2/12 GDT: Red Wings @ Flyers

[RedLightGoesOn 81]

The words , Flyers , man-handled and red wings shouldnt be used in the same sentence , but Joey was awful , lilja wa sLilja , god even Lidstrom was bad tonight , It proves again we need toughness , if we dont get some , Lilja will be turtling in game 4 of the playoffs as the wings blow a lead and get swept.

Case and point for Betruzzi.

And the defensemen suck. Keep the veterans, trade the new guys for physical defensemen. Tonight showed one thing, if a team gets really physical we can kiss Zett and Dats goodbye. We need to have tough grit players who can answer to physical play. Thats why we have not seen the Cup finals let alone the Conference finals. Edmonton and Clagary were physical teams that shut down most of our guys. Honestly the Red Wings are in no shape for the Cup, and tonights performance proves it. So eventually we become number one and have home ice advantage, but it doesnt matter. Teams always step it up a notch in the playoffs, and physical play is what really I see a lot of. When playoffs come, the physical game is going to be a major part that teams will use to win. Thats why if we go up against Nashville, I have to say we are toast.

Bring Bertuzzi, and some physical defensemen and I think we might have a chance, but hopefully Babcock and Holland understand that we have to be able to play a physical game, by enduring and being tough right back. Hatcher and McCarty and Fischer were exellent defensemen, but we do not have them, we just have these new guys who dance like girls. When are we going to get some defensemen that will be bringing on the hurt to other teams? If we don't find a way to survive a physical game, then what really makes all of you think that we can win the Cup? Our goaltending was not the best but man Philly walked right over us. I feel bad for Joey because here he is trying to survive against Forsberg and other great players. If one person deserves a kudos for effort its Joey. Everyone else was just horrible.

[wingslogo19 281]

LOL. Really? I didn't know that.

I know i had to state the obvious

[Aussie_Wing 354]

We were absolutely mauled out there tonight. They punished us and unless we sign someone with size who is willing to hit, I’m deeply concerned for the playoffs. And of course it doesn’t help when you’re goalie is average at best.

I am absolutely sick and tired of Williams. He has to go, and yet he’s out there on the PP! What does Babcock see in this guy? And Lang, he can go to. I’m sick of his lack of effort and careless play. Our second line is awful; something has to be done.

And Lilja summed himself up when he put his hands over his head trying to protect himself.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We were absolutely mauled out there tonight. They punished us and unless we sign someone with size who is willing to hit, I’m deeply concerned for the playoffs. And of course it doesn’t help when you’re goalie is average at best.

I am absolutely sick and tired of Williams. He has to go, and yet he’s out there on the PP! What does Babcock see in this guy? And Lang, he can go to. I’m sick of his lack of effort and careless play. Our second line is awful; something has to be done.

And Lilja summed himself up when he put his hands over his head trying to protect himself.

Add Franzen to that list , he made that terrible turnover to tangauy agaisnt Clagary and Babcock had him out 2 seconds later on the PK ??!!!??

Get rid of Samuelson and Lilja , Franzen can go unless he smartens up and kronwall has looked terrible lately , I cant wait till Hasek and Osgood are healthy

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

We were absolutely mauled out there tonight. They punished us and unless we sign someone with size who is willing to hit, I’m deeply concerned for the playoffs. And of course it doesn’t help when you’re goalie is average at best.

I am absolutely sick and tired of Williams. He has to go, and yet he’s out there on the PP! What does Babcock see in this guy? And Lang, he can go to. I’m sick of his lack of effort and careless play. Our second line is awful; something has to be done.

i'm tired of that line too. why doesn't babs give flip and hudler 2nd line minutes? lang's line has been more of a liability than an asset of late.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Add Franzen to that list , he made that terrible turnover to tangauy agaisnt Clagary and Babcock had him out 2 seconds later on the PK ??!!!??

Get rid of Samuelson and Lilja , Franzen can go unless he smartens up and kronwall has looked terrible lately , I cant wait till Hasek and Osgood are healthy

I was going to mention Kronwall. He was pretty pathetic last night. I don’t get to see the Wings play too often but whenever I have, I must say he hasn't been all that impressive. Maybe I just catch him on off days but he’s been a letdown especially given all the hype.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Well.

This was all my fault, obviously. I had to leave at the end of the first, when it was tied 1-1. And look what happened. I haven't had the heart to watch the DVR'd last 40 minutes. Maybe I won't bother. Poor Joey Mac. Even on a very temporary basis, being the #1 ain't as easy as some guys make it look, huh? I am sure he did his best for us.

It will be OK, troops!! I will be glued to the game on Wednesday, vs. Dallas. I promise. Bad loo, leaving the poor Wings to fend for themselves.

Oh, and having Dom back in the nets won't hurt our chances, either. Let's hope he's back, anyway. Dallas is playing well right now, but they have to know this game did not represent the real Wings. They won't be taking anything for granted, and I know the Wings will come out strong and stay with it all 60 minutes.

Go, Red Wings!!

[kylee 727]

i personally wouldn't mind seeing Sammie, Franzen, Lilja or Williams go.

but the question is: what valuable player could we get from shipping these guys out?

People in this tread are totally right,

we need grit, and a tough player. defense or winger it doesnt matter.

it all brings me back to remembering Mac playing like a beast in 97 and scoring some timely goals..

ah yes.

[Flip-check 6]

This was all my fault, obviously. I had to leave at the end of the first, when it was tied 1-1. And look what happened. I haven't had the heart to watch the DVR'd last 40 minutes. Maybe I won't bother. Poor Joey Mac. Even on a very temporary basis, being the #1 ain't as easy as some guys make it look, huh? I am sure he did his best for us.

It will be OK, troops!! I will be glued to the game on Wednesday, vs. Dallas. I promise. Bad loo, leaving the poor Wings to fend for themselves.

hehe... forgive the annoying photographs lately, they won't be forever, promise.

Joey Mac forgives you, loo. After he stops crying himself to sleep over tonight.

[FinRedWing 172]

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here.

Detroit 6 (Dats x2, Schneids x2, Zetts, Homer)

Philly 0

Don't do it on Wednesday.

[Dominator2005 558]

Lilja vs Gauthier...

Gauthier did the same thing as Sourray couple weeks ago (when he went after Armstrong) and Pen's got 7 min. PP + game ejection for Sourray... Gauthier the PUNK got 2 min??? Ref's are joke!!!

[Bryguy 103]

Worst game ive had to endure in a while, its annoying when all you can do is sit back and watch your team get bullied around. Im getting sick of seeing Lilja and Franzen not use there frame, sick of the 2nd line floating out there. And the other lines are average at best. Pretty much we are just a one line team, who can be shut down by physical play.

Our Defense should be way better then that, i dont know what wrongs with kronner, maybes it the cage, maybe not. But its really dissapointing seeing his play, because we dont have to much sure things on defense, i thought he was a sure thing. But i guess we will have to hope he comes into his own next season, or in the playoffs whatever. No Jr nick, just Nik Kronwall, the guy who played well in the Olympics, Jrs. Wake up!

Holland has to clean house.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

so this game made it even more clear that we need some toughness. i mean come on. pull the freak'n trigger already and pick someone up.

[OsGOD 3]

Worst game ive had to endure in a while, its annoying when all you can do is sit back and watch your team get bullied around.

Yeah that feeling happens to me 82 games a season, win or lose... Damn I wish they didn't cut me so that I could actually make a difference in the out come of the game (either way)

[Bryguy 103]

Yeah that feeling happens to me 82 games a season, win or lose... Damn I wish they didn't cut me so that I could actually make a difference in the out come of the game (either way)

I meant it as watching my favorite team, but it doesnt matter. You have more people to quote and make fun of.

[OsGOD 3]

I meant it as watching my favorite team, but it doesnt matter. You have more people to quote and make fun of.

I sure do... But I wanted to start with your post

[BlueMonk 102]

Like Barnes said, a game like this really exposes the Wings for what they are. My only hope (and it's a pretty faint hope considering Holland's history of paying nothing more than lip service to the problem) is that the national attention this team's softness is getting will embarrass our GM into doing something about it. Everyone, everywhere, knows all you have to do is keep hitting this team and it will fall apart on the ice.

I'm with hockeycrazy on this. The score didn't even matter to me by the mid-point of this game. They let their goalie get run multiple times and nobody even took exception with it. The skilled players know that nobody has their back. The supposed gritty players on the team either do nothing or turtle when the time comes to face a challenge. "Disgrace" seems like an appropriate word for this team's intestinal fortitude.

It's a losing strategy, placing so little value on toughness. Hockey playoff teams need it to win in the playoffs. Time and time and time again, the Wings put zero premium on it. It goes without saying there there's no enforcer on this team. And never mind that there aren't any fighters at all. There isn't even a single example of a really mean, ornery player. Just a tough, gritty SOB who plays with an attitude. Not one. It's almost unbelievable. In the history of NHL hockey, what other team can you say that about? I honestly can't think of one.

[Zion 93]

Glad I'm not the only one who speaks up here, as I can't believe some of the rebuttals and nonchalance on other threads.

Toughness. Now.

[Hank 0]

Case and point for Betruzzi.

And the defensemen suck. Keep the veterans, trade the new guys for physical defensemen. Tonight showed one thing, if a team gets really physical we can kiss Zett and Dats goodbye. We need to have tough grit players who can answer to physical play. Thats why we have not seen the Cup finals let alone the Conference finals. Edmonton and Clagary were physical teams that shut down most of our guys. Honestly the Red Wings are in no shape for the Cup, and tonights performance proves it. So eventually we become number one and have home ice advantage, but it doesnt matter. Teams always step it up a notch in the playoffs, and physical play is what really I see a lot of. When playoffs come, the physical game is going to be a major part that teams will use to win. Thats why if we go up against Nashville, I have to say we are toast.

Bring Bertuzzi, and some physical defensemen and I think we might have a chance, but hopefully Babcock and Holland understand that we have to be able to play a physical game, by enduring and being tough right back. Hatcher and McCarty and Fischer were exellent defensemen, but we do not have them, we just have these new guys who dance like girls. When are we going to get some defensemen that will be bringing on the hurt to other teams? If we don't find a way to survive a physical game, then what really makes all of you think that we can win the Cup? Our goaltending was not the best but man Philly walked right over us. I feel bad for Joey because here he is trying to survive against Forsberg and other great players. If one person deserves a kudos for effort its Joey. Everyone else was just horrible.

Good post. This team is almost identical in makeup to the ones that got embarrased in the past 3 playoff years.

Just like you said, as soon as things get physical this team folds like a house of cards. It also doesn't help when we only have 1 line capable of scoring. And even on that line, only one player is the catalyst so if you cover Zetts you basically stop Detroit's entire offense. Dats has proven that he is ineffective as a point producer if he plays with subpar wingers or if his top sniper is guarded. Look at last year. So many people blamed Shanny for Datsyuk's poor performance but every team knows that if you take away Dat's main target you've nuetralized him from the game. Datsyuk cannot create produce goals without a sniper.

And despite everyone hating on Lang the only thing this guy's been able to do this year is make perennial 4th liner Dan Cleary into a 20 goal scorer.

This team needs grit and some heart if it's going to go anywhere in the playoffs. This is why I'm loathe to give up any picks or young kids to 'go for it'. Unless this team can bring in multiple players that can hit, compete and score, we're going nowhere.

But if we are going to mortgage the future I hope we can pick up the following players:

Guerin or Tkachuk, Roberts or Bertuzzi and Lapointe. I know people scoff at the idea of bringing Marty back but this dude is a playoff horse. He hits, competes, pays the price and he scores in the playoffs. Put him with Zetts and Dats and he'll clear enough room for both.

Stick Guerin or Tkachuk with Lang and see what this guy can really do. Remember, he once nearly won the Art Ross trophy. Only the trade to Detroit stopped that.

And if you put Roberts on the 3rd line you would get some scoring while adding a valuable leader with loads of heart and grit as well as another option on the PP.

I'm excited for the future because the Wings finally have some North American kids in the cupboard that have some grit. Something this team has sorely lacked for years now. I would hate to see them get dealt for broken, former superstars who might spend an entire week with the team before he gets injured again.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Hank

[Hank 0]

Like Barnes said, a game like this really exposes the Wings for what they are. My only hope (and it's a pretty faint hope considering Holland's history of paying nothing more than lip service to the problem) is that the national attention this team's softness is getting will embarrass our GM into doing something about it. Everyone, everywhere, knows all you have to do is keep hitting this team and it will fall apart on the ice.

I'm with hockeycrazy on this. The score didn't even matter to me by the mid-point of this game. They let their goalie get run multiple times and nobody even took exception with it. The skilled players know that nobody has their back. The supposed gritty players on the team either do nothing or turtle when the time comes to face a challenge. "Disgrace" seems like an appropriate word for this team's intestinal fortitude.

It's a losing strategy, placing so little value on toughness. Hockey playoff teams need it to win in the playoffs. Time and time and time again, the Wings put zero premium on it. It goes without saying there there's no enforcer on this team. And never mind that there aren't any fighters at all. There isn't even a single example of a really mean, ornery player. Just a tough, gritty SOB who plays with an attitude. Not one. It's almost unbelievable. In the history of NHL hockey, what other team can you say that about? I honestly can't think of one.

Man, I love this post too!

I was just talking to a colleague about the old 80's Wings team. We had guys like Snepts, Gallant, Norwood, Kocur and of course Probie. And even Dave Barr would throw them with bad intentions from time to time. If anyone looked at Stevie crosseyed they got a punch in the face. Cross the blueline and get a stick on the mouth. Nobody F'd with the Wings.

Now we have a pile of panzy's that run for mommy the minute someone pushes us around. I mean, that was PHILLY for crying out loud that had their way with us. Chris Farley had an easier time behind the woodshed with the devil than the Wings had in the Spectrum last night.

And you're absolutely right when you say that Holland doesn't give enough value to toughness and has neglected this obvious need for years now. Cory Cross? Are you kidding me?

When the Wings won those Cups they might not have had a goon by tradional standards but they had guys like Shanny, McCarty and Lapointe that would stand up for their teammates. Now we have nobody. Watching the Flyers run our goalie time and time again without so much as a sneeze from the Wings made me sick. And you know that it made Babcock sick too.

We're the biggest pile of Nancy's in the NHL and it should shock nobody when we get bullied out of the playoffs in round 1 again.

Recipe for upsetting the Wings = physical play with aggressive forecheck on our old defense.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Hank

[sibiriak 84]

Man, I love this post too!

I was just talking to a colleague about the old 80's Wings team. We had guys like Snepts, Gallant, Norwood, Kocur and of course Probie. And even Dave Barr would throw them with bad intentions from time to time. If anyone looked at Stevie crosseyed they got a punch in the face. Cross the blueline and get a stick on the mouth. Nobody F'd with the Wings.

Now we have a pile of panzy's that run for mommy the minute someone pushes us around. I mean, that was PHILLY for crying out loud that had their way with us. Chris Farley had an easier time behind the woodshed with the devil than the Wings had in the Spectrum last night.

And you're absolutely right when you say that Holland doesn't give enough value to toughness and has neglected this obvious need for years now. Cory Cross? Are you kidding me?

When the Wings won those Cups they might not have had a goon by tradional standards but they had guys like Shanny, McCarty and Lapointe that would stand up for their teammates. Now we have nobody. Watching the Flyers run our goalie time and time again without so much as a sneeze from the Wings made me sick. And you know that it made Babcock sick too.

We're the biggest pile of Nancy's in the NHL and it should shock nobody when we get bullied out of the playoffs in round 1 again.

Recipe for upsetting the Wings = physical play with aggressive forecheck on our old defense.

Yay, bring back the "Dead Wings" of the 80s. This current team (2 pts away from leading the league) obviously sucks!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yay, bring back the "Dead Wings" of the 80s. This current team (2 pts away from leading the league) obviously sucks!

They were no longer the Dead Wings then.

The 1986-7 team with Probie, Dave Barr, Snepsts, Kocur, Gallant and Norwood finished second in the Norris division (though admittedly it was a weak division) and made it to the Conference finals, only to lose to eventual Cup winning Edmonton Oilers.

[sibiriak 84]

They were no longer the Dead Wings then.

The 1986-7 team with Probie, Dave Barr, Snepsts, Kocur, Gallant and Norwood finished second in the Norris division (though admittedly it was a weak division) and made it to the Conference finals, only to lose to eventual Cup winning Edmonton Oilers.

That was before I started following the Wings, so I didn't catch the fine distinction between "the old 80s Wings team" and "the old 80s Wings team with Probie, Dave Barr, Snepsts, Kocur, Gallant and Norwood". My bad. I'd guess the watershed moment came in 1986?

[BlueMonk 102]

This current team (2 pts away from leading the league) obviously sucks!

You want regular season points or playoff success? The teams we're talking about were successful in the playoffs.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

That was before I started following the Wings, so I didn't catch the fine distinction between "the old 80s Wings team" and "the old 80s Wings team with Probie, Dave Barr, Snepsts, Kocur, Gallant and Norwood". My bad. I'd guess the watershed moment came in 1986?

pretty much. They went from not making the playoffs, to having Demers come in and they made it to the conference finals two years in a row. They came back from being down games to one against Toronto to go on to the conference finals that year in 86. That comeback was like the Stanley Cup for Red Wings fans.

And to be clear, I don't think the Wings need out and out enforcers on the team, but they do need players with grit and toughness. Look at a team like Anaheim. They're fast, big, and tough.

Edited February 13, 2007 by haroldsnepsts