One Line Wins

[scotzman 29]

This is getting ridiculous...

Not saying that I don't love the play of Z, Pavel & Homer, but come on already! Lang & Williams are practically worthless out there. Lang couldn't even carry the puck in over the line tonight and looked like he had cement boots on... Williams... what the hell do you say about this guy? He missed an open net at the end of the game twice... his third chance finally went in.

Kenny has to do something...

The minute the Coyotes decided to put on the physical pressure in the third, things started to fall apart. Luckily, we have enough talent to overcome a lot of bonehead plays, but something has to change.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The second line useless? NO WAY!

[Guest Tunbo Batman]

is ANYTHING AT ALL gonna work in the playoffs folks? when we lose, we are doomed. when we win a tight one, we barely overcame a weakteam. when we win by multiple goals, those easy wins are gonna make us soft. when everybody scores, we don't have a gamebreaker. when a guy has a hat trick, we have no depth.

NEWS FLASH : WE HAVE A GREAT TEAM. WE HAVE THE MOST REGULATION TIME WINS IN THE NHL.

just wait till the playoffs and relax.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

is ANYTHING AT ALL gonna work in the playoffs folks? when we lose, we are doomed. when we win a tight one, we barely overcame a weakteam. when we win by multiple goals, those easy wins are gonna make us soft. when everybody scores, we don't have a gamebreaker. when a guy has a hat trick, we have no depth.

NEWS FLASH : WE HAVE A GREAT TEAM. WE HAVE THE MOST REGULATION TIME WINS IN THE NHL.

just wait till the playoffs and relax.

If your top scorer goes down, and you cant win a game, you arent a good team. If Hank went down 3 games ago, the last two games wouldve been losses.

Its one thing when your first line dominates, with your second line making contributions here and there. But when your second line is DEAD, your team will soon be too.

[Guest Crymson]

This is getting ridiculous...

Not saying that I don't love the play of Z, Pavel & Homer, but come on already! Lang & Williams are practically worthless out there. Lang couldn't even carry the puck in over the line tonight and looked like he had cement boots on... Williams... what the hell do you say about this guy? He missed an open net at the end of the game twice... his third chance finally went in.

Kenny has to do something...

The minute the Coyotes decided to put on the physical pressure in the third, things started to fall apart. Luckily, we have enough talent to overcome a lot of bonehead plays, but something has to change.

Gee, thanks for your insight. No, seriously, how many people do you think have said this? And how many people do you think have followed it up with "Kenny needs to do something, like sign a top six winger and somebody who can fight"?

Honestly, man, I don't mean any offense-- but what is the use of this thread? We're all aware of the issue, and awareness is about the limit of what anyone on this board can achieve. The rest is up to the management.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Crymson

[scotzman 29]

Gee, thanks for your insight. No, seriously, how many people do you think have said this? And how many people do you think have followed it up with "Kenny needs to do something, like sign a top six winger and somebody who can fight"?

Honestly, man, I don't mean any offense-- but what is the use of this thread? We're all aware of the issue, and awareness is about the limit of what anyone on this board can achieve. The rest is up to the management.

Gee, thanks for your uplifting comments. Not sure how many people have said this, but why don't you find out for me so we have a good headcount. After that check into the "Kenny" comments too and get back to me.

I thought the idea behind posting on the boards is to give your opinion or share your thoughts... thanks for sharing yours.

Why did you even waste your time responding to my "useless" thread?

No offense.

[kylee 727]

Yeah i've noticed that really only the 1st line is producing right now.

the rest of the boys will come around.

we've seen Langer and Clearly get theirs.

Im not worried much..

i mean

now, it would be a big time problem if we were losing and the 1st liners were the only one putting things up.

but at the end of the day i can rest at ease because i know that good ole Bobby Lang is lazy and he sucks.

DOOM AND GLOOM!!@$#$$#

[scotzman 29]

but at the end of the day i can rest at ease because i know that good ole Bobby Lang is lazy and he sucks.

DOOM AND GLOOM!!@$#$$#

Nice

[Guest Crymson]

Gee, thanks for your uplifting comments. Not sure how many people have said this, but why don't you find out for me so we have a good headcount. After that check into the "Kenny" comments too and get back to me.

I thought the idea behind posting on the boards is to give your opinion or share your thoughts... thanks for sharing yours.

Why did you even waste your time responding to my "useless" thread?

No offense.

It is useless not only because you have said things that MANY others have said, but--even more so--because you bring up problems without espousing solutions. In the end, solutions are not in our hands--rather in the hands of the players, coaching staff and management--but handy dandy threads that don't even make a token suggestion on solving the problem are pretty bad.

[scotzman 29]

It is useless not only because you have said things that MANY others have said, but--even more so--because you bring up problems without espousing solutions. In the end, solutions are not in our hands--rather in the hands of the players, coaching staff and management--but handy dandy threads that don't even make a token suggestion on solving the problem are pretty bad.

Under those pretenses, no one can say anything on these boards... unless of course they want to rip the thoughts of others. I'm sure MANY people have said exactly what you said to me about my "useless" thread to one of the countless MANY who have brought up problems without "espousing" (you get exta points for those big words) solutions. As I suggested before, why even respond? Are you the problems without solutions police?

You seem to have a real issue with this whole "problem without a solution" thing... I guess the solutions are quite obvious to me.

1) Either Holland needs to make some trades to improve the team

2) Babcock needs to motivate/coach the team to overcome their dificiencies

3) The players need to take their play to a higher level.

4) Combination of all three

Now I wouldn't want to pontificate on what Mr. Holland would need to trade for, because MANY others have done that already... I wouldn't know exactly how to elevate the play of the team, nor begin to think of how to coach or motivate them since I have no experience in those arenas either. So I guess I will just have to point out things that I think are wrong with the team and hope that a bright mind such as yours comes up with a solution.

Edited February 18, 2007 by scotzman

[Guest Tunbo Batman]

ooob-tss-oobb-tsss-oobb (dance music)

this is how you guys sound.

If your top scorer goes down, and you cant win a game, you arent a good team. If Hank went down 3 games ago, the last two games wouldve been losses.

right, right. and you remember that 9-2 win in phoenix? if the coyotes had scored 5 more goals, and the wings had scored 3 less, it would also have been a loss. but hey, we WON. if someone struggles. someone else takes over.

[Guest Crymson]

Under those pretenses, no one can say anything on these boards... unless of course they want to rip the thoughts of others. I'm sure MANY people have said exactly what you said to me about my "useless" thread to one of the countless MANY who have brought up problems without "espousing" (you get exta points for those big words) solutions. As I suggested before, why even respond? Are you the problems without solutions police?

You seem to have a real issue with this whole "problem without a solution" thing... I guess the solutions are quite obvious to me.

1) Either Holland needs to make some trades to improve the team

2) Babcock needs to motivate/coach the team to overcome their dificiencies

3) The players need to take their play to a higher level.

4) Combination of all three

Now I wouldn't want to pontificate on what Mr. Holland would need to trade for, because MANY others have done that already... I wouldn't know exactly how to elevate the play of the team, nor begin to think of how to coach or motivate them since I have no experience in those arenas either. So I guess I will just have to point out things that I think are wrong with the team and hope that a bright mind such as yours comes up with a solution.

Roger that. I do indeed try to expand and utilize my vast vocabulary wherever and whenever possible. I will add 'exta' to that vast database. Is this a synonym for 'extra'?

You can count on my intelligence, yes sir-- solutions will be forthcoming. However, they will be held back from you, as the complexity would cause your head to explode.

[<nightwing> 0]

Lang is in a slump, Cleary works hard and Willams just sucks . I hope we get Guerin for that line and dump Williams. im pretty happy with the way this team has played to this point. Most of the forwards had slumps this year and pulled out of it, but not Williams.

That trade would work out pretty well in my opinion. Two good scoring lines will make me feel alot better about Detroits chances in the playoffs this year. its been lack of scoring that sends them off to the golf course way too early.

[Guest Crymson]

Lang is in a slump, Cleary works hard and Willams just sucks . I hope we get Guerin for that line and dump Williams. im pretty happy with the way this team has played to this point. Most of the forwards had slumps this year and pulled out of it, but not Williams.

That trade would work out pretty well in my opinion. Two good scoring lines will make me feel alot better about Detroits chances in the playoffs this year. its been lack of scoring that sends them off to the golf course way too early.

I think that, especially in '03 and '04, the opposing goaltender has been the cause of lack of scoring--it was not lack of scoring talent on those teams. The same was true, to a lesser extent, last year.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

It is of concern, yes, but at least the team is still winning in spite of one line producing so far. Great team defense will do that for ya, and minus the Philadelphia game and a 'Yotes comeback after the final score was all but settled early, the defensive has been top notch lately. Not overly phyiscal (as expected for better/worse from this team), but I don't see many good 2nd chance shots off rebounds, they clear the zone good, etc. etc.

Anyways back to the issue at hand and this is not taking into consideration any trades that may happen up to the deadline.....

Draper/Franzen/Maltby's role is obvious. Defense first and stop the top lines from creating havoc. It would be nice if they could contribute some goals here/there, but that's not their primary job (first).

The current 4th line of Rex/Flipper/Langfeld. I don't know if getting Kopecky back will be that huge of a difference vs. Langfeld. Honestly, I don't know Kopecky and Langfeld that well and never heard of them before they played with the Wings this year, I just don't know their games enough where I should say something like "Kopecky is night/day better than Langfeld".

Lang/Cleary/Williams...I think Samuelsson coming back could really help this line. He gets a lot of crap in here, and yes sometimes I think he takes a bit too many clear/unscreened shots, but at least he's willing to shoot. You don't know when a goofy rebound could pop up. He's not a dominating force out there but he's not all that soft and will go in for the ugly goal every now and then. I wouldn't say Williams is ultimately killing that line, but I'd like to try Rex or Flipper at his spot for a while. I don't see Lang/Cleary being broken up soon, so this is the line that really needs to get it done more to help out the 1st.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Homer...The line that is producing right now obviously. If a trade could be made to better this team to get somebody like Tkachuk, Nolan, Guerin, etc. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of breaking this line up (unless they just completely snag). No knock on Holmstrom, but Zetterberg/Datsyuk can make anybody on that line look good, whoever fills that 3rd spot, but Holmstrom I think completes that line. He has a different, less-talented game than the other 2 which involves primarily going to the net for goals within 10 feet, something that Zetterberg/Datsyuk don't do as much.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I think that, especially in '03 and '04, the opposing goaltender has been the cause of lack of scoring--it was not lack of scoring talent on those teams. The same was true, to a lesser extent, last year.

Now here is a guy who says something very smart vs. sounding smart via his vocabulary! Manny was truly our undoing when all was said and done last round with the Oilers. Goal tending is essential and we did not have it the past two playoff seasons while the other team did. Sure some players certainly could have stepped up more, but the foundation is the guy in net. That said, I feel good about Hasek this year. Lord, just protect him from injury. In the mean time Sammy, Lang, Williams and Hudler are all on the block for anyone we can find and it doesn't have to be a top 6 forward. Give me heart and a player who oozes hunger over lacsidasical play.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Maybe Lang will do like he did last year and SHOW UP IN THE PLAYOFFS. Draper plays with a level of intensity, Maltby even picks it up. Considering we have those notorious players who don't show up, we also have those players who do. Also, who could forget, the Dominator. The essential part of playoff success usually depends on the goaltending at least 50%, and that's a very minimal number.

I'm not worried about this year's playoffs, and you know, I WAS worried about the last two. Could be a sign.

[RedRum #1 0]

I dont appreciate how the threadstarter got killed for stating a fact....our 2nd line is at the point of being a liability and could potentially kill Detroit's playoff chances. I define slumping as creating chances but getting the bad breaks and bounces associated with "puck luck" and things working their way out. Lang, Williams and Cleary arent creating much at all offensively, and really struggle in their own end. IMO that's not a slump...that's a weak line that only provided offense when Cleary had a Sean Donovan-esque stretch where everything went in.

[detroitsportstore 0]

Only time will tell. However, I see no reason why our second and third lines cant pick up the pace a bit here. They are plent talented.

[Zeke 5]

It is of concern, yes, but at least the team is still winning in spite of one line producing so far. Great team defense will do that for ya, and minus the Philadelphia game and a 'Yotes comeback after the final score was all but settled early, the defensive has been top notch lately. Not overly phyiscal (as expected for better/worse from this team), but I don't see many good 2nd chance shots off rebounds, they clear the zone good, etc. etc.

Anyways back to the issue at hand and this is not taking into consideration any trades that may happen up to the deadline.....

Draper/Franzen/Maltby's role is obvious. Defense first and stop the top lines from creating havoc. It would be nice if they could contribute some goals here/there, but that's not their primary job (first).

The current 4th line of Rex/Flipper/Langfeld. I don't know if getting Kopecky back will be that huge of a difference vs. Langfeld. Honestly, I don't know Kopecky and Langfeld that well and never heard of them before they played with the Wings this year, I just don't know their games enough where I should say something like "Kopecky is night/day better than Langfeld".

Lang/Cleary/Williams...I think Samuelsson coming back could really help this line. He gets a lot of crap in here, and yes sometimes I think he takes a bit too many clear/unscreened shots, but at least he's willing to shoot. You don't know when a goofy rebound could pop up. He's not a dominating force out there but he's not all that soft and will go in for the ugly goal every now and then. I wouldn't say Williams is ultimately killing that line, but I'd like to try Rex or Flipper at his spot for a while. I don't see Lang/Cleary being broken up soon, so this is the line that really needs to get it done more to help out the 1st.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Homer...The line that is producing right now obviously. If a trade could be made to better this team to get somebody like Tkachuk, Nolan, Guerin, etc. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of breaking this line up (unless they just completely snag). No knock on Holmstrom, but Zetterberg/Datsyuk can make anybody on that line look good, whoever fills that 3rd spot, but Holmstrom I think completes that line. He has a different, less-talented game than the other 2 which involves primarily going to the net for goals within 10 feet, something that Zetterberg/Datsyuk don't do as much.

Babcock finally took Williams off the point of the power play.When was the last time he 'tinkered 'with the lines that

weren't working? I know the cards are the same.but shuffling the deck can give you a new look.

[Guest Crymson]

Babcock finally took Williams off the point of the power play.When was the last time he 'tinkered 'with the lines that

weren't working? I know the cards are the same.but shuffling the deck can give you a new look.

It isn't easy finding lines that work, nor shifting strategies. Flip Saunders can be just as rigid--however, he and Babcock have good qualities that far outweigh any drawbacks.

Anyway, on the "one line wins" issue, remember that almost every team in the league depends on its top line for the W. In any case, what has been said here about "not gonna cut it in the playoffs" is pure conjecture.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Normally I would defend Williams in this space, since in the past he's been producing. I don't care how the goals happen, they just do. But he sure hasn't been racking up the numbers lately. Blatantly missing an empty net doesn't really help his cause any

[evil204 4]

Lang is in a slump, Cleary works hard and Willams just sucks . I hope we get Guerin for that line and dump Williams. im pretty happy with the way this team has played to this point. Most of the forwards had slumps this year and pulled out of it, but not Williams.

That trade would work out pretty well in my opinion. Two good scoring lines will make me feel alot better about Detroits chances in the playoffs this year. its been lack of scoring that sends them off to the golf course way too early.

Why would anyone ever want Williams? He makes $1.6 million and he can't even hit the empty net!!!

Lang doesn't have much value either, since this is the last year of his contract (I think). Too bad... I think we're screwed.

By the way, what the hell happened to Samuelsson?

[GuloGulo 0]

Why would anyone ever want Williams? He makes $1.6 million and he can't even hit the empty net!!!

Lang doesn't have much value either, since this is the last year of his contract (I think). Too bad... I think we're screwed.

By the way, what the hell happened to Samuelsson?

Samuelsson was on pace for around 60 pts this season before getting injured.

[Guest ZetterBurger40]

This is getting ridiculous...

Not saying that I don't love the play of Z, Pavel & Homer, but come on already! Lang & Williams are practically worthless out there. Lang couldn't even carry the puck in over the line tonight and looked like he had cement boots on... Williams... what the hell do you say about this guy? He missed an open net at the end of the game twice... his third chance finally went in.

Kenny has to do something...

The minute the Coyotes decided to put on the physical pressure in the third, things started to fall apart. Luckily, we have enough talent to overcome a lot of bonehead plays, but something has to change.

Our first line is FINALLY playing like our first line. They SHOULD BE our primary source of offense. Earlier in the season when Dats and Z weren't scoring, Lang and Cleary picked up the slack; Dan Cleary should NEVER be our team's leading scorer. This team, mainly the first line, is doing what it should be doing- hopefully it continues.