Detroit Pistons (and NBA) Playoff Thread

[Heaton 1]

Still not worried!

holla! never worried until the final 18 seconds of the game!

Edited June 7, 2005 by Heaton

[johnogrodnickfanclub 0]

huh...well would ya look at that...we won...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlueMonk 102]

Amazing effort to win a game 7 on the road. I'm impressed. Lots of press about Shaq and Wade's injuries, but the Pistons survived the better part of two series with Hamilton totally out of sync. Nobody wants to talk about that, though.

Anyway, facing the Spurs will be almost a relief after this series. The Spurs are a better team than Miami, but Detroit matches up better with them. Ben Wallace has spent a seven game series being essentially neutralized by being unable to do his usual off the ball defense. That will change now. Rasheed is the best defensive 4 around, and he will be able to handle Duncan one on one (not shut him down, but contain him). Ben can patrol the paint now. It will be a different pace, with the Spurs trying to run more. But the brutal impossibility of handling Shaq is over.

It will be a great series, with the edge going to San Antonio. But this was a big win!

YEAHHHH!!!!!!!!

[johnogrodnickfanclub 0]

Pistons in 7 over the Spurs...

[Cruiser008 37]

Pistons/Spurs should be great!

For now though I'm just glad we won. There are definitely similarities between this Series and Det/LA last year.

Similarities:

- Both Miami and LA were led by 2 Superstars

- Both Miami and LA were favoured

- Both Miami and LA had home court advantage

- In both Series Shaq was unstoppable, but Detroit for the most part shut down all the role players

Differences:

- LA did NOT play 'The Right Way' whereas Miami did (for the most part)

- Miami's role players stepped up, whereas LA's faltered

But the biggest difference (IMO) is that last year there were people (i.e. Laker haters) including the media who wanted to see us win (esp. since LA already had 3 championships). This year however almost no one, esp. the media and of course the Powers that Be wanted to see us back in the finals (esp. since the brawl and all).

But the Pistons sure showed them!

[BlueMonk 102]

The matchups for these teams are kind of strange. Big edge to the Spurs with their bench. Detroit's bench was built to beat Miami and they performed exactly the way they were supposed to. But it's not that well suited to beat the Spurs. Arroyo will be a pivotal guy in this series. He needs to get something going on offense when he plays.

Billups and Parker are an interesting matchup. The strange thing is I don't think either guy can stop the other. Parker is probably a little too fast for Billups, and Billups is much too strong for Parker. But Billups makes big shots in big games, while Parker folds like a tent under pressure (see the 2004 playoff series Spurs vs. Lakers in games 3 through 6).

Ginobili is not really a stoppable guy. I don't know who will guard Rip. Bowen? That leaves Prince without a suitable defender. If Bowen guards Rip, Ginobili can't guard Prince. I'm not sure Bowen can, either. Prince is a matchup problem with his length.

Duncan is Duncan. Rasheed can guard him as well as anyone. But... Duncan is Duncan.

Freed up from the impossible role of guarding Shaq, Ben will return to form as a huge presence as an off the ball defender. Mohammed and Nesterovic shouldn't present any major problems for Ben. But Duncan can rebound, something Shaq and Mourning weren't really doing effectively.

Both coaches are great.

The Spurs like to run, but in the end, I think the Pistons will handle that OK. It figures to be a slow paced, low scoring series. Both teams will play to their strengths.

Spurs should win. But people in general are underestimating the Pistons again. They will cause the Spurs more problems than everyone thinks. The Spurs have looked really smooth playing their last two series against teams that didn't offer much defensive resistance. Also, although the media would have you believe that only the Pistons face injured teams, the Spurs had the benefit of facing Seattle (Lewis, Radmanovic) and Phoenix (Johnson) without key players. This will be the toughest test for them in the playoffs.

[dallas27 7]

Well the refs gave Miami quite a bit of points but my favorite call was late in the fourth quarter: Damon Jones, I think it was him, was at the side out of bounds line with Chauncey guarding him. Here comes the ref barreling into Jones and then the ref calls the foul on Chauncey when he clearly didn't even touch him. You had to have seen it because words really can't describe how funny it actually was. I wish I had Tivo so I could just relive that call over and over, we decided that that call would make a good #1 blown ref calls on The Sports List

Spurs have been sorta given the team to beat card and I think they are in for a rude awakening... *EDIT* A LOT of people picking the Spurs in 6 games...good...I love the being the underdog, as do the Pistons.

Edited June 7, 2005 by dallas27

[Matt 1,049]

HEART OF A CHAMPION!! How did we win that one? (at one time they had 15 more fts than us!)

The FT numbers didn't bother me -- the Pistons weren't nearly as aggressive driving the lane as the Heat was. (Check the points in the paint for an idea.)

The Pistons did get agressive late (when, early on, they were hitting their mid-range jumpers, so the necessity to drive regularly wasn't there), and were rewarded at the line.

Should be a helluva a Finals...

[BlueMonk 102]

The FT numbers didn't bother me -- the Pistons weren't nearly as aggressive driving the lane as the Heat was. (Check the points in the paint for an idea.)

The Pistons did get agressive late (when, early on, they were hitting their mid-range jumpers, so the necessity to drive regularly wasn't there), and were rewarded at the line.

Should be a helluva a Finals...

I agree about the foul disparity, Matt. Detroit was too busy exploiting Shaq's (career long) inability to defend pick and roll jumpers to even try to get past the bigs for points in the paint. The Heat earned those trips to the foul line, for the most part.

Having said that, this series was one of the worst examples of officiating I've ever seen. It was awful both ways. Barkley, who I rarely take seriously (but enjoy for entertainment purposes anyway) made a great point. The playoffs are supposed to be officiated differently. The teams are playing too intense, too much defense, to call the same things fouls. The flow of the game is destroyed. The teams don't stop playing tough defense because of it, so it doesn't have the intended effect of discouraging it. You can't allow layups, that gives the other team an edge you can't afford to let them have. So instead, the game grinds to a halt while both teams end up in foul trouble.

I tell you, the stuff Shaq gets away with is old news, but it never ceases to amaze me. I guess he's just really hard to officiate with his freakish size. But the number of hooking fouls he commits as he clears a path to the basket is amazing. He had to practically remove Ben Wallace's dentition in game 5 to get whistled for a charge. I guess they couldn't look the other way when the defender was lying on the ground feeling around the court for his front teeth.

The Pistons had chances to win in games 2 and 3 and wasted them. If they give away games against the Spurs, they won't recover. The Spurs are a championship team just like the Pistons. Sloppiness will be punished immediately.

[johnogrodnickfanclub 0]

I believe if the Pistsons split the first two games in San Antonio, the series is over...we win. I honestly believe the 2-3-2 format for the finals can work to an advantage for the lower seeded team.

[Cruiser008 37]

The FT numbers didn't bother me -- the Pistons weren't nearly as aggressive driving the lane as the Heat was. (Check the points in the paint for an idea.)

The Pistons did get agressive late (when, early on, they were hitting their mid-range jumpers, so the necessity to drive regularly wasn't there), and were rewarded at the line.

Should be a helluva a Finals...

I agree about the foul disparity, Matt. Detroit was too busy exploiting Shaq's (career long) inability to defend pick and roll jumpers to even try to get past the bigs for points in the paint. The Heat earned those trips to the foul line, for the most part.

Having said that, this series was one of the worst examples of officiating I've ever seen. It was awful both ways. Barkley, who I rarely take seriously (but enjoy for entertainment purposes anyway) made a great point. The playoffs are supposed to be officiated differently. The teams are playing too intense, too much defense, to call the same things fouls. The flow of the game is destroyed. The teams don't stop playing tough defense because of it, so it doesn't have the intended effect of discouraging it. You can't allow layups, that gives the other team an edge you can't afford to let them have. So instead, the game grinds to a halt while both teams end up in foul trouble.

I tell you, the stuff Shaq gets away with is old news, but it never ceases to amaze me. I guess he's just really hard to officiate with his freakish size. But the number of hooking fouls he commits as he clears a path to the basket is amazing. He had to practically remove Ben Wallace's dentition in game 5 to get whistled for a charge. I guess they couldn't look the other way when the defender was lying on the ground feeling around the court for his front teeth.

The Pistons had chances to win in games 2 and 3 and wasted them. If they give away games against the Spurs, they won't recover. The Spurs are a championship team just like the Pistons. Sloppiness will be punished immediately.

I agree with most of your points. Game 7 was pretty fair for the most part... certainly better than game 5. And it's wasn't like the whole Heat team was getting calls their way; it was just Shaq and D Wade for the most part.

IMO the key against the Spurs will be how well we defend Ginobili. Duncan will get his 20 pts and 10 boards, but Sheed should prevent him from dominating. Parker, who has yet to face ANY resistence in the playoffs thus far, should see his effectiveness limited for Hunter's persistent pressure. So that leaves Ginobili. I expect Prince to draw the assignement of guarding him, with a dose of Hamilton.

Rip however, must deal with Bruce Bowen on the other end, which is a tall order considering Bowen most recently reduced Shawn Marion to a bystander in the SA/Phoenix series. Offensively speaking Chauncey and Sheed MUST step up for Detroit and be more consistent for Detroit then they were against Miami (although Sheed may already have his hands full on D). Chauncey is the key since Parker is the weakest link in SA's team defence.

The thing that will really hurt us is the fact that the Spurs bench is far deeper and significantly better than ours. Given that we've just completed a grueling series against Miami, our lack of depth could become the deciding factor if the series goes deep. Also if Detroit hands San Antonio even 1 free game (as we did with that careless effort in Game 2 against Miami), we won't win the Series.

Prediction.... make that predictions (yes I'm being cheap!)

Detroit in 6, or SA in 7

Edited June 8, 2005 by Cruiser008

[BlueMonk 102]

The thing that will really hurt us is the fact that the Spurs bench is far deeper and significantly better than ours. Given that we've just completed a grueling series against Miami, our lack of depth could become the deciding factor if the series goes deep. Also if Detroit hands San Antonio even 1 free game (as we did with that careless effort in Game 2 against Miami), we won't win the Series.

Yeah, that's true. The Pistons bench is not as good. Although there are some key defensive reserves that make them a bit underrated. People look at the point production and it's not pretty. But when Arroyo comes in and assists one of the starters, that's an effective contribution that isn't showing up as bench points. The Spurs have much better scorers coming off the bench, and there's the very professional big game play of Robert Horry.

But in general, the Spurs are kind of like the Pistons only with a little more in the tank. They can afford to rest their starters more, while the Pistons play some key starters 45-48 minutes. The Spurs never do that. I have a lot of concerns about that.

[mattcorpolongo 0]

Did you all know Sunday night, Tayshaun, Lindsay Hunter, and Elden Campbell were in a car accident with 2 Miami Heat fans....Strange isn't it?

GO PISTONS!!! (Bring on the Black Eyed Peas Song)!!!!!!!

Edited June 7, 2005 by mattcorpolongo

[eva unit zero 271]

The ever (un)anticipated...

MATCHUP POST!

C Ben Wallace vs PF Tim Duncan

Wallace's defense vs Duncan's offense will be a big story during the series. Wallace has seriously limited Shaq twice now, and although more complete Duncan is easier for one guy to guard.

Edge: Even

PF Rasheed Wallace vs C Nazr Mohammed

Mohammed will have his hands full with Sheed, and this could really be key to the series. Mohammed will try to muscle Sheed around, but Sheed's quickness and his perimeter game will tear up the slower Mohammed.

Edge: Pistons

SF Tayshaun Prince vs SG Manu Ginobli

Prince is one of the best defensive players in the NBA. Ginobli is a hot guard scoring 20 points a game in the playoffs. The nagain, who has Ginobli played against that is really any good defensively? Prince could bring him back to earth.

Edge: Even

PG Chauncey Billups vs PG Tony Parker

Parker and Billups have both put up pretty strong numbers in the postseason. Billups is a top defensive guard, something Parker hasn't even come close to facing this playoff. Billups has builts his career on clutch performances and was last year's finals MVP.

Edge: Even

SG Rip Hamilton vs SF Bruce Bowen

Bowen was the runner-up for Defensive Player of the Year. Hamilton is scoring 20+ points a game and is the best conditioned athlete in the league, and the quickest guy in the series. Only Miami's Jones has put strong pressure on Rip, but Rip still scored 24 points a game in the series. Rip could still go nuts, or he could be held to the teens.

Edge: Even

Bench:

The Spurs have a better offensive bench with the likes of Horry and Robinson stepping in, and those guys are necessary with guys like Mohammed and Bowen on the floor. Detroit gets more scoring from their starters, so they can save their bench for the defensive specialists of a kind that San Antonio doesn't have. Elden Campbell has shown an ability to defend that a lot of really great players don't have. Lindsey hunter's pressure defense drives some guys nuts, and he could do the same kind of job on Parker or Ginobli he was doing on Wade when he was in.

Antonio McDyess and Brent Barry bring a bit of extra scoring and attitude to the bench as well.

Edge: Even

Coaching:

Detroit has Larry Brown. San Antonio has Gregg Popovich. They're close friends, mentor and student, same style, look for and implement similar personnel...they might even be the same coach.

Edge: Even.

This series is going to be very tight, defensive basketball with close games every go-round. The 2-3-2 matchup is definitely goign to favor the Pistons, and if they can steal one of the first two, they can probably wrap it up at home.

Prediction: Pistons in 5

[gowingsgo 3]

The ever (un)anticipated...

MATCHUP POST!

C Ben Wallace vs PF Tim Duncan

Wallace's defense vs Duncan's offense will be a big story during the series. Wallace has seriously limited Shaq twice now, and although more complete Duncan is easier for one guy to guard.

Edge: Even

If you call Duncan v Wallace even you are on the crack pipe. He'll beat you down low and he'll whip you on the high post. Tim Duncan is the best player in basketball bar none right now. There hasn't been a more complete player in the league since 23 was playing in Chicago.

The Pistons escaped with a victory in Miami. They won't escape with a win in San Antonio. San Antonio will protect their home court and will win in 5 or 6.

Bowen will shut down who ever he guards. See Shawn Marion if you can find him for reference.

You will see the dagger in this series come in the form of #5 with a straight away 3 to close you out in Detroit.

Can't wait for basketball to end so we can get some FOOTBALL to start watching soon.

[eva unit zero 271]

The ever (un)anticipated...

MATCHUP POST!

C Ben Wallace vs PF Tim Duncan

Wallace's defense vs Duncan's offense will be a big story during the series. Wallace has seriously limited Shaq twice now, and although more complete Duncan is easier for one guy to guard.

Edge: Even

If you call Duncan v Wallace even you are on the crack pipe. He'll beat you down low and he'll whip you on the high post. Tim Duncan is the best player in basketball bar none right now. There hasn't been a more complete player in the league since 23 was playing in Chicago.

The Pistons escaped with a victory in Miami. They won't escape with a win in San Antonio. San Antonio will protect their home court and will win in 5 or 6.

Bowen will shut down who ever he guards. See Shawn Marion if you can find him for reference.

You will see the dagger in this series come in the form of #5 with a straight away 3 to close you out in Detroit.

Can't wait for basketball to end so we can get some FOOTBALL to start watching soon.

Duncan was limited to 18 points in his one game against Detroit this season.

Granted, past is the past, but a guy who averages 25 points getting held to 18 is pretty significant.

But Ben is the best defensive player in the NBA, and he'll give Duncan all he can handle. Although I have put a little bit of thought into something.

Scenario 2:

C Ben Wallace vs C Nazr Mohammed

PF Rasheed Wallace vs PF Tim Duncan

With Ben on Mohammed, Rasheed forces Duncan to leave the paint. Ben will outwork and outquick Mohammed and get his double-doubles. Duncan's inside game will be limited because he has to prevent Sheed from being left uncontested for range shots. Sheed can't guard TD like Ben can, but he can cover well enough. With Nazr's pathetic offense, Ben can play help out on Duncan.

[gowingsgo 3]

Career Averages

PPG

22.5 PPG

12.2 RPG

He went for 18 and 18 v Detroit

Both teams shot very poorly in that game. Could be indicative of the defensive prowess of both teams or shooting in San Antonio's GINORMOUS building. The backdrop there isnt an easy one to handle

[BlueMonk 102]

Tim Duncan is the best player in basketball bar none right now.

Hobbled and old, Shaq is still on par with Duncan. Five years ago, it wasn't even close. Duncan's game is and has always been more versatile, but he's never been impossible to matchup against like Shaq was in his prime.

[Cruiser008 37]

One could argue that Duncan isn't even the best PF in the league (KG, even if he isn't better, is more versatile).

Timmy D may not have to guard Sheed though. Robert Horry I suspect will be used on Sheed early and often. Horry is actually very good defensively, not to mention a monster in the clutch.

[johnogrodnickfanclub 0]

Someone help me out...

Bruce Bowen...the times I have seen him play in the regular season, he looked like a very good perimeter defender but if someone drags him closer in and catches, he's not as good (still above average, but beatable)...

Is that his game? Or is he a good defender all over?

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

The Pistons arent the best at anything in the league, except finding a way to win. I think the Pistons will find a way to get this done, in spite of all the Spurs-love in the media.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Someone help me out...

Bruce Bowen...the times I have seen him play in the regular season, he looked like a very good perimeter defender but if someone drags him closer in and catches, he's not as good (still above average, but beatable)...

Is that his game? Or is he a good defender all over?

As far as the match-up, I say RIP >>>> Bowen. If nothing else, he's 8 years younger, and that much faster.

I say Billups >>> Parker also.

Duncan >>> anyone that defends him, Sheed or Ben. But his ankles are still bothering him, so maybe that will come into play, who knows.

Spurs are not invincible - remember last year's meltdown vs the Lakers? And look how the Pistons handled the Lakers after that.

Anyhow will be very tough - hopefully they keep some momentum from game 7 in Miami. Geese - lots of traveling, Miami-Detroit-Texas. They could be tired. Then again, Spurs could be rusty.

We'll find out tomorrow - go Pistons!

[eva unit zero 271]

Someone help me out...

Bruce Bowen...the times I have seen him play in the regular season, he looked like a very good perimeter defender but if someone drags him closer in and catches, he's not as good (still above average, but beatable)...

Is that his game? Or is he a good defender all over?

Bowen is the best defensive SF in basketball, and was runner up for Defender of the year.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

By Rasheeb Shrestha

FullSportPress.com

The San Antonio Spurs will be favored over the Detroit Pistons in the 2005 NBA Finals and rightfully so. San Antonio will have the rest, the home-court advantage and the best player on the floor. And, after witnessing the Eastern Conference Finals, don’t you think the Pistons should have beaten the banged-up Miami Heat more decisively?

That's a laugh and a half.

[johnogrodnickfanclub 0]

Someone help me out...

Bruce Bowen...the times I have seen him play in the regular season, he looked like a very good perimeter defender but if someone drags him closer in and catches, he's not as good (still above average, but beatable)...

Is that his game? Or is he a good defender all over?

Bowen is the best defensive SF in basketball, and was runner up for Defender of the year.

I know that's his reputation...and, granted, I saw maybe 4-5 Spurs games this season...but if the guy he was guarding didn't handle the ball on the perimeter, and instead caught the low and worked Bowen inside, Bowen did NOT look impressive...at all...

Did I just see bad days by Bowen...or is his entire rep built on his perimeter defense alone? Cuz he was a fantastic perimeter defender in the games I saw...