsyuk. Z seemed to be so technically proficient and have so much determination that he could just will the puck into the back of the net. Datsyuk was so skilled that he was just ******* with people and having fun half the time. I mean going behind the net and trying to lacrosse a puck up and over the net in the playoffs for giggles is ballsy even for the best players (forget what series that was, he didn't score on the play). Nyquist seemed to be too passive for any of that.

Too Zadina. I see this same passive passenger like quality in Zadina. Maybe less so than Nyquist, but there nonetheless. Zadina is really good at utilizing his stick in all situations. I praise him for that constantly. His potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there if he wants to be that. My worry with him is he's not the line driver Zberg or Datsyuk was. Tatar looked to be the line driver for MTL this year, but he still only managed 61 pts in 66 games. That's a problem for MTL IMO. Your main line driver shouldn't be a 29 year old winger putting up decent points. Zberg at the same age was putting up 92 points in 75 games.

So I definitely think Zadina will be a valuable player, like both Tatar and Nyquist were and are. I just don't think we should bank on him being a driver for this team. I think of him more as a Franzen or Holmstrom (not in style of play) the type of player who can help you loads but you still need true superstars around him. If we don't get those superstars soon I think Zadina will be doomed to have career fizzle like Nyquists did.

I agree Nyquist got too passive and ended up not having the will Zetterberg did, but few have the will of that dude.  Nyquist just looked like a beast when he arrived, kinda moved around the ice like a little water bug.  His goal to tie it up against Boston when he blew by Chara and his overtime goal against Ottawa where he skated around the offensive zone twice and put it in will always stand out as my favs.

If Zadina has the ceiling of Hossa then I think he should move into Yzermans house immediately like Crosby did with Lemieux, Im not saying his ceiling is that of a franchise player though just that if he could end up like a Hoss that'd be amazing.  I do believe he'll fit the mold of a Tats/Goose, and agree if we cant get a stronger core sooner than later he'll be moving on for picks before too long  

 

[mackel 675]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would love to discuss either with you.

Nyquist to me is too passive. He came in relatively unknown and hot on good teams and then digressed as the team digressed. He has that passenger quality where he's only as good as the line you put him on. This is unlike a Zetterberg - whom you can stick on a line with Sheahan and Abdelkader - and he'll still generate. Though when I think of "The Red Wings mold" for a player Nyquist seems to fit it perfectly to me. Smart, responsible, poised, patient, He just wasn't godly skilled enough to be a Z or Datsyuk. Z seemed to be so technically proficient and have so much determination that he could just will the puck into the back of the net. Datsyuk was so skilled that he was just ******* with people and having fun half the time. I mean going behind the net and trying to lacrosse a puck up and over the net in the playoffs for giggles is ballsy even for the best players (forget what series that was, he didn't score on the play). Nyquist seemed to be too passive for any of that.

Too Zadina. I see this same passive passenger like quality in Zadina. Maybe less so than Nyquist, but there nonetheless. Zadina is really good at utilizing his stick in all situations. I praise him for that constantly. His potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there if he wants to be that. My worry with him is he's not the line driver Zberg or Datsyuk was. Tatar looked to be the line driver for MTL this year, but he still only managed 61 pts in 66 games. That's a problem for MTL IMO. Your main line driver shouldn't be a 29 year old winger putting up decent points. Zberg at the same age was putting up 92 points in 75 games.

 So I definitely think Zadina will be a valuable player, like both Tatar and Nyquist were and are. I just don't think we should bank on him being a driver for this team. I think of him more as a Franzen or Holmstrom (not in style of play) the type of player who can help you loads but you still need true superstars around him. If we don't get those superstars soon I think Zadina will be doomed to have career fizzle like Nyquists did.

That's a somewhat positive outlook on Zadina...  you've changed man, you've changed.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would love to discuss either with you.

Nyquist to me is too passive. He came in relatively unknown and hot on good teams and then digressed as the team digressed. He has that passenger quality where he's only as good as the line you put him on. This is unlike a Zetterberg - whom you can stick on a line with Sheahan and Abdelkader - and he'll still generate. Though when I think of "The Red Wings mold" for a player Nyquist seems to fit it perfectly to me. Smart, responsible, poised, patient, He just wasn't godly skilled enough to be a Z or Datsyuk. Z seemed to be so technically proficient and have so much determination that he could just will the puck into the back of the net. Datsyuk was so skilled that he was just ******* with people and having fun half the time. I mean going behind the net and trying to lacrosse a puck up and over the net in the playoffs for giggles is ballsy even for the best players (forget what series that was, he didn't score on the play). Nyquist seemed to be too passive for any of that.

Too Zadina. I see this same passive passenger like quality in Zadina. Maybe less so than Nyquist, but there nonetheless. Zadina is really good at utilizing his stick in all situations. I praise him for that constantly. His potential to be a very complete Hossa type winger is definitely there if he wants to be that. My worry with him is he's not the line driver Zberg or Datsyuk was. Tatar looked to be the line driver for MTL this year, but he still only managed 61 pts in 66 games. That's a problem for MTL IMO. Your main line driver shouldn't be a 29 year old winger putting up decent points. Zberg at the same age was putting up 92 points in 75 games.

So I definitely think Zadina will be a valuable player, like both Tatar and Nyquist were and are. I just don't think we should bank on him being a driver for this team. I think of him more as a Franzen or Holmstrom (not in style of play) the type of player who can help you loads but you still need true superstars around him. If we don't get those superstars soon I think Zadina will be doomed to have career fizzle like Nyquists did.

So... Not a bust then?

1 hour ago, mackel said:

That's a somewhat positive outlook on Zadina...  you've changed man, you've changed.

He hasn't changed. He's backpedaling...

[mackel 675]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

So... Not a bust then?

He hasn't changed. He's backpedaling...

Why would he backpedal from the correct position?  I think COVID19 and/or Carole Baskin is behind this.

 

Once again... 

Zadina ceiling = Tatar

Zadina floor = KHL

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, mackel said:

Once again... 

Zadina ceiling = Tatar

Zadina floor = KHL

Zadina floor - Tatar

Zadina ceiling - Kucherov

I think he'll end up somewhere in between. I actually really like the Hossa comparison...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Zadina floor - Tatar

Zadina ceiling - Kucherov

I think he'll end up somewhere in between. I actually really like the Hossa comparison...

At least Lefty gets his Hossa and he can finally put Franzen to bed.

[Dabura 12,206]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

Zadina ceiling = Tatar

Bruh. C'mon.