Larkin & Bertuzzi Contract Watch? Red Wings TDL Discussion.

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Youre making all the points to DITCH our draft packs, you realize?

I would ditch every draft pick we have for a #1 center prospect. Aside from that one piece we've got a solid foundation to build a perennial contender on, PLUS we've got enough good veterans to teach them how to play/carry the load until they're up to speed. What I wouldn't do is ditch our picks on an older player like Chychrun or Horvat. I'd look at the latter in free agency, and (much as I hate to gamble) I think the former is a luxury we can afford to pass over.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I would ditch every draft pick we have for a #1 center prospect. Aside from that one piece we've got a solid foundation to build a perennial contender on, PLUS we've got enough good veterans to teach them how to play/carry the load until they're up to speed. What I wouldn't do is ditch our picks on an older player like Chychrun or Horvat. I'd look at the latter in free agency, and (much as I hate to gamble) I think the former is a luxury we can afford to pass over.

Chychrun is 24!!!

We just f u c k e d the pooch with Lindholm.  If we dont hit on Chychrun, the dark days drag on.  Chychrun solidifies our back end.

[kipwinger 8,524]

31 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Chychrun is 24!!!

We just f u c k e d the pooch with Lindholm.  If we dont hit on Chychrun, the dark days drag on.  Chychrun solidifies our back end.

Like I said, I'm not gonna lose my mind if we trade for him. BUT LD is probably the deepest part of our organization. I see no reason to believe that Edvinsson won't be just as good, or better, than Chychrun. And then we have Wallinder, Johansson, Buium, and McIsaac after that.

I guess my "older player" comment was the wrong way of wording it. Established is probably better. I don't want to trade lots of assets for established players when we could use them on something we really need, like a 1C prospect. Chychrun is a luxury, I'd definitely look at guys like him in free agency, and admittedly I've advocated trading for him before. But with how Edvinsson and Wallinder have turned out I don't think he's necessary.

[Walman6million 250]

34 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Chychrun is 24!!!

We just f u c k e d the pooch with Lindholm.  If we dont hit on Chychrun, the dark days drag on.  Chychrun solidifies our back end.

Jonas meet Jake. Jake show Jonas and Jakob how you slap the puck. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Jonas meet Jake. Jake show Jonas and Jakob how you slap the puck. 

exactly.  love me some slapshots.  Seider the ***** boy wont do it.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

All this talk about Chychrun. Remember that time when Ken Holland was our GM and in 2016 he traded the 16th pick in the draft, along with Datsyuk's contract to the Coyotes for the #20, #53 and Joe Vitale? I know #53 ended up being Hronek, but he drafted Smith at #46, he could've gotten Hronek there instead. We could've drafted Chychrun (instead of Cholowski) and Hronek and had them both.  Good Times.

I am so glad Holland is gone! Man he really lost it near the end there!

Someone else would've taken that Datsyuk contract, Holland is just stupid. 2016 was a huge mistake, 2017 was abysmal and 2018 was just embarrassing.

2016: Should've draft Chychrun at 16 and Hronek at 46

2017: I know Rasmussen is coming along and that is great, but for all the slack I took for Tippett, he is slowly catching him. Only 13 points behind in 67 less games played. But comparing him to a RW isn't fair, so lets talk Vilardi, 13 less point in 94 less games. Suzuki has played in 98 more games, and 100 more points than Ras. Necas has played in 23 more games and has 82 more points. So the three consecutive C's taken after Rasmussen are performing far better than Holland's pick.

2018: Zadina? Thanks Holland! Should've kept with the plan for D! Would've had Hughes or Bouchard.

Don't even get started with the Svechnikov draft! 

Sure, he is not the only one making these picks, there is a team of people all putting their thoughts together, but his team sucked at the end. He is by far not the only GM to swing and miss, but it just seems that he has missed a ton more than he hit in his later years. Makes me wonder what our draft would've looked like if he had just stepped aside when Yzerman was supposed to become our GM the first time.

Anyhow, sorry for the run-on and rant, but seeing everyone (mostly) wanting to go for Chychrun just reminded me of how we should've had him to begin with instead of trading down for the extra 2nd.

Here's how things could've been from 2015-2018.

Instead of Svech, could've had Boeser who was the next winger to be taken, if you wanted to stick with a LW, could've had Beauvillier

Instead of Cholowski, Smith and Hronek, could've have had Chychrun and Hronek.

Instead of Rasmussen, could've had Vilardi, Necas or Suzuki

Instead of Zadina, could've (should've) had Hughes or Bouchard.

He and his amateur draft team were just horrible. In the end, 2016 and 2018 are going to go down as mental lapses by Ken Holland. 15 and 17, for what hindsight shows, were just a crap shoot gamble. But the other two were attempts to make a better move than was already there, and he failed miserably! I do give him credit for Veleno and Berggren though. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'm not gonna get too bogged down by who we should have drafted. What's done is done. But I will eat a little crow on Evan Bouchard. I wasn't a big fan of him in his draft year when he was rumored to be coming to Detroit, but I've caught a couple Edmonton games lately and he's turning into a really good dman. The knock on him was his skating, and I really liked what I saw there. He's not super fast or anything, but he more than keeps up and he's a very strong skater. I know the points aren't really coming along yet, but he's a solid defenseman. In hindsight I was wrong about that guy.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

apologies! With all that I forgot to put up one of the latest "Twitter" rumors about Bertuzzi.

It said that Dallas is interested and could use him in their top 6. What do you think the return could or should be? Then tweet mentioned that since he hasn't been healthy, it's hard to gauge him on this year, but adding that in, along with last year, his stock has fallen some, so their suggestion was a 2nd round pick and in return for retaining 50% of Bertuzzi's salary, prospect Antonio Stranges. Thoughts?

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm not gonna get too bogged down by who we should have drafted. What's done is done. But I will eat a little crow on Evan Bouchard. I wasn't a big fan of him in his draft year when he was rumored to be coming to Detroit, but I've caught a couple Edmonton games lately and he's turning into a really good dman. The knock on him was his skating, and I really liked what I saw there. He's not super fast or anything, but he more than keeps up and he's a very strong skater. I know the points aren't really coming along yet, but he's a solid defenseman. In hindsight I was wrong about that guy.

Ya, it was more so just a rant about Holland and his decision to trade the pick that should've been Chychrun. Although, knowing Holland, he probably would've drafted Cholowski at 16 anyhow!

[kipwinger 8,524]

Antonio Stranges is garbage. I'd take Wyatt Johnston though.

[Walman6million 250]

Isn't Stranges the prospect with ridiculous skating? He's probably just another Jurco, but I'd be intrigued at obtaining him with what little knowledge I have.

That said I wouldn't trade Bertuzzi - not only because I like him - but because his value is at an all time low again. Smartest thing to do is get him re-signed on a bridge style contract.

[kipwinger 8,524]

9 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

Isn't Stranges the prospect with ridiculous skating? He's probably just another Jurco, but I'd be intrigued at obtaining him with what little knowledge I have.

That said I wouldn't trade Bertuzzi - not only because I like him - but because his value is at an all time low again. Smartest thing to do is get him re-signed on a bridge style contract.

His skating is "ridiculous" in the sense that he skates all goofy footed and unorthodox. He's not fast or anything. He just looks unique because his skating is weird. He's not a good AHL player even, and he's get wrecked in the NHL trying to skate laterally the way he does.

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

28 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

apologies! With all that I forgot to put up one of the latest "Twitter" rumors about Bertuzzi.

It said that Dallas is interested and could use him in their top 6. What do you think the return could or should be? Then tweet mentioned that since he hasn't been healthy, it's hard to gauge him on this year, but adding that in, along with last year, his stock has fallen some, so their suggestion was a 2nd round pick and in return for retaining 50% of Bertuzzi's salary, prospect Antonio Stranges. Thoughts?

Ya, it was more so just a rant about Holland and his decision to trade the pick that should've been Chychrun. Although, knowing Holland, he probably would've drafted Cholowski at 16 anyhow!

I read the same article about the three teams interested in Bertuzzi and aside from the fact that it was by a blogger (and therefore has no credibility), in every case he proposed trading Bertuzzi for a 2nd round pick and some pud prospect with obvious flaws. Stranges' skating will hold him back, another guys was like 5'8, 165 lbs, and the third prospect is tiny, already 23, and riding a 26% shooting meager to very pedestrian NHL production. I want nothing to do with another team's castoffs. Bertuzzi blows, but he's not THAT bad.

Speaking of castoffs, has anybody watched Jesse Puljujarvi actually play? I remember there were a few guys wanting to trade for that big pud a year or so ago. He's absolutely abysmal. Makes Zadina look like David Pastrnak.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

His skating is "ridiculous" in the sense that he skates all goofy footed and unorthodox. He's not fast or anything. He just looks unique because his skating is weird. He's not a good AHL player even, and he's get wrecked in the NHL trying to skate laterally the way he does.

 

WTF!!!

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

WTF!!!

That play cracks me up. Notice how he turns his back to the defender at the blue line when he's trying to gain the zone? Just imagine what would happen if he did that to Seider lol.

 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

7 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That play cracks me up. Notice how he turns his back to the defender at the blue line when he's trying to gain the zone? Just imagine what would happen if he did that to Seider lol.

 

 

Either he's so good he can do that s h i t and get away with it, or he's a total r slur.  Judging by the fact that he buried both goal with ease, I'd say he's really good.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/amp/dylan_larkin_reportedly_declined_eight_year_8m_extension_from_red_wings/s1_14825_38404955

 

Pretty much what we knew.  Larks is at 9, Stevie is at 8.  They'll meet at 8.5 soon.  I consider this one done, tbh.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Either he's so good he can do that s h i t and get away with it, or he's a total r slur.  Judging by the fact that he buried both goal with ease, I'd say he's really good.

You can almost be fooled into thinking that, and then you remember it was his draft plus two season in the CHL...the best season of his career...when he scored 84 points...which is roughly 20 points shy of noted offensive juggernaut Joe Veleno's career high in the CHL. He is not good, the CHL is just THAT s***ty. It'll be a miracle if that kid ever plays more than a couple NHL games.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

18 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You can almost be fooled into thinking that, and then you remember it was his draft plus two season in the CHL...the best season of his career...when he scored 84 points...which is roughly 20 points shy of noted offensive juggernaut Joe Veleno's career high in the CHL. He is not good, the CHL is just THAT s***ty. It'll be a miracle if that kid ever plays more than a couple NHL games.

He has good stick handling skills

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Would you package Rasmussen to Vancouver for Horvat? If there was an extension in place for Horvat? 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Would you package Rasmussen to Vancouver for Horvat? If there was an extension in place for Horvat? 

I think you gotta do this.  Ras has looked great the last 5-10 games tho.   Seems to have found that extra gear.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Horvat to the Islanders for a (lottery protected) 1st, Anthony Beauvillier, and Aatu Raty. Definitely less than I thought the Canucks would get for him. But going to the Island seems like it increases the chances that he makes it to free agency, so that's good.

[town123 175]

7 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 

It said that Dallas is interested and could use him in their top 6. What do you think the return could or should be? Then tweet mentioned that since he hasn't been healthy, it's hard to gauge him on this year, but adding that in, along with last year, his stock has fallen some, so their suggestion was a 2nd round pick and in return for retaining 50% of Bertuzzi's salary, prospect Antonio Stranges. Thoughts?

 If we're eating 50% we should be getting a 1st.    

 

[mackel 681]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Would you package Rasmussen to Vancouver for Horvat? If there was an extension in place for Horvat? 

No lol not that it's an option now.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Pearson, Buchelnikov, and a 1st.  That's our equivalent.

[Walman6million 250]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Horvat to the Islanders for a (lottery protected) 1st, Anthony Beauvillier, and Aatu Raty. Definitely less than I thought the Canucks would get for him. But going to the Island seems like it increases the chances that he makes it to free agency, so that's good.

I figure our equivalent is Rasmussen + Kasper + 1st

meh, screw that

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

I figure our equivalent is Rasmussen + Kasper + 1st

meh, screw that

Yeah, roughly. I’m not too beat up about not getting him via trade. If he’s there in FA go after him, if not start thinking about how to move up in the draft.