An Enforcer

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

If only Homer , Bert ,Franzen,Lilja and Markov added fighting to their game . we would have one of the toughest team's in the NHL .

[skacore 2]

Chris Simon is 57 years old and quit fighting. Fedoruk's orbital bone is held together by paperclips. They're both pretty much done with enforcing.

Chris Simon is old, that's why we sign him for 1-2 years, he can still take on just about anyone in the league and althought he may not fight for fan entertainment, if someone is taking liberties on a teammate he is going to be there. I support a true enforcer who sticks up for his team mates, I don't care about the meaningless fights to see who's stronger than who... 3-4 fights a year would work for me aslong as they are for the right cause (Torres hit, Barker's boarding, Mitchell's hit, Pronger's headshot, etc.) and worst case scenerio if he doesn't come to the aid of his teammates, we have a 4th line player making under a million who can put up 20 points easy

Todd Fedoruk is not done enforcing I believe he is going to be back on the top of his game soon, after getting the metal plate put into his face his attitude did not change at all, he had a slugfest with Simon and took a huge KO from Orr, but his face was fine, he was just knocked out.. Fedoruk is still young, can easily take a regular shift and put up 15-20 points (the pace he was going anyways), he is a physical pressure on the ice and a hard forechecker, and has one of the best attitudes in the game

[Guest jaytan]

Here's my take on the whole "enforcer" issue.

Sure, Pronger cheapshotted Homer. But Homer bounced right back after getting stitches and got an assist in that game right? After scoring twice before the hit.

That is how the Wings "enforce". I like it.....

I don't like how the Wings "enforce".... What did Holmstrom do after he was bashed up? Nothing. That hit erased him and might have erased our chances with it. And it wasn't like it was a sudden or isolated incident. The Ducks were taking shots at the Wings from day one, whenever they got frustrated, and with the way Detroit was embarassing them in front of their home fans - and the way they just lay down and took it whenever Anaheim took a cheap shot at them, well, something big was bound to happen eventually.

[skacore 2]

If only Homer , Bert ,Franzen,Lilja and Markov added fighting to their game . we would have one of the toughest team's in the NHL .

I wouldn't want Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, and Markov to start fighting more than necessary, but like I said before it would be nice if Franzen/Lilja worked on it a bit, this IS hockey afterall...

Edited May 29, 2007 by skacore

[Donaldjr2448 43]

This enforcer debate has been beaten to death at least a million times in here.

The Red Wings aren't a team that just dukes it out with other teams. They don't go out of their way to get in 1-on-1 scrums. In recent years, that has never been what this team was about, and it certainly wasn't the case this year.

1 or 2 enforcers is not going to change what this team is about. I'm so sick and tired for the argument of getting an enforcer type on this team that will play no more than 3-4 minutes a game. There was a guy on the Wings who did that this season. His name was Brad Norton. Look how he panned out.

And if you think this team is still "soft", take a look at who the Wings beat this playoffs, and take a look at who they acquired this season.

They acquired a guy with a fair amount of snarl in Danny Markov. Not the biggest guy, mind you, but certainly not afraid of playing the physical game. They got Todd Bertuzzi, who even despite not being 100% played a fairly physical game this playoffs. Andres Lilja finally rose up out of nowhere and consistently threw his weight around this postseason. They got Kyle Calder, who even though did pan out well, was brought on to play a gritty type game. None of these guys are enforcers, but they are far from the "soft" label.

And the Wings were supposed to get manhandled by Calgary, because Calgary was too "physical". Then the Wings were supposed to get manhandled by San Jose in the post season, because San Jose was too "physical". Guess what happened?

The whole theory that the Wings are still a soft team is a bunch of bulls**t. And they have done it without any real enforcers either.

SPOT ON BROTHER!!!! I loved how some of the Wings stepped up in the playoffs. However will they be able to do that over 82 meaningless games, we'll have to wait and see. We were extremly soft during the regular season, and it seemed like the only player that would stick up for anyone was Chelios. I hope that Bert, Calder and Lilja will fit the mold as our "enforcers", but to go out and sign a goon in uncalled for. There is no need for a Probert or Kocur anymore, the game is too fast and those type of players cannot keep up with the play.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I wouldn't want Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, and Markov to start fighting more than necessary, but like I said before it would be nice if Franzen/Lilja worked on it a bit, this IS hockey afterall...

I wouldn't want any of those guy's sitting in the penalty box either. but for guy's their size they probably should be able to look after Zetts , Dats and the rest of the small skilled guy's a little more.

Edited May 29, 2007 by glasgowcelticwing

[Kp-Wings 3]

Franzen should definitly fight more for his size. This is always something I've wondered, is that why he doesn't fight more. Must be a Swedish thing.

[Bad Vlad Forever 1]

I don't know that they NEED it, but I'd still like to see someone in that role for them.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I don't know that they NEED it, but I'd still like to see someone in that role for them.

It would be good to add an Enforcer. but It wouldn't bother me as much as it used too if they didn't. The Wings are a lot tougher than they used to be.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Asham is perfect. he can play and kick ass , the best of both worlds

[Guest ZDH]

Asham is perfect. he can play and kick ass , the best of both worlds

I think we need another Joey Kocur on the team. A player who can fight and keep the other team honest and not take cheapshots at our skilled guys like Z and Dats. A player who can take a regular shift on the 4th line and not hold it back. Who is that guy? Asham has many fans on here. I've only seen him play a few times and he did not impress me very much. If he can skate, is willing to take on the heavyweights and most importantly stick up for his teammates then sign him now. If he tries to pull a Tie Domi act and want to become "Mr Skilled Player I Don't Fight Anymore" then we have no need for the guy.

There wil always be a need for an enforcer on the team in hockey. Hockey is a tough game and you need to balance things out. When your team has no one sitting on that bench it makes your opponents feel like they are all 10 feet tall and can bully you around.

Yes, the Wings stood up for themselves quite nicely in the playoffs this time around. I didn't think they had it in them but they proved me wrong.

You still need an enforcer in today's game though. But he has to be able to PLAY. If he can't skate decently then he is a waste of space. I want a guy who is big and can hit and can fight who can take a regular shift. I want Probie or Kocur!

[Bannedforlife 403]

I've got a great idea! Why don't we just sign Hartnell, Pronger, Tootoo and all the other cheap shot artists in the league and then we won't need an enforcer! Then we can be the ones doing all the cheapshotting!

/sarcasm

Enforcers are lame

[Guest ZDH]

I've got a great idea! Why don't we just sign Hartnell, Pronger, Tootoo and all the other cheap shot artists in the league and then we won't need an enforcer! Then we can be the ones doing all the cheapshotting!

/sarcasm

Enforcers are lame

Posts like these are lame and not worth responding to. If you don't know what the role of an enforcer is and what they can do for your hockey team, then there is no point in explaining it. You can only beat a dead horse so many times before your arms tire out. Yeah enforcers are lame. That's it. Feel better?

[Bannedforlife 403]

Posts like these are lame and not worth responding to. If you don't know what the role of an enforcer is and what they can do for your hockey team, then there is no point in explaining it. You can only beat a dead horse so many times before your arms tire out. Yeah enforcers are lame. That's it. Feel better?

Actually, I feel incredible today! Thanks for asking

[ben_usmc 253]

I was just thinking about this because everyone was talking about Probert. My roomate is a Av's fan but I have turned him into at least liking the wings, anyway all season when watching these cheapshots and talking about needing an enforcer I'd say god I wish we had Probert back and this and then, all my roomate would do is just say shut up basically saying you don't have him get over it. But about 3 days ago I ended up showing him some Probert clips on youtube; after that he was like WOW i love Probert I understand now why you would want that crazy sob still playing, and then I told him about Kocur and those 2 were on our team, he wasn't aware of the old school wings when all they could do was kick ass, sorry for the story but just reminded me of that, oh and I think Hartnell or Lappeire spelling is wrong is what we need.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I’m going to try to soften my stance up against enforcement some as I was strongly opinionated on one end of the extreme, perhaps a bit too much in my earlier posts. I apologize for this being a bit lengthy and probably re-hashing some of my earlier points.

I understand the need that an enforcer brings to a team and to the NHL and I don’t think that the role is completely and utterly useless, and I am not 100% completely against bringing an enforcer to the table for the Red Wings. If the Red Wings can get one and he can provide enough of an impact for the team, great, both the team and the fans alike win.

I just think that the role of an enforcer is extremely overblown, especially in here, even in spite of the Wings being “soft†prior to the trade deadline and normally being labeled that in the recent past.

I attended a Wings game live in December this season when they hosted St. Louis. I cannot recall the exact incident but I remember one of the Wings got hit hard in some fashion, and the puck dropped after the player was attended to, and nothing happened. Believe me, it would have been nice for one of the Wings players to stick up for the fallen teammate, and I was wishing for it to happen as well that game, but after the game ended I wasn’t getting my panties worked up in a bunch about the situation. I highly doubt that an enforcer would not have prevented that incident from happening at that moment in time.

In my honest opinion, enforcers are just a minute part of the game to me that doesn’t have as much effect in the result of a game in terms of a win/loss as some in here believe it does. Is enforcement significant? Yes, to a certain and small extent with momentum swings and such, but it is greatly overhyped.

This is just one example, but remember when the Avalanche obtained Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne and had ridiculous amounts of offensive talent with Sakic, Hedjuk, and Forsberg, etc. that one recent season? Enforcer Peter Worrell was included in that mix. He barely did squat for the Avalanche that season. I know he was injured some that season, but still, with all due respect to Worrell for playing hockey professional, you see where I am going with my argument…

While the Wings don’t have an enforcer still, the Wings are soft no more, they got tougher and grittier after the trade deadline, and they weren’t afraid to throw their body around after the trade deadline and in the postseason. They could equally dish out as many hits as the opposition, as many postseason games attested.

Would obtaining an enforcer be nice, warm, and fuzzy? Sure, I wouldn’t mind it. But nobody will ever accurately convince me that just one enforcer out of 18 skaters (19 including a goalie) will truly help next season in the grand scheme of things.

Is obtaining one extremely critical and should it be a top priority? Not in this fan’s opinion.

[Guest ZDH]

It is not the fact that having an enforcer will eliminate all cheapshots to the Red Wings. It's important to have one because it eliminates more possibilities of it happening. Anyone who has ever played the game at a competitive level knows exactly what I am talking about. I played the game up until Junior C but was not good enough to go any higher. I still play the game but only in a rec league where there is no hitting.

Anyway when I played, we all knew who the other team's tough guys were. We knew if we hit one of their star players that we would have to answer for it. Likewise with our team. If one of my star players was hit in a bad way or picked on, I was one of the guys who would find the guy who did it and pummel his ass. That's hockey.

Now in today's game the enforcer has to be able to play. You can't be a total slug out there and waste a roster spot.

When your team has an intimidating enforcer, it gives all kinds of room for the star players. Brett Hull was on NBC and echoed the same things. He gave credit to Tony Twist for making sure he was taken care of. Probie and Kocur took care of Yzerman. Even Gerard Gallant.

Now back then there was no Instigator Rule, or as I call it Wimp Rule. Now any little punk can run around hitting guys from behind and hiding behind their visors. Look at Tucker in Toronto. The guy cheap shots every time he is on the ice and hides behind the refs and yaps and thinks he is tough. Same for Avery. They will only fight guys they know they can beat. Not legit heavyweights.

The guy the Wings need is one like Chris Neil in Ottawa or Laraque in Pitt. Problem is these guys cost 1-2 mil on your Cap and only play around 5 minutes a game. So the cynic will say it aint worth it.

Wrong. It IS worth it. Just to have that guy on the bench will deter cheapshots on your best players from happening. It will not eliminate it entirely. It never has. But it will deter it for sure. I'd like to see a season where Dats and Z don't get mauled each time they step onto the ice for once. I'd like to see the Wings players feel an inch taller when they step onto the ice because they know they have a tough guy who can keep the other team honest.

You always protect your players. That is hockey. You don't protect them then you pay the price.

Obtaining a legit enforcer who can take a regular shift on the 4th line, like a Neil SHOULD be a top priority. I would glady deal Hudler for Neil. No way in hell Ottawa would. And why is that? Because they know how important he is to their team. He gives space out there to guys like Spezza, Heatly and Alfredsson and he doesn't even play with them. But he is THERE. That is my whole point.

I am a big Holland fan. I think he is the best GM in the league and we are very lucky to have him steering the Red Wings ship. But he is not perfect. The one flaw I have with Kenny boy is that he does not see the value in enforcers. Bowman did. Why do you think he got Kocur out of retirement in a beer league? Is it any coincidence the Wings won the Cup and established their team identity when they got Kocur back? Or when they began giving McCarty and Lapointe more ice time? No. They knew they needed the toughness to balance with the skill.

Kocur was very valuable to those 2 Cup winning teams in 97 and 98. A successful team can ALWAYS use players like Kocur or a Probie in the line-up. THat will never change.

Edited May 30, 2007 by ZDH

[Zeke 5]

It is not the fact that having an enforcer will eliminate all cheapshots to the Red Wings. It's important to have one because it eliminates more possibilities of it happening. Anyone who has ever played the game at a competitive level knows exactly what I am talking about. I played the game up until Junior C but was not good enough to go any higher. I still play the game but only in a rec league where there is no hitting.

Anyway when I played, we all knew who the other team's tough guys were. We knew if we hit one of their star players that we would have to answer for it. Likewise with our team. If one of my star players was hit in a bad way or picked on, I was one of the guys who would find the guy who did it and pummel his ass. That's hockey.

Now in today's game the enforcer has to be able to play. You can't be a total slug out there and waste a roster spot.

When your team has an intimidating enforcer, it gives all kinds of room for the star players. Brett Hull was on NBC and echoed the same things. He gave credit to Tony Twist for making sure he was taken care of. Probie and Kocur took care of Yzerman. Even Gerard Gallant.

Now back then there was no Instigator Rule, or as I call it Wimp Rule. Now any little punk can run around hitting guys from behind and hiding behind their visors. Look at Tucker in Toronto. The guy cheap shots every time he is on the ice and hides behind the refs and yaps and thinks he is tough. Same for Avery. They will only fight guys they know they can beat. Not legit heavyweights.

The guy the Wings need is one like Chris Neil in Ottawa or Laraque in Pitt. Problem is these guys cost 1-2 mil on your Cap and only play around 5 minutes a game. So the cynic will say it aint worth it.

Wrong. It IS worth it. Just to have that guy on the bench will deter cheapshots on your best players from happening. It will not eliminate it entirely. It never has. But it will deter it for sure. I'd like to see a season where Dats and Z don't get mauled each time they step onto the ice for once. I'd like to see the Wings players feel an inch taller when they step onto the ice because they know they have a tough guy who can keep the other team honest.

You always protect your players. That is hockey. You don't protect them then you pay the price.

Obtaining a legit enforcer who can take a regular shift on the 4th line, like a Neil SHOULD be a top priority. I would glady deal Hudler for Neil. No way in hell Ottawa would. And why is that? Because they know how important he is to their team. He gives space out there to guys like Spezza, Heatly and Alfredsson and he doesn't even play with them. But he is THERE. That is my whole point.

I am a big Holland fan. I think he is the best GM in the league and we are very lucky to have him steering the Red Wings ship. But he is not perfect. The one flaw I have with Kenny boy is that he does not see the value in enforcers. Bowman did. Why do you think he got Kocur out of retirement in a beer league? Is it any coincidence the Wings won the Cup and established their team identity when they got Kocur back? Or when they began giving McCarty and Lapointe more ice time? No. They knew they needed the toughness to balance with the skill.

Kocur was very valuable to those 2 Cup winning teams in 97 and 98. A successful team can ALWAYS use players like Kocur or a Probie in the line-up. THat will never change.

Someone that can skate,hit,fight and score goals? We had him and traded him away.

Sean Avery.

I know he has a big mouth and says some stupid things,but I'm sure our veterans can keep him in line.

I'd like to see him back with the wings.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I attended a Wings game live in December this season when they hosted St. Louis. I cannot recall the exact incident but I remember one of the Wings got hit hard in some fashion, and the puck dropped after the player was attended to, and nothing happened. Believe me, it would have been nice for one of the Wings players to stick up for the fallen teammate, and I was wishing for it to happen as well that game, but after the game ended I wasn’t getting my panties worked up in a bunch about the situation. I highly doubt that an enforcer would not have prevented that incident from happening at that moment in time.

Drake's cheap shot hit on Lebda?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Drake's cheap shot hit on Lebda?

Perhaps so.

*shurgs in uncertainty*

[joshy207 156]

Avery can play some and can fight some, yes, but he's a little guy. He won't be able to handle the bigger, tougher fighters in the league. But Avery's mouth and attitude are why he's been with 3 teams in 4 years... the players here couldn't handle him, he got himself kicked off LA's team (but they let him back on)... and he's always drawing fire from somewhere because of what he does and says.

ZDH, I couldn't have said it better... and SWF, you make some valid points too. The guy would have to be able to play.

[vangvace 12]

Stars, true superstars, like those that hang from the rafters in arenas across the league had one of two things... either they defending themselves or they had an enforcer on the bench nearby to keep the game honest. Think back through the years and all the superstars to play the game... how many would play as long or be as effective without that silent sentinel in the background. Would Yzerman have lasted as long if he didn't have the Bruise Brothers? What about the Great One? Even now Pittsburgh recognize this and have protection for the "second coming." It would be to our benefit to do the same for our own young superstars lest we lose them...

Enforcers and fighters have the ability that these skill players do not have though. Nobody cheers the sweet pass or the amazing deke... at least not much. Outside of the later rounds of the playoffs the cheers die off quickly when a goal is scored. But from the moment a "tough guy" hits the ice the air gets a little more electric and should a fight happen to take place... fans don't cheer for a minute, they scream for five. The don't keep their seats, they stand on their toes. They don't watch with their eyes, they feel with their soul. That's what it's about... the passion, the love of that game that combines the best off all other sports out there, yet still adds it's own magic, no essence, to it.

No an enforcer is not and should not be priority number one, but by god if it isn't in the top 5. :nonono:

[Draperfan 104]

There's a difference between an enforcer and a cheap shot artist.

Exactly,we dont need another cheap shot artist(Bertuzzi)one is enough

[HenrikRules40 14]

Exactly,we dont need another cheap shot artist(Bertuzzi)one is enough

Like clock work.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

Like clock work.

I suppose it gives us something controversial to talk about with no Red Wings hockey to talk about.