Rivalry with Nashville, long-lasting?

[Earthhuman 8]

Nashville is a rival of Detroit, that has been established. But it's hard to hate a terrible team. Don't get me wrong, Nashville is very talented and hard working. But Kariya ans Sullivan were aquired. Timonen was aquired. Forsberg was aquired. Vishnesky and Vokoun... aquired. Arnott, Dumont, Nichol, and Zidlicky were also ALL aquired. Nobody drafted beyond the first round makes the team. The point is, the team is an awful drafter. Not to mention, they traded away their future for a guy who could be injured pretty early into the playoffs (As a matter of fact, it would be a safe bet).

Proof, their best prospect: (From HockeysFuture

Will Nashville be competitive a few years down the road, when their stars begin to age? Many of them (Forsberg, Kariya, Sullivan, Zidlicky, Arnott, Timonen, and more) are years above 30.

I don't think so.

[Earthhuman 8]

Ok, let me start the arguement:

"But Sam, if they have aquired stars, what would stop them from continuing to do so?"

Well, lets look at New York, circa 1995-2004. As they continue to trade away their picks and prospects for aging vets, the vets will go on to retirement while there will be very little yound talent to clog the holes. Nashville will have to go for whatever they can get, which will not be a Stanley Cup roster. Give it time.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Earthhuman

[ChelisChick 174]

Yeah, that David Legwand guy didn't work out too well.

Sorry. Just had to do it. Legwand was drafted in the '98 entry draft in the first round. Shea Weber was drafted in "02.

Erat, Hamhuis, Hartnell: all drafted by Nashville.

If you would like to see more, here you go.

http://nashvillepredators.com/team/

[betterREDthandead 58]

Oh, so much wrong with this whole theory. Where to begin?

First off, nobody drafted past the first round makes the team? Do Shea Weber (2nd) and Jordin Tootoo (4th) ring a bell? How about Martin Erat (7th)?

Quite a number of their picks have made the NHL. Just because they're no longer on Nashville's roster doesn't mean they were poor draft picks. Karlis Skrastins was a Pred selection, as was Adam Hall (and neither were first rounders), that play on other teams now. Same for Scottie Upshall.

Not to mention that a lot of teams would kill to have the success rate in the first round that the Preds get. Legwand, Hamhuis, Hartnell, Suter, Radulov.....all Preds top picks that are now playing in Nashville. The Wings should be so lucky.

Sure, lots of their players were acquired in trades. Where do you think Nashville got the chips to bargain with in the first place?

Nashville, an awful drafter? HA! Dead wrong. We're not so lucky.

Ok, let me start the arguement:

"But Sam, if they have aquired stars, what would stop them from continuing to do so?"

Well, lets look at New York, circa 1995-2004. As they continue to trade away their picks and prospects for aging vets, the vets will go on to retirement while there will be very little yound talent to clog the holes. Nashville will have to go for whatever they can get, which will not be a Stanley Cup roster. Give it time.

Uh, people have been saying that about the Wings for YEARS. The Wings were supposed to fall apart right about oh say now because of it.

[theman19 47]

i'm curious what the hell this has to do with carolina,....

eric staal, andrew ladd, and cam ward all first round picks just in case you decided to make that argument as well.

[Earthhuman 8]

1) First off, nobody drafted past the first round makes the team? Do Shea Weber (2nd) and Jordin Tootoo (4th) ring a bell? How about Martin Erat (7th)?

2) Karlis Skrastins was a Pred selection, as was Adam Hall (and neither were first rounders), that play on other teams now. Same for Scottie Upshall.

3) Not to mention that a lot of teams would kill to have the success rate in the first round that the Preds get. Legwand, Hamhuis, Hartnell, Suter, Radulov.....all Preds top picks that are now playing in Nashville. The Wings should be so lucky.

4) Sure, lots of their players were acquired in trades. Where do you think Nashville got the chips to bargain with in the first place?

1) 3 players does not make great late-round drafting, especially when one of them cannot play the game of hockey.

2) Skrastins, Hall and Upshall; I had no idea so many quality players were tearing up the NHL.

3) I would say that many teams have comparable or better records in the first round. And their picks caould not have been as high as Nashville's, who was a very bad team for awhile. The Wings WOULD be so lucky if they could grab a first rounder.

4) I don't know who they got these players for, but I think if you looked, the results would only support my ideas. I would say they didn't get them for much. Some were late bloomers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, people have been saying that about the Wings for YEARS. The Wings were supposed to fall apart right about oh say now because of it.

But the Wings could simply replace older players with MORE bought talent. Now they can't. Maltby will be gone next season. Bootland is taking his place. Lang may be gone. Ellis will take his place. We are not too deep. We /are/ paying for it.

i'm curious what the hell this has to do with carolina,....

They traded yound talent for another shot at the cup, which they didn't get. One run at the cup at the expense of next years season does not pan out. That's all I was implying.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The Hurricanes are still a fairly decent team, despite not making the playoffs. I feel with the right moves, a healthy Cory Stillman and Frantisek Kaberle, and a couple free agent signings, the Hurricanes will be back to playoff contenders next year. This year, they really weren't that far out of it. One of the problems was the inconsistancies of Eric Staal and Cam Ward. That'll be corrected with age. Again, with the right moves I expect them to be making another run at it next year.

Edit: I'd like to add something here. Carolina really did not give up many meaningful prospects last year when they traded for Recchi and Weight. In the Mark Recchi trade, they gave up Niklas Nordgren, who is no longer in the NHL, and Krys Kolanos (who we all know pretty well what he's like, what with the way he just walked off of Grand Rapids this year). For Doug Weight, they gave up Mike Zigomanis, who is a fairly decent centerman, Jesse Boulerice, who is a slug, and Erkki Rajmaki, who is also no longer in the NHL. So really, they did not give up a whole lot at all.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Earthhuman 8]

The Hurricanes are still a fairly decent team, despite not making the playoffs. I feel with the right moves, a healthy Cory Stillman and Frantisek Kaberle, and a couple free agent signings, the Hurricanes will be back to playoff contenders next year. This year, they really weren't that far out of it. One of the problems was the inconsistancies of Eric Staal and Cam Ward. That'll be corrected with age. Again, with the right moves I expect them to be making another run at it next year.

Cory Stillman was a big part of it, so was Staal, but they were offset by Brind'amour's better numbers and the often-dominant play of Whitney. Goaltending was about what it was lst year. Kaberle was injured, but defense was deep with the addition of that LA guy.

They may have just been worn out. Next year will be better.

Edit: I'd like to add something here. Carolina really did not give up many meaningful prospects last year when they traded for Recchi and Weight. In the Mark Recchi trade, they gave up Niklas Nordgren, who is no longer in the NHL, and Krys Kolanos (who we all know pretty well what he's like, what with the way he just walked off of Grand Rapids this year). For Doug Weight, they gave up Mike Zigomanis, who is a fairly decent centerman, Jesse Boulerice, who is a slug, and Erkki Rajmaki, who is also no longer in the NHL. So really, they did not give up a whole lot at all.

Ok, so Carolina was a bad comparison.

[Earthhuman 8]

we just need to stop giving them free handouts like teenage friggin girls, let's see how long it lasts then

Am I just slow, or... huh?

[Guest Agalloch]

Nashville is not a rival.

In order for a rivalry to take place, both teams must win. You can't have a rivalry that's one-sided.

Nashville has yet to win against Detroit. Not in the playoffs, and rarely in the regular season.

[Earthhuman 8]

Nashville is not a rival.

In order for a rivalry to take place, both teams must win. You can't have a rivalry that's one-sided.

Nashville has yet to win against Detroit. Not in the playoffs, and rarely in the regular season.

A rivalry is official when the teams hate each other, and the fans hate each other, and there are guys like Tootoo and Chelios.

The fact that you cannot acknowledge that they are a great team rests my case.

Edit: LOVE your avatar. Emailed it to everyone I know.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Earthhuman

[Guest Agalloch]

Once again, it CANNOT be a rivalry if one of the teams never wins. I also fail to see how the two teams hate each other, as we would never knows this. It's not like fights break out every game. Do you personally speak to the Wings and ask if they hate Nashville? They may hate Tootoo, but we don't know if they hate the Wings.

I acknowledge that they're a good team, but have they beaten the Wings yet, in any significant sort of form? They haven't even won a division yet. When they win something, ANYTHING, then MAYBE, a rivalry will start.

[Chase 0]

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alexander_radulov

[Earthhuman 8]

Once again, it CANNOT be a rivalry if one of the teams never wins. I also fail to see how the two teams hate each other, as we would never knows this. It's not like fights break out every game. Do you personally speak to the Wings and ask if they hate Nashville? They may hate Tootoo, but we don't know if they hate the Wings.

I acknowledge that they're a good team, but have they beaten the Wings yet, in any significant sort of form? They haven't even won a division yet. When they win something, ANYTHING, then MAYBE, a rivalry will start.

Rivalries are tangible to you and emotional to me.

Agree to disagree.

[Guest Agalloch]

Rivalries are tangible to you and emotional to me.

Agree to disagree.

That's what I was going to say as well.

[Earthhuman 8]

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alexander_radulov

Look up the word prospect. He is a graduated player on the roster.

Let me put my arguement another way:

Can Nashville hold onto an elite team over the next 3-4 years?

[Chase 0]

Look up the word prospect. He is a graduated player on the roster.

Let me put my arguement another way:

Can Nashville hold onto an elite team over the next 3-4 years?

Wasnt your argument that Nashville cant draft for s***? They drafted this guy, did they not?

[betterREDthandead 58]

Am I just slow, or... huh?

I think he means revenue sharing. Though it could just as easily mean we lend them the family car and cell phone for the evening. Either way it's clear as mud.

Once again, it CANNOT be a rivalry if one of the teams never wins.

Ask the Yankees and Red Sox if there was a rivalry before 2004. Hell, ask ESPN.

Regarding Nashville's ability to draft, they have 8 homegrown players on their roster, starting in 1998 when they made their first entry draft picks. (Hamhuis, Suter, Weber, Erat, Hartnell, Legwand, Radulov, Tootoo.) The Wings also have 8 from the same time period. (Liv, Kronwall, Quincey, Filppula, Datsyuk, Franzen, Hudler, Zetterberg.) And that's if you count Liv and Quincey, who right now are nothing more than emergency injury replacements. Nashville's got plenty of those lurking beneath the surface too.

I don't think the Preds have drafted better than the Wings - the Wings have gotten those players with less to work with. But to call them poor drafters is misguided.

[Earthhuman 8]

Wasnt your argument that Nashville cant draft for s***? They drafted this guy, did they not?

Oh I see what you mean. I thought you were pointing out that he was at the top of their list, despite being a sucessful NHLer.

BTW, they passed up Mezaros, Wolski, and Zajac to get him. We'll see whether it's worth it.

It surprises me that they drafted a right winger when they are obviously short on centers (like Wolski). <-- Another testament to their crappy drafting.

I also fail to see how the two teams hate each other, as we would never knows this. It's not like fights break out every game. Do you personally speak to the Wings and ask if they hate Nashville?

"Before Detroit games, the meetings are always longer." - Nashville's Paul Kariya

Rivalry?

[Chase 0]

Oh I see what you mean. I thought you were pointing out that he was at the top of their list, despite being a sucessful NHLer.

BTW, they passed up Mezaros, Wolski, and Zajac to get him. We'll see whether it's worth it.

It surprises me that they drafted a right winger when they are obviously short on centers (like Wolski). <-- Another testament to their crappy drafting.

That may be true, but Radulov could work out nicely for them. Only time will tell.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

BTW, they passed up Mezaros, Wolski, and Zajac to get him. We'll see whether it's worth it.

A long time ago, the Detroit Red Wings drafted defensemen Maxim Kutznetsov ahead of Marc Savard, Michael Handzus, and Miika Kirpursoff.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Again, a huge part of rivalries are emotional. We all don't like the Preds, hence the rivalry.

[FireCaptain 563]

words, words, words

Don't forget, they were an expansion club just 9 years ago. Hard to have a deep farm system if you've only been at it for a few years.

[Legionnaire11 0]

you people are still responding to this guy? thats almost as bad as his argument. and besides, I'M supposed to be defending the preds here, I know it must be killing everyone

BTW...

Bertuzzi, Calder, Chelios, Cleary, Draper, Hasek, Lang, Langfeld, Lebda, Lilja, Maltby, Markov, Samuelsson, Schneider... not drafted by the wings, and Osgood was a re-aquisition.

Wings must be horrible at drafting right? I wonder if they can stay competitive for the next 3-4 seasons

and another thing to end your entire argument.

If you say that we're such a horrible drafting team, then why would it be a bad thing to trade our picks for established players? we're obviously not going to do anything good with those picks anyway.

two third rounders for Sullivan? freaking STEAL. two injury prone prospects and two picks for Forsberg? Not bad. Mike Dunham for Rem Murray and Marek Zidlicky? Poile should go to prison for that robbery.

Vokoun and Timonen came through the expansion draft. no picks/prospects lost in that one. Got scott walker in the expansion draft, traded him for Vasicek, traded him for Belanger and traded him for Vishnevsky. no picks/prospects lost in that one. signed Dumont, Kariya, Arnott, Nichol, Fiddler and Smithson as free agents. no picks/prospects lost there.

So the only time that we traded picks or prospects was for two players. TWO.

what was your argument again?

[ProudestMonkey 0]

To say that Nashville is bad at drafting players is simply ignorant.

Karlis Skrastins (9th)

Denis Arkhipov (3rd)

David Legwand (1st)

Martin Erat (7th)

Andrew Hutchinson (2nd)

Adam Hall (2nd)

Scott Hartnell (1st)

Jordin Tootoo (4th)

Dan Hamhuis (1st)

Scottie Upshall (1st)

Shea Weaber (2nd)

Kevin Klein (2nd)

Ryan Suter (1st)

Pekka Rinne (8th)

Alexander Radulov (1st)

Cody Franson (3rd)

Teemu Laakso (3rd)

Ryan Parent (1st)

David Poile has made some remarkable draft picks. And the reason we were able to ACQUIRE some great players was because we had an abundance of great prospects that we DRAFTED.

1/4 of our current players were DRAFTED by the Predators. Where the heck did you come up with this garbage theory?