Kozzie a Wing again?

[DreamsofHope 2]

LOL buddy, you say I'm angry? You're the one that doesn't even respond to all the hockey facts that I post, you instead try to insult me by telling me I should hang myself. See a psychiatrist. You need it.

I'm not saying this just because he used to play for the Red Wings. I'm also not denying that he's still a good player. I'm saying that his point production are blown up because of who he played with, and he's simply not what the Wings need. He hasn't scored in the playoffs in years, and is undersized. Two things the Wings are trying to rid themselves of.

Okay if that is the argument you are going to use, then I am willing to listen, but please don't revert to the 'living in the past.' Some people are, we all know this, but for the sake of all of our sanity, let that part go. I'm interested in your opinion otherwise...

Ummm I may get flammed for this but I think we NEED to move forward instead of back.

See my previous post.

[Guest Agalloch]

YAWN. Can someone please buy this guy a clue? Have you read ANY of this thread? Do I need to copy and paste everything I've said? Nah not for you. Go back and read it. Why am I arguing with an idiot?

Pal, nearly every post that you make says nothing but "Wow, you're an idiot, your opinion is not valid. I'm always correct. Go read my other posts that contain numerous facts as to why Kozlov would be great."

I've yet to see any of those facts. Then I, of course, provide facts as to why the Wings don't need him. You, however, then reply with more idiotic posts that don't even pertain to any of the facts or reasons that I stated. You simply try to insult me some more (don't see where you're going here, you're not "hurting me feelings" on the Internet.), and ignore all facts and hockey discussion.

[DreamsofHope 2]

Pal, nearly every post that you make says nothing but "Wow, you're an idiot, your opinion is not valid. I'm always correct. Go read my other posts that contain numerous facts as to why Kozlov would be great."

I've yet to see any of those facts. Then I, of course, provide facts as to why the Wings don't need him. You, however, then reply with more idiotic posts that don't even pertain to any of the facts or reasons that I stated. You simply try to insult me some more (don't see where you're going here, you're not "hurting me feelings" on the Internet.), and ignore all facts and hockey discussion.

Both of you just let it go.... sheesh. This silly little fight is getting in the way of hockey talk. All of us will probably never meet, so who cares what the two of you think of eachother personally. Talk hockey.

[Offsides 21]

I think Shanahan would be a detriment to the team. His last couple playoff years with the Wings showed that. He's a floater now, and is only valuable on the PP.

And Kozlov is washed up. Maybe you missed the part about him playing with Hossa and Kovalchuk, Flip? Come on, Lang could score eighty points playing a lot with those two.

Also, anyone that's saying Kozlov will help in the playoffs: How exactly? He's tiny, and hasn't scored since, what, four years ago or something like that? He didn't even record a point this year in the thrashing that Atlanta took. Fedorov hasn't even been in the playoffs for a couple years, so I'm not going to say anything about that, but I don't see how he'd help at all either. He's past his prime, and if people want to use the "HE'S JUST NOT MOTIVATED!" argument, then he'd just become Robert Lang 2.0.

I enjoy your wordplay but not your sentiment.

Is 'Floater' just the word we now use to describe everyone we don't really think plays good? I don't get it. EVERYONE in the NHL is a floater now. Shanahan (again I don't want him back, and he doesnt' want to come back) has continued to play well since leaving the Wings, and is our last 50 goals scorer...so I'm not seeing your point on him.

Kozlov is not washed up. He might be a 'Floater' whatever that means...but he's still a very skilled player who can do a lot to help out the team, if we got him for a cheap price.

Fedorov should not be compared to Robert Lang at all (and I love Lang). Are you kidding me?!? Fedorov does not suck, now. He's playing a defensive role in Columbus and doing a good job. Just because you aren't watching and paying any attention to Columbus doesn't mean that Fedorov isn't doing anything. The one thing that would be BAD about Fedorov returning would be people questioning his motivation...so annoying. He gets the job done, plain and simple, and has never had trouble putting up the numbers in the post season, despite always being critisized for not showing up. Give him a good winger and watch him go.

Also, we need someone for the point on our PP.

You don't have to want either player on the team though, that's your opinion.

[Guest Agalloch]

Both of you just let it go.... sheesh. This silly little fight is getting in the way of hockey talk. All of us will probably never meet, so who cares what the two of you think of eachother personally. Talk hockey.

I've been talking hockey this whole time. I keep stating facts and continue to talk about hockey, but he refuses to acknowledge any post I make, and instead continues to insult me.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

May I ask what the hell is so wrong with bringing back former players? If they are good, and can still help the team, well then there ya go! I never understood the whole 'former players should never be brought back' crap. Or that we are supposedly attached to them and some of us fans, and Ken Holland can't let go. That's ridiculous. Slava is worth being looked at to bring back here. He can still score around 30 goals a year. He can make a heck of a difference out there and is a great playmaker. Him being a former Wing should have nothing to do with the decision on whether to bring him back or not. Helping the team fill a void on the second line is all that should matter, and Kozzie would more than do that. Same goes for Feds.

Edited May 30, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[DreamsofHope 2]

I've been talking hockey this whole time. I keep stating facts and continue to talk about hockey, but he refuses to acknowledge any post I make, and instead continues to insult me.

So refuse to acknowledge him at all..... seems pretty simple just to ignore him.

May I ask what the hell is so wrong with bringing back former players? If they are good, and can still help the team, then they should be brought back. I never understood the whole 'former players should never be brought back' crap. Or that we are supposedly attached to them and some of us fans, and Ken Holland can't let go. That's ridiculous. Slava is worth being looked at and thought of to bring back. He can still score around 30 goals a year. He can make a heck of a difference out there and is a great playmaker. Him being a former Wing should have nothing to do with the decision on whether to bring him back or not. Helping the team fill a void on the second line is all that should matter, and Kozzie would more than do that. Same goes for Feds.

Dude, a free agent is a free agent, regardless of what team he used to play for... even if that team was ours. Well said. Glad I'm not alone here.

[Guest Agalloch]

I enjoy your wordplay but not your sentiment.

Is 'Floater' just the word we now use to describe everyone we don't really think plays good? I don't get it. EVERYONE in the NHL is a floater now. Shanahan (again I don't want him back, and he doesnt' want to come back) has continued to play well since leaving the Wings, and is our last 50 goals scorer...so I'm not seeing your point on him.

Kozlov is not washed up. He might be a 'Floater' whatever that means...but he's still a very skilled player who can do a lot to help out the team, if we got him for a cheap price.

Fedorov should not be compared to Robert Lang at all (and I love Lang). Are you kidding me?!? Fedorov does not suck, now. He's playing a defensive role in Columbus and doing a good job. Just because you aren't watching and paying any attention to Columbus doesn't mean that Fedorov isn't doing anything. The one thing that would be BAD about Fedorov returning would be people questioning his motivation...so annoying. He gets the job done, plain and simple, and has never had trouble putting up the numbers in the post season, despite always being critisized for not showing up. Give him a good winger and watch him go.

Also, we need someone for the point on our PP.

You don't have to want either player on the team though, that's your opinion.

I never called Kozlov a floater, I called Shanahan a floater. Shanny is too slow now, doesn't play well defensively, and is useless at even strength (as shown by how many PP goals he had this year).

I was comparing Fedorov to Lang because they both play unmotivated. You hit it right on the head. He's not playing to his potential. Even at this age, he should be better.

We don't need anyone to man the point on the PP. Schneider should be back, Lidstrom is there, Samuelsson does a decent job... I don't think that should be a primary reason as to why Fedorov should be back.

[Guest ZDH]

Pal, nearly every post that you make says nothing but "Wow, you're an idiot, your opinion is not valid. I'm always correct. Go read my other posts that contain numerous facts as to why Kozlov would be great."

I've yet to see any of those facts. Then I, of course, provide facts as to why the Wings don't need him. You, however, then reply with more idiotic posts that don't even pertain to any of the facts or reasons that I stated. You simply try to insult me some more (don't see where you're going here, you're not "hurting me feelings" on the Internet.), and ignore all facts and hockey discussion.

1. You're not my pal.

2. I do know more than you, it is quite obvious though nothing to brag about.

3. YOu do not provide facts. You give credit to Kovalchuk and Hossa and none to Kozlov.

4. You're too sensitive for hockey. Maybe you should follow figure skating.

[Guest Agalloch]

May I ask what the hell is so wrong with bringing back former players? If they are good, and can still help the team, well then there ya go! I never understood the whole 'former players should never be brought back' crap. Or that we are supposedly attached to them and some of us fans, and Ken Holland can't let go. That's ridiculous. Slava is worth being looked at and thought of to bring back. He can still score around 30 goals a year. He can make a heck of a difference out there and is a great playmaker. Him being a former Wing should have nothing to do with the decision on whether to bring him back or not. Helping the team fill a void on the second line is all that should matter, and Kozzie would more than do that. Same goes for Feds.

I already answered that a couple posts ago. Slava isn't the player the Wings need imo, and I explained that too.

The whole "bringing players back" thing is directed at the people that want guys like Shanahan back.

1. You're not my pal.

2. I do know more than you, it is quite obvious though nothing to brag about.

3. YOu do not provide facts. You give credit to Kovalchuk and Hossa and none to Kozlov.

4. You're too sensitive for hockey. Maybe you should follow figure skating.

3. Even though I said Kozlov was a good player a couple posts ago?! Once again, you ignore EVERY SINGLE FACT that I provide.

I'm gonna go ahead and take the advice of Dream and put you on ignore. It's useless arguing with you.

[Offsides 21]

I never called Kozlov a floater, I called Shanahan a floater. Shanny is too slow now, doesn't play well defensively, and is useless at even strength (as shown by how many PP goals he had this year).

I was comparing Fedorov to Lang because they both play unmotivated. You hit it right on the head. He's not playing to his potential. Even at this age, he should be better.

We don't need anyone to man the point on the PP. Schneider should be back, Lidstrom is there, Samuelsson does a decent job... I don't think that should be a primary reason as to why Fedorov should be back.

You didn't but others ahead of you did. I'm just going to call everyone a floater now. ha ha.

Eh, about Fedorov and motivation...stupid argument...I hate listening to it...it can't be proved. He played most of last year injured so I think that's why he wasn't up to his 'potential'. I don't know what nail you are talking about...he's still an excellent two way forward. Anyway, all I'm asking is a chance in the playoffs at the deadline...that's not asking that much. He'd definitely help the Wings. If anything please use the argument that he's been injured recently. Please use a valid argument...I will help you out by giving you that one.

He'd be like 500% better than Samuelsson...are you kidding...ha ha ha. And he can fill in on any position...what players can do that? Nostalgia may or may not win Cups...I don't really care. Fedorov needs to come here for many reasons, and that fact that he was a great Red Wing is one of them. The fact that he could fill a niche we need is another reason. There are more reasons.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Offsides

[Guest ZDH]

I already answered that a couple posts ago. Slava isn't the player the Wings need imo, and I explained that too.

The whole "bringing players back" thing is directed at the people that want guys like Shanahan back.

So Kozlov gets 80 points but would be useless to the Wings? According to you Mr WannaBeGM it's because he played with Kovalchuk and Hossa, correct? So in Detroit was it because he played with Sergei and Igor? You provide no facts. Instead you provide a biased opinion that the Wings should not look to their past.

Fedorov is not worth getting either. Ok so he's what 38 now? Should the Red Wings have said at the '99 deadline, oh Chelios is 37 we should not get him. He's too old. Chelios helped us win a Cup in 2002. Name me a centre who will be available at the trade deadline next season who will be better than Fedorov? If you can forsee who might be available, what would the Wings have to give up in a trade?

Then ask yourself what it would cost for the Wings to get Fedorov? I can see more than just the Wings having interest in Fedorov at next year's Trade Deadline.

I don't see any of these so called facts you keep talking about. Where are they? You have facts which can tell me Kozlov and Fedorov are washed up? I'd like to see them.

I already answered that a couple posts ago. Slava isn't the player the Wings need imo, and I explained that too.

The whole "bringing players back" thing is directed at the people that want guys like Shanahan back.

3. Even though I said Kozlov was a good player a couple posts ago?! Once again, you ignore EVERY SINGLE FACT that I provide.

I'm gonna go ahead and take the advice of Dream and put you on ignore. It's useless arguing with you.

Again you provide no facts. An opinion is not a fact. You don't seem to understand this. Saying Kozlov is old and washed up and only got his 80 points because he played with them is not a fact. It's an assumption. I could say that Kozlov helped Hossa and Kovalchuk have the great seasons they had. But it is not a fact. It is an opinion.

I'd love for you to ignore me but lets face it. You can't. How many times do I have to beat you in this argument? Is that a fact? LOL Of course it isn't. It might be the truth but it isn't a fact.

[Guest Agalloch]

You didn't but others ahead of you did. I'm just going to call everyone a floater now. ha ha.

Eh, about Fedorov and motivation...stupid argument...I hate listening to it...it can't be proved. He played most of last year injured so I think that's why he wasn't up to his 'potential'. I don't know what nail you are talking about...he's still an excellent two way forward. Anyway, all I'm asking is a chance in the playoffs at the deadline...that's not asking that much. He'd definitely help the Wings. If anything please use the argument that he's been injured recently. Please use a valid argument...I will help you out by giving you that one.

He'd be like 500% better than Samuelsson...are you kidding...ha ha ha. And he can fill in on any position...what players can do that? Nostalgia may or may not win Cups...I don't really care. Fedorov needs to come here for many reasons, and that fact that he was a great Red Wing is one of them. The fact that he could fill a niche we need is another reason. There are more reasons.

You have a valid argument, and I'm sure he would help the Wings a bit, but I simply think that there will be others out there that would be more beneficial to the Wings. Fedorov, though some may not want to believe it, is not the player he once used to be. He's still good, but I just don't see what he'd bring to the Wings that would fill a big need. Scoring wingers that are physical are a much bigger priority to me.

But, to each his/her own I guess.

[Guest Shoreline]

Slava was integral in the 97/98 cup runs, plus he's proven to be consistent with Atlanta (albeit with some great talent on the line -- which was no different than before). He's a sleeper kind of guy who doesn't gather much attention from opposing teams, and that's why he's perfect. He's a roleplayer who produces. If there's one person to replace Lang, there he is. I'd gladly welcome Slava back with open arms.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Shoreline

[DreamsofHope 2]

Slava was integral in the 97/98 cup runs, plus he's proven to be consistent with Atlanta (albeit with some great talent on the line -- which was no different than before). He's a sleeper kind of guy who doesn't gather much attention from opposing teams, and that's why he's perfect. He's a roleplayer who produces. If there's one person to replace Lang, there he is. I'd gladly welcome Slava back with open arms.

Thank you so much for saying this.

[Offsides 21]

Well, neither might ever be Wings. But Holland is always listening for my input

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

This is my first post on this topic and I've not read any other post's on the subject either .

IMO , I would have Kozlov back in a heartbeat. The guy is still a great player and would provide the Wings with a much needed different attacking option.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Slava was integral in the 97/98 cup runs, plus he's proven to be consistent with Atlanta (albeit with some great talent on the line -- which was no different than before). He's a sleeper kind of guy who doesn't gather much attention from opposing teams, and that's why he's perfect. He's a roleplayer who produces. If there's one person to replace Lang, there he is. I'd gladly welcome Slava back with open arms.

Exactly.

[Guest Crymson]

With regards to the NHL.com article:

- it's hard to put any stock in a writer that notes that Kronwall was hurt in the first round against Calgary, and lists Kozlov as a center when in fact he is a natural LW.

that being said, he's a legitimate top 6 forward that has a history of clutch in the post-season. that being said, he's an inconsistent scorer.

edit to add:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer

Kozlov - Filpulla - Bertuzzi (healthy)

Franzen - Cleary - Grigorenko

Maltby - Draper - Samueslon

Kopecky / Hudler

looks pretty OK> Everyone's playing their natural position for a change (except Henrik)

Cleary is a natural LW.

Before you say it, Franzen is indeed listed as a C, but plays as anything but.

I have mixed feelings on Federov but I do believed that Ozzie woud be a good fit for 2 reasons he knows the system , and was a great playoff performer , now for Sergi he would be good on the point on the power play in stead of Sammy, has great playoff numbers good size but he left on his own from Detroit and Ozzie was traded for Dom. I would realy have to think about Sergi

Kozlov knew the system the Wings played six years ago, under Bowman. Does Babcock's system look anything alike? No. People must understand that the team has changed in the last six years.

As Kozlov has played only four playoff games since leaving the Red Wings--all of them this year, and all of them without a point scored--I daresay he cannot be called a veritable playoff performer at this point.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Cleary is a natural LW.

Before you say it, Franzen is indeed listed as a C, but plays as anything but.

Dano can also play Center if he was put on a scoring line. Doubt he'd want to play Center on a checking line though.

Kozlov knew the system the Wings played six years ago, under Bowman. Does Babcock's system look anything alike? No. People must understand that the team has changed in the last six years.

As Kozlov has played only four playoff games since leaving the Red Wings--all of them this year, and all of them without a point scored--I daresay he cannot be called a veritable playoff performer at this point.

Spot on again Crymson. He isnt this clutch playoff performer anymore.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[Guest Crymson]

I remember Kozzie being let go FOR DOMINIK HASEK.

And I remember him then being good on Atlanta. I also remember him being very good in the playoffs, here.

Kozlov was TRADED for Dominik Hasek, not let go.

Kozlov was very good in the playoffs here... six years ago. He sucked in the playoffs in Atlanta this year--didn't you see? Before you bring up the fact that the entire team played horribly, consider that Kozlov managed to score in those conditions in Detroit during his tenure here. Does that suggest to you that, perhaps, he is no longer the late-20s scorer we used to have?

I would celebrate the return of both!

I'll agree and disagree. It absolutely isnt' fair to make your agruement grouping all of those players together. They aren't all the same in where they are at, and you of all people should know this. Yzerman isn't coming back, I would say no to McCarty, and Lapointe. But players like Feds and Koz could be very helpful to this team. Were you one of those guys saying this same thing to bringing back Hasek? Kozzy could have the same effect. He could come back and prove why he is who he is.... and I for one, would be okay with that.

This is the point I believe Allagoch was trying to make: you'd be happy with "bringing him back," despite the fact that he's not what we need. No, you want him back because he played here during the glory days of the late 90s. If it were any other like player, one who is not a big-sized scorer, I doubt you'd be advocating that we pick the person in question up. Nostalgia is the deciding factor for many here.

I'm not saying I want Shanny back...because I don't. But let's not kid ourselves on that one. He wouldn't be a detriment to the team.

We're not talking about bringing back just any players...we're talking about bringing back Fedorov and Kozlov (Fedorov OR Kozlov, even), and they would help us in the playoffs, no doubt.

Are you looking at the fact that we could find others who--despite not being former Wings--could help us MORE in the playoffs than could Fedorov or Kozlov?

By the way, your constant talk of "bringing back" these players does your argument no good.

Why do we want all these older players? How about we try and get guys who are 27-31? Like Smyth, or Hartnell? Or Drury or Gomez even? Go big or go home? We can't always play TURN BACK THE CLOCK FOLKS!

We have no need for a goon like Hartnell. Smyth? Why should we waste our high-profile UFA slot on Holmstrom #2?

I like Fedorov. There's a difference between liking a player and wanting his washed-up ass on the team. And you say we need a second line center, hey, guess what? We can get someone else! Someone better! Wow!

EXACTLY! While we could have fun bringing back players who haven't been on the team for 4+ years, we could just as easily pick up better players.

I won't even respond to the middle of your post, since it's a bunch of useless garbage that I think is trying to insult me, though I'm unsure.

You're almost certainly correct. I replied in what I do believe was the first topic he ever started, and he fast segued from argument to telling me my posts were making him hockey-dumb.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We have no need for a goon like Hartnell. Smyth? Why should we waste our high-profile UFA slot on Holmstrom #2?

Because if we had Smyth and Holmstrom and a healthy Schnieder , Our powerplay would be deadly.

Smyth brings an added large body and some grit. Two 30 goal scorers that can score from the goal line , or anywhere esle for that matter , And they'd be on different lines. He's a leader in the locker room , and shows up playoff time. He'd be a huge plus for our hockey team , Even though he does everything Holmstrom does , having 2 of anything is never a bad thing.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[Offsides 21]

Nostalgia is the deciding factor for many here.

Are you looking at the fact that we could find others who--despite not being former Wings--could help us MORE in the playoffs than could Fedorov or Kozlov?

By the way, your constant talk of "bringing back" these players does your argument no good.

I will happily admit that the #1 reason I want to see Sergei is that he was a Wing before and he should retire a Red Wing. He's a great player, but that just gives him the edge. It doesn't weaken my argument...it's a fact..he was a Wing...we would be bringing him back...but we didn't let him go because he sucked or something, so who cares.

If we get someone who can help us more than Fedorov I will welcome that player and give them a fair shot. There is still the matter that is up in the air of whether we can get Fedorov at all, so partly this is all speculation. I'm looking to get Fedorov around the deadline, so it's future speculation.

There's something special about the Wings system though...where we get players back. It's a nice thing...not a bad thing...especially if the players can still be useful to us. There's more to hockey than just winning a Cup from a business standpoint, and having recognizable players that the fans like and create a buzz is something the Wings have done very well. Having Fedorov on the team makes good business sense. No one we could acquire at the deadline would create more buzz at the deadline than Fedorov...the prodigal son...returning home.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Thank God some people in here are realist for once. Crymson, you win the LGW Conn Smyth in this topic, at least you should.

I'm tired of all the nostalgia bulls*** that goes on here. Kozlov I really don't have a problem with returning, but Fedorov I do. Watching him play with Columbus is just disgusting. He phones it in out there more than Alexei Yashin.

Now, before you give me the speech of "HE PLAYS ON A BAD TEAM!!!!!!!!!!111 FEDS RULZ!!!!!!!!!11" and all this other s***, consider this. I don't see some of the other guys on Columbus play as lazy and show no effort like Fedorov does. And they all make less money! The man is just playing out his years, that's it. He shows no desire to win at all, and I highly doubt he would if he came back here either. He's just as guilty as Lang.

In closing I leave you this: Nostalgia does not win Cups, and neither does Sergei Fedorov. It's only conincedence that we haven't won a Cup since he left. Besides that, we didn't win every season he was here either. We both won and lost with Fedorov, and we can still win without him. I don't want him back.

[Dabura 12,207]

I don't like this idea; I'd rather fill Lang's spot with a big, young body.