marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Funny how you said it in the discord I guess this means you're sticking to the irrelevant side arguments then and won't address the point you were so clearly wrong on? I absolutely did not say Raymond was a center in Discord. Unless you're getting your wires crossed on my discussion of Eklund. It happens. I'll admit 'EVERYTHING IN PLACE' was a poor choice of words. I still stand by the fact that Vasey was simply the BPA at 19, and that based on Yzerman's choice at 10, probably didn't see him at BPA in the top 10. I'll also stand by the fact that it makes sense to get your top center and top dman before gunning for a goalie in most scenarios, the exception being when the goalie is BPA. Will Walstedt be BPA at #6? Who knows. I think you have Eklund who is the best player in the draft, though because of his size everyone has hard ons for Power and Berniers. So IMO, Eklund is the clear BPA if he is on the board with pick 6. I'd make a similar argument for Hughes, though I see him as a tier below. As far as guys like Walstedt, Johnson, MacTavish go, I see them all as about equal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Johnson I think is my #1 now. Ya fukin fence sitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Ya fukin fence sitter Obviously doesn't think we should take a goalie in the top 10... Not as many people are saying that we shouldn't take Edvinsson at 6. That's why he's backing off on him as his number one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, BarkBurgerman said: So we should probably draft a Dman then no? I mean you're right, it's unfair to assume Seider will be anything. He hasn't even played a game yet. Meaning our D corps looks like a graveyard still. Absolutely. I would be very disappointed if Yzerman didn't take a single defenseman in this draft... 2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: All of the sudden you're not a Raymond guy as soon as I'm on board with him. Lol I love it I'm still a huge Raymond guy. Troll harder bud... 2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Lol the bolded says it all! cheers. Burgerman: "Edvinsson is my guy"... Also, Burgerman: "We need to take Wallstedt at 6"... Also, also Burgerman: "Johnson is my number one now"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Okay, lets pretend you knew nothing about hookers or Raymond being a center. Now you do know. We got our our 1C in Raymond and our 1D in Seider. The next concern is goalie. I like Walstedt at 6th, but I'm partial to Cossa at 22. Regardless the position needs to be addressed in a big way. And I'd venture to say Yzerman agrees with me there. His goalie pool is crap and his history suggests he's willing to spend big and early to fix that. I agree with everything except Raymond as a 1C. I like Walstedt at 6 if he is BPA at 6. I'd definitely prefer Cossa with the Caps pick, even if it means trading up to get him. The position definitely, urgently needs to be addressed, and I hope he solves it a similar way he did in Tampa. Without a top 10 pick (if possible). And please do not use the word hooker. It's a trigger word for some guy who likes to predict the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: Um ya theres no standard for a #1c I'm glad we agree... 13 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: yes compare larkin to the best two way centers in the league who have won cups and awards... i agreed that he hit 60+ pts 2/6 times i never once said he can get to the level of being one of the best two way center’s in the league ...but nice try... not saying toffoli is one of the top goalscorers cause he was on pace for 40 for one time Larkin currently sits with 289 points in 433 games. At the same age, O'Reilly had 256 points in 439 games. He too didn't have a single Stanley Cup ring, or any individual awards. At the same age, Larkin has been the better player, on worse NHL teams (The Avs were bad, but not current Red Wings bad). So you think Larkin can get back to 60-70 point seasons, but you don't think he can further improve his defense? Okay... 21 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: if hes here for 6+ seasons and retires a redwing (thats a stretch) he wont be captain..... maybe you should google nhl captains traded you might be in for a shocker . Yes the “captain” yzerman will be the one who’ll look at seider in a few years turn his head and see larkin and be like what the f*** have i done and fix his mistake cause thats what he does I think he will retire a Red Wing and be a captain for his entire tenure. Maybe you should google Red Wings captains traded. You might be in for a shocker... Your captain doesn't necessarily have to be your best player. Yzerman isn't going to strip Larkin of the C, and hand it to Seider, or any other player. It's not going to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Strawman How is that a strawman? You literally said we should draft a defenseman, no? I was agreeing with you... 13 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Okay, but we can't assume he'll amount to anything... right? I never said we can't assume Raymond or Seider will amount to anything... but you know that... All I'm saying is that it's hard to say for sure that Seider is our Hedman, and Raymond is our Point, when neither of them have played a single NHL game, let alone as a 1D / 1C... 17 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: At no point have I argued for all three at the same time like you. I actually have an opinion on who to take and that's Walstedt. Johnson is the BPA. Where have I "argued" for anyone? I've said there are a handful of guys I'd be okay with Yzerman taking. I trust that he knows a hell of a lot more than anyone here about all of these guys. A lot of people feel the same way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: Its hilarious now how people all of a sudden wouldnt mind wallstedt at 6 but theyd still prefer being an arizona and finding our own barret hayton with that pick. Id rather have 14 players over the goalie but i wouldnt mind him = i dont want him The only person who gets triggered by hookers is the guy who denies the truth then proceeds to change his handle name and call uncle matty . Anyways lets just leave the hookers alone they dont get nearly enough tip money Ahh yes, continue to beat the dead horse. And the only thing people argue about Walstedt is your unreasonable all or nothing stance. There are like two anti-goalie people on this forum. Everyone else is pretty much okay with it assuming he is the best option at #6. Sadly this information seems unable to reach that brain of yours. Edited July 7, 2021 by marcaractac 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: Nyquist is in the same ball park in pts as larkin , you think he’ll be one of the best two way wingers now... you want to believe larkin will be one of the best 2 way centers in the league ? Cool hope your right . I think your dead wrong though It's funny you bring up Nyquist... I remember this one guy actually thought he was "the future"... He's now 31 years old, so no, I don't think he's going to become one of the best two-way wingers in the league... 4 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said: wtf are you talking about .... so nhl teams can trade captains but because we havent we never will? Great logic there .... yes yzerman will never strip larkin of the c and hes gonna play in detroit his whole career as a redwing cause krsmith17 on a message forum said so I never said the Red Wings will never trade a captain ever again... I'm saying Yzerman didn't make Larkin the next Red Wing captain, only to trade him. Larkin is here for the long haul, and like it or not, he will be the captain, and number one center for the foreseeable future. It's an opinion dumbass. Definitely has more merit than any of your dumb opinions, especially Yzerman will strip Larkin of the C, and trade him, because hookersarethefuture on a message forum said so... 8 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Raymond and/or Seider should have the C. That's gonna be painfully obvious in 3 years or so. Yzerman's biggest goof was naming a captain too early. You don't strip a player of the C, to give it to someone else, just because he's a better player... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: >Talking about the 1st round pick >We should take a Dman >Krsmith: I would be upset if Yzerman didn't take a dman in the whole draft Okay, how about this. I would be mildly disappointed if Yzerman doesn't take a defenseman with one of his two first round picks... But in the end, I just want him to take best player available at 6 and 23. 4 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Yeah but we can't assume they'll amount to anything...right???? Seider and Raymond will be NHL players. No doubt. Will they be true number one defenseman / center? Who knows. Keep playing stupid though. You're really good at that... 6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Exactly, you don't have any real opinions. You're just pooping on others opinions. LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said: Oh that's a bit of bologna He was the same way with Brannstrom and Raymond and never met this sort of resistance. "There's like two anti-goalie people on this forum" yet pretty much every regular poster besides me is exerting to him that taking goalies high is foolish cause of philosophy and Osgood winning a few. I think this boards tropes and mysticism's about the draft are a buncha hooey Neo, Kip, and 91 are the only three I've seen who are straight up anti-goalie in round 1. Key words: I've seen. More people seem perfectly fine with it than not. To say every poster besides you is saying taking Walstedt at 6 is foolish is quite disingenuous. Many have preferences for other players at 6OA. But that does not mean being anti-goalie at 6OA. If any preference what so ever is given to another player at #6 by anybody, you lump them in with the anti-goalie crowd. That is what is foolish. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, BarkBurgerman said: What if the BPA at 6 is Walstedt AND also the BPA at 22 is Cossa??? GOALIE CITY, *****!!! But like I said in Discord last night, #Cossa@6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: No, you're right, you strip a player of the C because someone else is a better leader. Raymond and Seider both have leadership qualities that Larkin has never been praised for. LOL I distinctively remember when the Red Wings took Larkin back in the '14 draft, people saying that he's a born leader, and someone, I can't remember who, maybe Pierre, said he will be a captain for the Red Wings someday. Well, he was right. Larkin definitely has leadership qualities, and he will remain the captain of the Red Wings. Seider will get an A, and maybe Raymond will get the other A... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: And yet I say something as trivial as "Yzerman isn't afraid to take a goalie in the first" and it's met with "Only after EVERYTHING else was in place and he had no other glaring holes!" from supposedly neutral folks like you... You say one thing and then do another. If you're actually cool with the goalie, then be cool with it. Lotta good that leadership has done us these past few years lol I already conceded to the "everything in place" thing. Get over it. I also said countless times that Vasey was BPA at 19. No disputing that at all. I just don't think he'd have taken him at 6 that season. That's it. I'm allowed to have that thought, and that thought is 100% independent of my opinion on this coming draft, which is if Eklund is taken, I do not disagree with Walstedt being in the group of BPA. I 100% agree we need to address the position by taking a goalie in the first couple rounds in this year. My preference would be Eklund at 6 and goalie with the 22 pick, even if it means trading up. If Eklund is gone? I say giver on Walsedt. Hell, giver on Cossa at #6 for all I care, as I see Cossa at that same level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: What if the BPA at 6 is Walstedt AND also the BPA at 22 is Cossa??? Wallstedt at 6, and next best skater available (assuming there isn't much of a dropoff) at 22... 16 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Seider will be a #1 Dman and win at least one Norris. Raymond will be #1 center and displace Larkin from that role. Is that too firm for you? What happened to the Krsmith who had actual opinions on players like Jurco and Smith? I miss that guy. Now you're just wishy washy and poop on walstedt cause you're afraid to have real opinions again. Burned too many times? I'm all for trying Raymond at center. He has all the tools to be an elite center. Will the Red Wings try him there? I don't know. Will he succeed there? Maybe. I have a lot of "actual opinions". You know that. Everyone here knows that. I'm just not taking a stance on a draft class, that I know very little about. Even the people that are supposed to know everything about all of these players, don't. There just isn't the same level of information on a lot of them. I'm hoping Yzerman makes the right pick, whether that's Eklund, Edvinsson, Wallstedt, or someone completely different... 11 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Lotta good that leadership has done us these past few years lol You think anyone else could have done a better job leading this team the past few seasons? You think we would have been better if a different player was wearing the C? LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, marcaractac said: GOALIE CITY, *****!!! But like I said in Discord last night, #Cossa@6 ssshhhh - quiet ! I don't want these a$$holes here coming over... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 Funny...More action here than all of the GDT from the past season combined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Scenario: Walstedt is taken by Detroit at 6th It's pick #22 and Cossa is available and also the BPA on Yzerman's draft list. Does he take Cossa as well? No, he doesn't take two goaltenders in the 1st round. No team / GM would ever take a goaltender at 6 and 23. It's not going to happen. 3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Yes and also yes So you think the Red Wings will continue to struggle with Larkin as their captain, regardless of the players coming up? But if Yzerman takes the C from Larkin and gives it to Seider (who will presumably be an alternate), all of a sudden they're a much better team? LOL okay... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 26 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: But none of that is my point at the moment.... Again, I said something trivial about Yzerman being willing to spend a 1st on a goalie in the past and your reaction was resistance to that. Indicating you think we should fill other holes first. If that's your opinion fine. Stick to it. I'm just pointing out the obvious resistance to the whole goalie thing from folks like you claiming neutral after the fact. There was no resistance, I was merely pointing out the circumstances of that draft. Partially, of which I got wrong. It does not change the fact that taking a goalie at #6 vs #19 are very different things. Neither of which I am against. Vasey at #19 was a much clearer choice than a goalie at #6 this year. The resistance is not taking a goalie early. The "resistance" was pointing out the scenarios involving Tampa then vs Detroit now and how they are not the same. You are the one creating a facade of resistance, despite me saying I was fine with a goalie at #6. Why must you continue to argue when someone is AGREEING with you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 For what it's worth ... https://hockeyprospect.com/2021-nhl-draft-black-book-is-now-available/?cn-reloaded=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: But Cossa is the BPA. Shouldn't you always take BPA? Yes, but there are obviously exceptions. Taking two goaltenders with your first two picks (both in the first round), in the middle of a rebuild, when you have other glaring needs, would definitely be an exception to the rule... Besides, I'm sure most teams have their lists in tiers, and I highly doubt Wallstedt will be in a tier of his own at 6, let alone Cossa in a tier of his own at 23... If Yzerman has Wallstedt and Eklund (for example) ranked similarly, I would hope he would take the skater (personal preference). If he has Cossa and Lambos (for example) ranked similarly, I'd be okay with either player or goalie there... 14 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: But none of that is what you asked me is it? Ok, so you think a different captain would have made a difference this past season, but won't make much of a difference in the future? So why strip Larkin of the C? Who would have been a better choice as captain this past season? And how much better would the Wings had been with said captain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, BarkBurgerman said: Where are my Cossa at 6 bros at??? Really interesting takes with this link at Hockey Prospects (no idea of their credibility)...Anywho - interesting takes for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said: So we SHOULD draft based on need as well. Okay. Thanks, I just needed the quote. Need should ALWAYS be considered, but should NEVER be the determining factor. Again, I would assume most teams have tiers of players on their list. That's when you may consider which player better fits with the team, be it position, handedness, different attributes (leadership, skill, toughness, etc.)... 3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Larkin was not a very a good captain. Is not a very good captain. And will not be a very good captain. Based on what? Detroit being a bad team? LOL Have you been in the dressing room? Have you asked players on the team if Larkin is a good captain? Nope and Nope... 4 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Glendening. So you think the Red Wings would have had a better record last season if Larkin remained an alternate, and Glendening were the captain? LOL 5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: How much worse would the Wings have been without Larkin as captain? That's the difference. I don't think who wears the C has much of an impact on the outcome of games. Any more dumb questions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: Where are my Cossa at 6 bros at??? 20 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said: >Me: Yzerman has shown he's willing to spend a 1st on a goalie >You: Only after the rest of the Tampa roster was set and he doesn't have glaring holes like us Pardon me, but I took this to mean you believe we are not ready to draft a goalie in the 1st. I mean, how else did you expect me to take it? It's not about the goalie. It's about Walstedt. Sing the praises of Cossa @ 6 and I will not bat an eye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, marcaractac said: It's not about the goalie. It's about Walstedt. Sing the praises of Cossa @ 6 and I will not bat an eye. Read a humorous scouts pov on netminders from the OHL/WHL/QMJHL...Said sumthin along the lines that their numbers tend to bloated due to a lack of quality opponents when compared to their Euro counterparts who are playing in a much higher level against men. Not so much anti-Cossa - just more pro-Wallstedt considering their road to the draft table...Will post the quote if I can find it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
