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HockeyCrazy3033

Good job Babs; Now win or else

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Not realistic....but very much the case. The Wings ownership may view being in the final four as a very successful season, not me as a die hard fan. I don't sell tickets. I don't sell Wings garb. I don't operate a veding station at the Joe. Very successful season to who? I didn't get to run around my neighborhood scaring neighbors completley drunk banging pots and pans screaming "We Won The Cup!!!"

Success is measured by results. To measure success in the NHL means only ONE THING, the Stanley Cup. I agree, it's very nice to get deep into the playoffs, but I wouldn't say being in the final four teams in the NHL is a very successful season. Good season-yes. But who will care about that in five years--NADA-Nobody.

And yes, I (or we Wings fans) may be "spoiled" to expect this, but we've created are own situation. We give A LOT to our hockey team in this town-and what they give back is dependent on there success throughout the season and ultimatley the playoffs. And just as it says in the Wings locker room, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" Don't hate on us cause we strive for the ulitimate goal of winning the Stanley Cup every year. And please don't give me this warm and fuzzy "it's just great to be a fan, and we love our players and there contributions to the community, they're such great guys, they try really hard, etc...." I'm not dating them so I could care less if they're nice guys and try really hard. It's the NHL--See Charles Darwin.

No offense, the majority of your post couldn't be further from the truth IMO, especially the bolded parts. Is that the case for the New York Islanders this year? No, its just to make the playoffs. To sit here and say its Cup or Bust, and that success only means one thing is completely false.

When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me. Now of course I agree with, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into effect that this is *HOCKEY*. Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.

That being said, with the changes this team has made, there is no reason they shouldn't go deep in the playoffs, and god willing, they win it all, but to say that if they get beat by Anaheim in the WCF's or Buffalo in the SCF's is a failure is just plain being spoiled.

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The best way to analyse Babcock's success is to compare his performance to Scotty Bowman's tenure in Detroit.

Bowman had a much better team. He lost in the first round in 94, the cup finals in 95, and the conference finals in 96, before finally winning the cup in 97.

The key is, management contimued to tweak the roster until Bowman was happy.

As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.

Keep Babcock.

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The real truth is that there could be 3 teams in this league that are all equally fantastic and only 1 is going to win. Should the other 2 be dismantled?

This is hockey...a million things could determine the success of a team..injuries, bad bounces, and other intangibles that would be impossible to estimate.

I think Babs has been doing a good job. I don't see why we'd get rid of him because of 1 or 2 losing post seasons...everyone deserves a couple of chances...usually winning is a process. Figure out what works and what doesn't. Every time we lose we find out what doesn't work...and every time we get new people we go back to square 1 not knowing how they will fit in the system, etc. That's why you have to pick and choose what you change...and I'm happy that I believe in my heart that is what Ken Holland will do. He won't make rash decisions, but small things that will improve the team.

That's why, imo, Babs will be back next year, rain or shine. Barring something crazy happening.

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No offense, the majority of your post couldn't be further from the truth IMO, especially the bolded parts. Is that the case for the New York Islanders this year? No, its just to make the playoffs. To sit here and say its Cup or Bust, and that success only means one thing is completely false.

When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me. Now of course I agree with, "To whom much is given, much is expected!" The problem with your reasoning is that it doesn't take into effect that this is *HOCKEY*. Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.

That being said, with the changes this team has made, there is no reason they shouldn't go deep in the playoffs, and god willing, they win it all, but to say that if they get beat by Anaheim in the WCF's or Buffalo in the SCF's is a failure is just plain being spoiled.

I appreciate your statements above. I however had to read it four times to seperate the random sentences thrown in. :unsure:

Point One: When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me.--????OK. I guess I never researched everything you've "said" before, and furthermore, I never referred to anything you've ever posted before. Were you using your "outside voice" to speak to someone besides me??

Point Two: Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.--???. This is so random I guess I don't know what your point is. My response to the "bad bounces" statement is, if your teams season is ended by a bad bounce, your team really wasn't going to play much longer anyway. I don't care how many people the puck bounces of off??(three...I guess??). Basketball--I don't get it...did I miss something...was there a comparison to basketball?? Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.

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Oh please, you dunce, team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.

Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.

And this just makes you an *******.

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Oh please, you dunce, team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.

And this just makes you an *******.

Thanks for your thoughts.

WOW....you seem very angry...so much that you direct personal attacks and profanity towards me. :o

I wasn't trying to imply that NFM#25 was dumb, or his points were not valid (in fact...I even commented that I appreciated his points), his message was just so scattered that it took some focus to read through.

Dunce, huh. Ask around, in lieu of having any intellegent input to an argument,... some people often revert to personal attacks. No big deal, please don't let this get you down.

And to your point, in a seven game series, the best team at that time always wins. Please think about this before you fire off a profanity laced attack in my direction. I come to this forum for hockey and Wings intellect, nothing else.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

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I appreciate your statements above. I however had to read it four times to seperate the random sentences thrown in. :unsure:

Point One: When the hell have you have ever heard me (NFM#25) say anything like I have bolded in your last paragraph? Please find it for me.--????OK. I guess I never researched everything you've "said" before, and furthermore, I never referred to anything you've ever posted before. Were you using your "outside voice" to speak to someone besides me??

I was referring to you. This is what you said in one of your previous replies to me:

“And please don't give me this warm and fuzzy "it's just great to be a fan, and we love our players and there contributions to the community, they're such great guys, they try really hard, etc...." I'm not dating them so I could care less if they're nice guys and try really hard.”

If your going to tell me not to give the type of response you warned my not to in this above post, then you should prove to me where I’ve ever said something like that. Otherwise, don’t assume I’ll say something like that.

Point Two: Teams get bad bounces, pucks bounce off 3 players and somehow find a way into the net, a team gets injured (see the 05/06 payoff Buffalo Sabres). This sport isn't like Basketball. A lot of times the President's trophy winner doesn't get to hoist the cup that season.--???. This is so random I guess I don't know what your point is. My response to the "bad bounces" statement is, if your teams season is ended by a bad bounce, your team really wasn't going to play much longer anyway. I don't care how many people the puck bounces of off??(three...I guess??). Basketball--I don't get it...did I miss something...was there a comparison to basketball?? Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

Thank you for making me laugh and realize that paying attention in school was a good thing.

:nonono:

If you want a real response, give me a real one. I generally don't respond to this type of childish garbage, but since you posted one legitmate question in your response, I'll answer you:

The fact of the matter is that bad bounces sometimes are the difference in who moves on and who goes home. And you didn't even respond to my post about the Sabres woes last postseason (and I didn't even mention the flu bug that hit the Rangers last April).

The point that HOH made is very valid:

team's seasons live and die on bounces and breaks every year. That's hockey. An evenly matched game can go down to lucky play. Sometimes the best team doesn't always win.

The reason I brought up Basketball is because when 1 seed plays an 8, you can all but guarantee the 1 seed will make it through. It's not the case in the NHL. Obviously that was over your head.

Sidenote: Comments like these can make you look like an ass as well:

Presidents trophy doesn't get to hoist the cup (no Sh#@!!...thanks for bringing us all up to speed on how the hockey playoffs work).

We were having a decent debate until you starting throwing stuff like this around.

Edited by Never Forget Mac #25

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I wasn't trying to imply that NFM#25 was dumb, or his points were not valid (in fact...I even commented that I appreciated his points), his message was just so scattered that it took some focus to read through.

Liar. That was an insult if I've ever seen one. Implying that the author did not pay attention in school is not conducive to civil discussion.

Dunce, huh. Ask around, in lieu of having any intellegent input to an argument,... some people often revert to personal attacks. No big deal, please don't let this get you down.

Wipe the scum out of your eyes and see that I made a very valid point.

And to your point, in a seven game series, the best team at that time always wins.

The '05 Sabres are a good example of why you're wrong.

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by no stretch do I want this to play out ... but if we do go down in the first round. I pray that it is an absolute WAR on the ice. And everyone in the league know's it.

But back to the topic. It sucks to be in the posistion of the coach. Generally it's where the axe falls first. But who could replace Babs? What could they do different with the lineup we have?

I agree. The coach puts them in the position to win, but ultimately, the players have to want it. Last year, they did not. If they don't this year, I don't say fire Babs. I say fire the team.

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The best way to analyse Babcock's success is to compare his performance to Scotty Bowman's tenure in Detroit.

Bowman had a much better team. He lost in the first round in 94, the cup finals in 95, and the conference finals in 96, before finally winning the cup in 97.

The key is, management continued to tweak the roster until Bowman was happy.

As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.

Keep Babcock.

I agree. It took 4 years for Bowman to win a cup, Babcock is only in year 2. Winning a Stanley Cup takes a few years. Babs is working to make us more playoff ready. I like what I see and I still want him around next year even if we lose in the 1st round.

I want to see the Wings win the Cup as much as the next guy, but there's no clear cut favorite. One of 6 teams can realistically take it.

The reason I brought up Basketball is because when 1 seed plays an 8, you can all but guarantee the 1 seed will make it through. It's not the case in the NHL. Obviously that was over your head.

Right, which is why sometimes I find it funny that people make such a big deal when the 7th or 8th seeds take out 2nd and 1st. With the defensive systems teams are allowed to play, it happens every year in the NHL.

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As Ryan Barnes! says, it would be a mistake to let Babcock go, even if Detroit lose in the first round to San Jose. Babcock is slowly forging a new identity for this Wings team. Keep tweaking the roster until it works.

I think Babs has been doing a good job. I don't see why we'd get rid of him because of 1 or 2 losing post seasons...

We're not spoiled after all? Are we scared and preparing for the worst?

Nah,I know you all hope and believe.

Well,most of you anyways. :D

Right, which is why sometimes I find it funny that people make such a big deal when the 7th or 8th seeds take out 2nd and 1st. With the defensive systems teams are allowed to play, it happens every year in the NHL.

No s***.

Edited by FinRedWing

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I'm sorry guys but if you think grit is all it takes to win the cup then you are sadly mistaken. A good playoff team IMO has a good combination of grit+ good coaching+ skill+good health+ good goaltending. The latter being the most important. At times the goaltending can be the only major factor (with a little from the others, ex. Buffalo Sabres of 99 playoffs). To those who think grit can get you all the way well..let's look at this years Phoenix Coyotes. A couple gritty guys there in Nolan, Boynton, Jovo-cop, Doan, Scratchard and Laraque to name a few. What do they lack? Well obviously coaching and maybe health(arguable). if Mike Babcock was coaching this yotes team, I guarantee you that the yotes would 'be in the playoffs right now and probably with a few other additions as well. If the wings were to fire Babcock that would be a horrific decision and another team would ****** him just like that.

That's my 2 cents..to sum it up, don't fire Mike Babcock until you give him the team he wants.

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I really hope Babs stays around for a long time. I think he's a great, fiesty coach and he's exactly what the Wings need. He's a perfect fit for this team.

the nashville guys were talking about how he doesnt beat around the bush either, hes so straightforward and easy to understand, i think thats good :clap:

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No s***.

I've been whining and complaining for years that the NHL seems to caiter to it's lower seeds in the 1st round. For some reason people like it when the underdog takes out a top dog. Then they wonder why the remaining rounds are so :zzz: and the tv ratings are low.

You got to hand it to the NBA, they take care of their best teams. They know what brings in the tv ratings and keeps things exciting in the later rounds.

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Guest LivingtheDream   
Guest LivingtheDream

This quote from Babcock today left me scratching my head:

"We play short shifts and go after the other team, we're going to be a good team. We don't, we're not going to be a good team."

Then I realized you probably have to hear him. and the way he talks He doesn't use the word "If" much.

IF "We play short shifts and go after the other team, we're going to be a good team. IF We don't, we're not going to be a good team."

Grammar aside, he wants and needs the whole team to pitch in come playoff time. As a result, I think we will see different guys sitting out at different times. You will have to earn your spot on the roster whether you are getting 5, 10 or 20 minutes a game. So for all of us wondering Hudler, Sammy, Cleary or whoever, I guess they will have to prove it.

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