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Member Since 11 Nov 2007
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 09:38 PM

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In Topic: Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

24 February 2015 - 10:41 AM

I never actually defended him. I just pointed out your poor understanding of a common idiom and the definition of racism.


So when someone defames an entire nation's people, what word would you use to describe it?


The research shows that after a fight there IS an offensive surge.  For one, or both teams, and not necessarily for the team that starts, or wins, the fight.  Both teams get amped up.  I never said guys didn't get amped up after fights.  Sure they do.  But it doesn't reliably make your team play any better, AND it might actually make the other guys play better.  


Secondly, I certainly agree that chemistry and comraderie are important.  But there are tons of ways to develop chemistry and comraderie.  The Wings are always near the bottom of the league in fights, but don't seem to noticeably suffer from a lack of team cohesion, while a team like Edmonton (which fights much more often) does.  Given how many other methods there are to accomplish team unity, and given that fighting doesn't seem vital to achieving it, I'm going to err on the side of caution and suggest we dispense with the method that kills people's brains slowly. 


I wonder how long it will be until we outlaw boxing. Someone's gotta protect the athletes from themselves!

In Topic: Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

24 February 2015 - 12:20 AM


Well as interesting as a bunch of anecdotal evidence is, actual scientific research suggests that fighting has no positive effect on the outcome of the game.  The ol' eyeball test is good for finding a date on a Friday night, but if you want to find the truth about real world phenomena...you have to use science.  Bummer. 




"We can see in all four of these data sets that there is no evidence that winning a fight leads to better results in the immediate aftermath of the fight. In fact, it appears that the team winning the fight will score slightly less goals in the game than they did previously. In all four groups, the percentage of goals scored by the winning team is within 1.96 standard deviations of the percentage of its total goals scored, indicating that the results are negligible. Thus, we cannot reject the null hypothesis that winning a fight has no impact on a team’s momentum and goal differential."





So, I guess, our overall conclusion from this study isn't completely certain. We wind up with a summary like:

1. The effect doesn't seem to exist for run-of-the-mill fights.
2. When a goon fighter on a goon team fights when his team is down, it seems to benefit that team by 1/8 of a goal, or a bit less than a normal power play.
3. But, that effect isn't statistically significant, so we have some doubts that it's real.
4. And, with only 364 such datapoints qualifying out of around 5,000, only a small percentage of fights match the criterion for that kind of boost.

If you had to reduce that to one line, it might be: At best, there might be a small effect in certain specific circumstances ... but much, much less than sportscasters make it out to be.


Anecdotal evidence? Good grief. Don't play that card when you claim that fighting "doesn't have any impact on the sport." You're holding a handful of hyperbole.


Now I'm not going to argue about goon on goon action for the sake of goonery. I'm not going to argue about the kind of staged fights Tootoo engaged in while a member of the Wings. Unnecessary and pointless, both.


But to claim that the 97 brawl did not inspire the Wings is pure head-in-the-sand fantasy. That night forged a winner in Detroit. The team banished their demons from the previous year's loss to CO and ascended to the championship. Even the Avalanche agree with me. Consider Roy fighting Ozzie a year later. Why did he--a goalie, for crying out loud--throw down his gloves and scuttle down ice again if fighting were irrelevant to the sport?


Goals win games, we all know. So do momentum, belief, trust in the system, and comradery between teammates.

In Topic: Does Kenny Hate Mickey?

23 February 2015 - 09:36 PM

He's old as balls and played hockey his whole life, I'm amazed the dude still has a human jaw and a brain that can figure out what the function of a button is, let alone do above average play by play.


Damn. Mickey isn't even 70 years old yet. He set up Fedorov on a beautiful pass in the 2014 alumni game. "Old as balls" ain't even close.

In Topic: Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

23 February 2015 - 09:15 PM


I think you're a reasonable guy.  I've talked to you before and have no reason to think you're a fool.  I do, however, think that you (and other pro-fighting types) keep struggling to find reasons to validate fighting because if you don't find one sooner or later, you'll be forced to come to terms with the fact that something you find really enjoyable A) doesn't have any impact on the sport whatsoever, and B) is really, REALLY,f****** people's lives up. 


Fighting doesn't have any impact on the sport? March 26, 1997 called to disagree.


"This is a game that brought the Red Wings together," said Vernon, who picked up his 300th career win. "Whether it was the first-period fighting or the overtime goal, a game like this only helps give you confidence to go into the playoffs. When you go to the playoffs, everybody has to be ready to do the job and stay together. Tonight showed the guys were willing to pay the price."



"Certainly, I think that was the turning point as far as the Red Wings' success went. Up until that point, the Red Wings were close, but never tasted victory, and by that I mean Stanley Cup victory."



"After postseason heartbreaks in 1994, '95 and '96, the Red Wings finally developed a swagger on March 26, 1997, one that would carry them to three championships in six seasons."


In Topic: Zetterberg leaves after 2nd Period; "upper body injury"

23 February 2015 - 08:51 PM

I don't think you understand what constitutes racism.


Perhaps the clinical word isn't "racist" but the poster certainly had no qualms about accusing an entire nation's citizens of being racist themselves.


By all means, though, continue to defend the guy who made the nasty comment.