Holland: Hard desicions must be made.

[Majsheppard 203]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../706250310/1128

There it is, expect only two of the four big free agents on the Wings to return.

(Markov, Bertuzzi, Schneider, and Hasek)

Easy question, which two do you pick?

Personally it is an easy choice for me, Schneider and go after Smyth or someone else.

Markov would be decently easy to replace.

Bertuzzi is a jerk, and didn't perform to my high standards. Plus it would cost us another draft pick.

Hasek played great but didn't perform to the point where he deserves a massive pay raise when he has a questionable groin. Plus we have a couple of decent goaltenders already.

Schneider can only be replaced by a much more expensive Souray. I think that Schneider is a great fit and a better person so I wouldn't want to risk making that switch. Plus that would leave it all to the youngsters on offense, when we have more depth and youth in our D core.

If we are making the push for a cup, I think Detroit cannot gamble on Hasek at 2 million or more. They should try to use the young Defensemen to replace Markov and get Schneider back to keep our Defense stable. It was the best in terms of shots allowed which should help out Osgood and Howard/Liv/someone else. The team needs to be smart and finesse fix the Offense and defense. Be agressive with the top six, and be conservative elsewhere.

I would like to see the lines fall out like this.

Zetter/Pavel/Homer

Smyth or Blake/Filp/Franzen

Malts/Drapes/Cleary

Jiri/ Langfield or Kopecky/Samuelson

Lids/Kron

Schneids/Lebda

Cheli/Quincy

Meech or someone else.

Osgood and someone else.

I also know that this will become a pro/anti Hasek thread. I would like to say that I don't want to see him back for anything more then 1.5. Cheli signs for minimum, Hasek should do the same if he wants to win. If he signs for that then I will pray his groin holds out and root for him. Until then, I say go to hell.

[Guest DetroitIan]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../706250310/1128

There it is, expect only two of the four big free agents on the Wings to return.

(Markov, Bertuzzi, Schneider, and Hasek)

Wow...That is a depressing thought. And its hard for me to truly lean a certain way. But I think Schneider and Bertuzzi are must re-signs. I mean I don't wanna lose Hasek or anything. But I just cannot fold on wanting these two guys to stay in the winged wheel. I will really be keeping my fingers crossed that Kenny feels the same way.

[Guest Agalloch]

If we can only get two of those four, I want Markov and Hasek. However, I think we'll end up with Schneider and Hasek.

Not going to be a very busy offseason this year.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Markov would be decently easy to replace.

If you are talking about late-season and playoff Lilja, then yes, Markov is fairly easy to replace by a current Wing if Lilja doesn't go in the tank again. But if not him, then who would replace Markov's snarl, besides Lilja and Chelios? Surely not Quincey and Meech? Who is there to be had in free agency that fits Markov's mold?

Bertuzzi is a jerk, and didn't perform to my high standards. Plus it would cost us another draft pick.

Why is Bertuzzi a jerk? That's pretty extreme I think. Maybe lower the standards a bit as well, I have no doubt that coming off an injured back is difficult. I blew my ACL/MCL out and had surgery a little over three years ago on it, and I am still afraid to run fast or sprint on it, and I'm definitely not a professional athlete. He's not to be given a free pass, but cut him some slack a little bit.

Hasek played great but didn't perform to the point where he deserves a massive pay raise when he has a questionable groin. Plus we have a couple of decent goaltenders already.

Where else are the Wings going to currently find a caliber top-5 - top-7 goalie in the NHL today at the kind of salary Hasek is going to make this upcoming season, even with a raise? I understand Hasek isn't the goalie he once was in Buffalo, but he is still damned good at 40+ years old as these past two years in Ottawa and Detroit showed. And even with Hasek's "raise", he's going to be a steal in salary.

Howard doesn't look to be ready yet.

While the Wings could certainly do a lot, lot worse than starting Chris Osgood, I again ask who are they going to find that top caliber goalie like Hasek, and at such a low salary?

The Wings are golden with their goalie situation right now, a starter who still knows how to win, and win often, and a veteran backup who can probably still start for a lot of teams in the league, and who has and can still win big games when needed.

Schneider can only be replaced by a much more expensive Souray. I think that Schneider is a great fit and a better person so I wouldn't want to risk making that switch. Plus that would leave it all to the youngsters on offense, when we have more depth and youth in our D core.

Agree, but I'm getting the vibe in here that it's an all-or-nothing off-season in terms of success or failure on whether Schneider gets signed or not. I'd love to see him back, but all is not lost if he's gone.

The team needs to be smart and finesse fix the Offense and defense. Be agressive with the top six, and be conservative elsewhere.

Make no mistake, the Wings still aren't the most "physcial" team out there, but this playoff run showed they can dish out just as much, and will not quit and back away. They don't need much tweaking.

I also know that this will become a pro/anti Hasek thread. I would like to say that I don't want to see him back for anything more then 1.5. Cheli signs for minimum, Hasek should do the same if he wants to win. If he signs for that then I will pray his groin holds out and root for him. Until then, I say go to hell.

Go to hell? That's kind of dramatic, don't you think? Chelios has already signed for a little above the minimum, and Hasek's not signing for the minimum, but I'd find it hard to believe that he would even come close to holding the Wings hostage with salary demands.

Edited June 26, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Wow...That is a depressing thought. And its hard for me to truly lean a certain way. But I think Schneider and Bertuzzi are must re-signs. I mean I don't wanna lose Hasek or anything. But I just cannot fold on wanting these two guys to stay in the winged wheel. I will really be keeping my fingers crossed that Kenny feels the same way.

hasek has to stay , we cant have ozzie starting , i like matty but not at the salary some team will offer ........hasek is a must , i wouldnt mind markov cause i dont think he will get too much , id like bertuzzi to stay but i got a bad feeling hes gonna go to calgary, maybe if we trade scraps like sammy and lilja we can get in smyth if were lucky lol ( dont count on it)

I really hope midway through next year if quincey is playing good , holland offers him a lebda type deal , nice 4 yr deal at like 750k per , would really help us down the line

[Packer487 3]

Hasek is the only must-sign out of the four. He is the one that makes the difference between this team being a Cup contender and being a borderline playoff team. In all actuality, the guy is worth $5 or 6 million--which obviously we won't pay him because of the injury risk--but it seems silly to draw the line at $2 million if he wants more than that. Who are you going to put in net if he leaves?

I'd like to think that after his unselfishness in the past (returning the money when he was injured and whatnot) he would recognize that by taking more money he would be limiting the ability of the team to contend for the Cup. But let's be realistic....we're getting a HUGE discount from what goalies of his caliber make. JSG just signed for what? $6 million a season? Dom played for less than a million base salary last year and he was one of the top goalies in the league. He deserves a raise if he wants one. I don't expect it to be huge, but he wouldn't be out of line even if he's asking for $3 or 4 million. I'd hope that he'll play for less than that, but you can't tell me he wouldn't be worth every penny.

I'd be tempted to let Bertuzzi go unless he's playing for peanuts. No one knows how he'll do over a full season (at least Dom made it all the way through with only one minor injury). It doesn't really interest me to have him tie up $3 million of our cap PLUS give up an extra second round selection....

The big hit to our offseason came when Kronwall got hurt again and was pretty ineffective when he was in there. If he was what he should be for the money we're paying him (How did he finagle that contract anyway?) then we wouldn't have to discuss things like "paying Mathieu Schneider $5.25 million a year". As it is, I'm inclined to say that we need Schneids back and we just hope that one of the young d-men (maybe by the end of the year it's Kindl?) can step in in Markov's role. Luckily Quincey looks like he's going to be solid back there....

Does anyone have Dmitri Bykov's phone number?

-Tim

[T-Ruff 47]

Of those four I want Hasek and Bertuzzi.... Though Schneider is key as well, if it wasn't for the Flyers' ridiculous contract to Timonen I don't think we're worrying about this....

[Majsheppard 203]

Go to hell? Wow, that's kind of dramatic, don't you think?

Hey no one wanted to give Hasek a shot. We did.

It worked for him and now he wants to bleed us dry. Tell me how that isn't anti-team. Tell me that isn't an ego trip.

He should realize that if he demands more money, he is only going to take away his defense. It was the strongest D in the league, and made his job alot easier. I think a year older and with crappier defense he might not be as good.

Or his groin gives out and we are stuck with Osgood anyways. I say try to make the team better elsewhere.

Oh and Bertuzzi is a jerk. He crippled a guy with a sucker punch. Thus a jerk, I don't hate him. I just think that there could be better choices out there.

[Production Line 1]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../706250310/1128

There it is, expect only two of the four big free agents on the Wings to return.

(Markov, Bertuzzi, Schneider, and Hasek)

Easy question, which two do you pick?

Personally it is an easy choice for me, Schneider and go after Smyth or someone else.

Markov would be decently easy to replace.

Bertuzzi is a jerk, and didn't perform to my high standards. Plus it would cost us another draft pick.

Hasek played great but didn't perform to the point where he deserves a massive pay raise when he has a questionable groin. Plus we have a couple of decent goaltenders already.

Schneider can only be replaced by a much more expensive Souray. I think that Schneider is a great fit and a better person so I wouldn't want to risk making that switch. Plus that would leave it all to the youngsters on offense, when we have more depth and youth in our D core.

I also know that this will become a pro/anti Hasek thread. I would like to say that I don't want to see him back for anything more then 1.5. Cheli signs for minimum, Hasek should do the same if he wants to win. If he signs for that then I will pray his groin holds out and root for him. Until then, I say go to hell.

Hasek, Is a done deal. He is one of the 2. He won't rape the team. He knows he still owes them.

If we go for Shneids, unless he takes the big discount we will NEVER get Smyth or any other good F.A.

Markov is decent, reasonably priced and dependable.

Bert, give us the discount to stay, and we could go for others...

I feel the Timonen deal kicked us in the nutz...I think that made matty want more...

Again this is all my opinion...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Hey no one wanted to give Hasek a shot. We did.

It worked for him and now he wants to bleed us dry. Tell me how that isn't anti-team. Tell me that isn't an ego trip.

He should realize that if he demands more money, he is only going to take away his defense. It was the strongest D in the league, and made his job alot easier. I think a year older and with crappier defense he might not be as good.

Or his groin gives out and we are stuck with Osgood anyways. I say try to make the team better elsewhere.

How does he want to "bleed the team dry"? By asking to make $1M a year, $1.5M a year, when he probably could realistically be making $3M - $4M a year? We should be thankful he's probably going to be playing for the Wings at a discount (again).

Oh and Bertuzzi is a jerk. He crippled a guy with a sucker punch. Thus a jerk, I don't hate him. I just think that there could be better choices out there.

Good grief, we're still going to be bringing up "the incident" again? It's done and over with. He made a mistake in the heat of the moment. He's said his apologies, I'm pretty sure he meant them, what else do you want the man to do? You can't hold it against him forever. Now let's drop "the incident" as it's not worth talking about anymore.

[gcom007 1,465]

I wouldn't pay Hasek more than 2 mil either. I'd gamble on Osgood and a young guy and put more stock in players. Once Osgood got past injuries he was playing quite well again. Historically speaking, he's not Hasek great but he is infinitely better than most view him as around here. Besides Manny, our problem has never been goaltending. Goalies can't score. Year after year, our problems have a hell of a lot more to do with scoring than anything. So with a pretty strong defense that tends to make any goalie look good, why pay a lot for anyone when it's going to really compromise your chances up front. Not a gamble I'd take. It's a gamble either way really, but again, I'd put my money up front before I throw too much at Hasek or anyone. Keeping Schneider should be of #1 importance. He's the only one I really see as being a must-sign. Too bad he's likely to be the hardest to sign, though he did surprise me when he resigned for two years. I bet Kenny is kicking himself for not locking him down until retirement now...

[Mighty Wings 0]

This is something I never understood. We have less than 5 days to go, but still don't know the official cap number for next year is going to be. What is kenny (or any other GM) supposed to do when you don't know the cap number for next yr?

I know he says he's willing to spend only $10 million, but I guarantee that the amount he's willing to spend after he finds out the new cap number, will be higher. As long as the salary demands remain unchanged after the fact, he will be able to re-sign more than 2 guys.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mighty Wings

[Packer487 3]

Can I just ask the people who say "let's let Hasek go and improve the team elsewhere" exactly how they think that's going to happen?

It's not like by letting Hasek go we'd free up 6 or 7 million bucks that we could use on an impact player. It'd basically be that you let Hasek go and re-sign an additional one of your own free agents instead. Also keep in mind that if Hasek leaves, you still have to spend money on a replacement for him, whether it's $650,000 for Howard or the money to sign someone else....

Is the team better off with Hasek and Quincey playing a bigger role or with Osgood as your starter but with Markov as part of the defense corps? It's a no brainer. Markov was pretty good for the most part in the playoffs, but I didn't think he was overly great in the regular season.

Also remember that our $3 million man will be back on the blueline.

-Tim

[Majsheppard 203]

This is something I never understood. We have less than 5 days to go, but still don't know the official cap number for next year is going to be. What is kenny (or any other GM) supposed to do when you don't know the cap number for next yr?

I know he says he's willing to spend only $10 million, but I guarantee that the amount he's willing to spend after he finds out the new cap number, will be higher. As long as the salary demands remain unchanged after the fact, he will be able to re-sign more than 2 guys.

I wondered that too. Though I know that the actual cap number is somewhat not important on new signees.

Agents are smart, and whatever extra space will figured in when they make their demands. Thats why caps are not a solve all. They just cause regulated inflation instead of free market inflation. The benifits are real, but not enough to solve our problems. I think that also supports my position.

People like Hasek and Schneider, should emulate people like Yzerman. They should get to the point where they realize they are not the focal point of the team, and the best choice is at a certain age to stop grubbing for money. They should look for the right fit and then look to help the team. Their goal should be to retire on top. Hasek should come back for the same cost, he is already getting incentives. Schneider should do the same.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Hasek at 1.75

Schnieder at 3.5

Bertuzzi at 2.5

Why arent those reasonable salaries? If the cap does go up to 49 or even 52 million, We'd still have alot of Cap Space

[Majsheppard 203]

Hasek at 1.75

Schnieder at 3.5

Bertuzzi at 2.5

Why arent those reasonable salaries? If the cap does go up to 49 or even 52 million, We'd still have alot of Cap Space

That would be great!

Unfortunately those aren't the projected salaries.

Hasek is looking for 3 right now.

Schneider is looking for over 4.

and Bert thinks he shouldn't have to take a big pay cut, so he will look for over 3.5 I hear 4.

That is more then we have.

I'd rather give Smyth 6 and Schneider 4 (apprx).

Or Blake 4 and schneider 4. and Give Hasek 1.5 take it or leave it.

[Gordie Howe hat trick 110]

Hasek is nessessary to keep hands down. But I would also like to see Big Bert in the winged wheel once again. Markov was good but not all that great, and Matt had broken wrist. Seeing as how I broke mine about a year ago you can't tell me that his wrist will ever be the same. It would be less of a gamble on Bert to preform, and Hasek is just solid.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I don't get it.

if Detroit has anywhere near 12M in cap space then that should be enough to sign Hasek (4M), Marlov(4M), and Bertuzzi(4M) <- and these are inflated salaries IMO.

So how does 12M only get two players?

Again, confused.

edit: unless Holland is making these statements as some sort of negotiating tactic. Then, good for him.........

Edited June 26, 2007 by rick zombo

[Production Line 1]

We still don't know what the cap is...And Kenny would like to add new blood as well as old...so you could use all the math you want to make it work, but come on...At least we have become younger...

[Packer487 3]

That would be great!

Unfortunately those aren't the projected salaries.

Hasek is looking for 3 right now.

Schneider is looking for over 4.

and Bert thinks he shouldn't have to take a big pay cut, so he will look for over 3.5 I hear 4.

That is more then we have.

I'd rather give Smyth 6 and Schneider 4 (apprx).

Or Blake 4 and schneider 4. and Give Hasek 1.5 take it or leave it.

Was that reported somewhere that Dom is seeking $3 million?

Frankly, Schneider should be seeking more than $4 million after what Philly paid out last week.

You'd really rather go with Smyth 6 and Schneider 4 over say: Kozlov 3, Hasek 3, Schneider 4? (That's ignoring that Schneider probably makes more than that and in your scenario you still need a goalie)

Even if Hasek does want 3, you'd really be willing to downgrade our goaltending significantly in order to free up $1.5 million in cap room (Since you'd offer 1.5 million)? I just don't see that as making any sense whatsoever....

By the way, I'm really getting a kick out of it that the cap could go up to as high as $52 million and the season before the lockout, only 9 teams had payrolls above that anyway. And after the 25% rollback, just TWO teams would've had payrolls above $52 million. Good thing we lost a season eh?

-Tim

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Hasek will be back, so therefore one out of Bertuzzi, Markov and Schneider will return. Holland said we have roughly $10 million to spend, so I can’t figure out how that will eventuate to only 2 players returning. You would assume Hasek will sign for about $2 milion, and Markov about $3, so that leaves $5 million for one of Bertuzzi/Schneider.

Two deals I wish we didn’t make were Kronwall and Maltby.

[Guest DetroitIan]

hasek has to stay , we cant have ozzie starting

Oh I absolutely agree. I was just thinking maybe it was possible to sign Bert, Schneids and maybe get a cheaper goaltender then Hasek. And one thats better than Osgood. If that exists out there that is.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

The long-term Kronwall contract is def a gamble; Holland must see alot of upside with the kid.

As for Maltby; well I questioned that re-signing myself. Yeah he's great defensively, is an agitator, & is a pk specialist, but IMHO we have a few guys that could fill that role, & could've used that $800,000 plus change towards someone else...Oh well.

Agreed, and not to mention we re-signed him for 3 years!

[Guest Agalloch]

I'm pretty pissed that Hasek wants 2.5 plus incentives. He's worth it, but he's definitely screwing the team over. His career might've been over before last season if it weren't for the Wings, and now he's taking away money we could use towards putting a better team together.

[Packer487 3]

I'm pretty pissed that Hasek wants 2.5 plus incentives. He's worth it, but he's definitely screwing the team over. His career might've been over before last season if it weren't for the Wings, and now he's taking away money we could use towards putting a better team together.

And he'd still be making 50% or less of what his actual value based on performance is.

It'd be nice if he'd take less in order to let us field a better team, but you could say the same for Datsyuk and his enormous deal, Kronwall robbing this team blind with his contract extension, etc.

Hasek's entitled to get his, and he's still giving Detroit a huge bargain....Even $2.5 million would probably put him in the lowest 25% of starting goalies who aren't on rookie contracts.

-Tim