University of Michigan - The upset - The future

[Packer487 3]

Here's another fun stat:

ND has now lost 5 straight games by 20+ points (and 16 since 2000).

Michigan has lost 6 games by 20+ points since 1970.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Wow. That says it all. Anyone thinking Weis is doing a superior job to Willingham, must have their Irish blinders on. Comparing the two at Notre Dame, it's clear that Ty Willingham >>> Charilie Weis.

Think as you want. If Weis is worse than Willingham, shouldn't you be happy anyways?

Come back in two years and we'll see if Willingham is a better coach than Weis.

I believe I just explained all of this anyways. Since you have no argument, like always, as to why Willingham is exactly better than Weis, then I really could care less what you think.

Edited September 18, 2007 by GoWings1905

[Matt 1,049]

I think the whole idea now is for Michigan fans to find a way to defend their loss to a Division II school.

Oh, bulls***. Not this one -- there's no way to defend it. Don't blindly lump all Wolverine fans into one group. I was genuinely curious, and there's not a doubt in my mind that ND would've been routed by App. State. Does that somehow make me feel better about Michigans loss to them? Ha!

The transitive property doesn't really work in sports. Because Appalachian State beat Michigan, and Michigan beat Notre Dame, then we assume Appalachian State would beat Notre Dame as well?

I think we can safely assume Detroit Country Day would beat Notre Dame at this point.

As far as Clausen goes, give the kid a chance. He's made two starts in two stadiums of 110,000 people.

Nope, sorry. I don't care for people that make a circus out of their signing day by flying into a school and riding in a Hummer limo.

Mallett showed up prissy-boy Clausen during the HS All-Star game and I don't expect anything less during their collegiate careers.

[eva unit zero 271]

I agree completely. I'm just as upset as any Notre Dame fan about this seaon so far. However, I disagree with you that Weis is doing a horrible job, and that Willingham was a better coach at Notre Dame. Following Notre Dame as closely as I do, let me just state a couple reasons why Weis has and will be a bigger success than Willingham.

First, based on records alone, Weis is almost certain to have a better record through three seasons than Willingham did. Even with this year looking very bleak, Notre Dame should manage four to five wins, with their weak schedule late. That would put Weis at either 23 or 24 wins through three seasons, as opposed to Willingham's 21. Not significant maybe, but also take into consideration that Weis went to two BCS Bowls, while Willingham had one great year (2002) and two subpar years following that. Weis also has won more games (19) in his first two seasons than any other coach in Irish history.

And all of the key players on Weis' good teams who have since graduated were recruited by and spent their first year or two under?

Second, I really hate to use this as an indicator, but look at the opponents Weis has lost to so far. The only really questionable loss to an inferior opponent was Michigan State in 2005. Besides that, the losses have come against USC twice, Michigan twice, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia Tech, and Penn State. While the margin of defeat in those losses has been typically pretty wide, those are all quality football programs, that were Top 25 teams when they beat Notre Dame. The talent is just so much better at those schools right now, which brings me to my final argument, and the most important factor.

Lastly, the recruiting classes of Willingham and Weis have been night and day. Willingham's numbers have left the program in shambles. The junior and senior classes at Notre Dame right now are sparse in numbers and talent. That has forced Weis to rebuild the program using younger players to make up for Willingham's poor recruiting management.

The program has more Weis recuirts playing regularly now than Willingham recruits. Given that this is the first year such a statement holds true, doesn't that mean Weis is the one with the recruiting issue?

Weis has produced two top-ten classes so far, and is very likely to make that three with the strong start on the 2008 class. I realize Willingham was responsible for Quinn, Samardjiza, Walker, Fasano, Carlson, and McKnight, but he also left the program deprived of depth and talent

Yeah, aside from quite a few guys with the talent to be All-Americans over the past couple years, Willingham's recruits haven't made an impact for a school he hasn't been recruiting for in FOUR YEARS.

and now Weis is suffering the fallout. Weis has recruited extremely well, and that will be evident in 2008, and moreso in 2009 when Weis has gotten the recruiting fully back on-track and is playing with his guys.

Weis is playing with his guys now. Only three offensive starters, plus the third string quarterback and fourth string tailback are seniors. Weis is playing mostly underclassmen on offense. Yes, he has seven seniors on his defense, but the main problem for Notre Dame has been the lack of any sort of offense. Which is doubly troubling for Weis, as he's supposed to be some sort of offensive genius.

[BlakChamber 8]

I believe I just explained all of this anyways. Since you have no argument, like always, as to why Willingham is exactly better than Weis, then I really could care less what you think.

Your explanation really doesn't hold water. Recruiting class rankings under Ty and Jabba have been almost identical, and as Eva pointed out, Weis is playing with his kids now.

Furthermore, your explanation that "Weis has only lost to good teams" doesn't fly either. If that makes a good choice, than John L. Smith is at least a decent coach, he lost to Michigan and Ohio State plenty of times. The real question should be, what games did ND under Weis win that they shouldn't have? As far as I can tell, it maybe be UM in 05 (using Ty's players and Michigan had a down year) and Penn State last year. Hell, even JLS beat some teams he probably shouldn't have.

ND better hope that Weis lives up to his billing as an offensive genius and someone who can recruit kids since he'll turn them into NFL players. Because ND is stuck with him for a long time.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Oh, bulls***. Not this one -- there's no way to defend it. Don't blindly lump all Wolverine fans into one group. I was genuinely curious, and there's not a doubt in my mind that ND would've been routed by App. State. Does that somehow make me feel better about Michigans loss to them? Ha!

I think we can safely assume Detroit Country Day would beat Notre Dame at this point.

Nope, sorry. I don't care for people that make a circus out of their signing day by flying into a school and riding in a Hummer limo.

Mallett showed up prissy-boy Clausen during the HS All-Star game and I don't expect anything less during their collegiate careers.

Right on! Golden Boy also guarenteed 4 National Champinships, and 3 Heisman trophies (maybe it was even 4). I don't feel sorry for a cocky cali boy getting his butt kicked around.

Also Fat Chuck isn't backing up his big talk the day he was hired....

"They're going to have to learn about us, OK? Let them try to stop a pro-style offense, which has multiple personnel groups and multiple formations. Let's see how they are going to do. They've had their advantage because I've come into recruiting late. Well, now it's Xs and Os time. Let's see who has the advantage now."

I'm not taking a side of who's a better coach between Willianham/Weiss, but please explain why their running game is so bad. They have Sam Young, the top OL recruit 2 years ago, John Sulvian, a 4 year starter, and #3 center coming out of high school, and Dan Wegner, the No. 3 ranked C coming out of high school, and 2 other guys. Almost every school would kill to have those kind of players on thier OL. ND also has Aldgride, a former 5 star RB. How can ND's running game be so bad, and how can there be no QB protection with that kind of line up? It has to be blamed on the coaches.

[Doctor G 0]

ND's has a horrible offensive line, one of the worst I have seen at a big program. I do not care who they get at QB or RB if that marsh-mellow line doesn't get tougher nobody will do well. As far as Clausen goes he doesn't show the talent a 5-star recruit is suppose to have yet. Although he is running for his life all the time, of course that is when the ball is hiked correctly. The last 3 coaches for ND Davie, Willingham, and Weiss did not get the talent that is needed to sustain a top 10 program. Numerous of reasons for this, one is their inability to attract the top talent and ND admissions office raising the standards after Lou Holtz left the program. Does any of this excuse Weiss for having one of the worst programs in division 1-A, hell no. This program is no better than Northwestern and if those 2 played, the Wildcats might put a beaten on them. What are ND's choices? Nothing right now they are stuck with Weiss and his 10 year contract. They better hope Weiss can change things, but with the talent they have now it will take 3 to 4 years of very good to great recruiting classes.

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

Nice defensive win against a top ten team in Penn State. Maybe we will salvage the season and win the big ten, play in the Rose Bowl.

[Guest jaytan]

If I were an AP voter, I'd put Michigan in the top 25 for sure. I expected them to beat ND and even slightly thought they'd knock off Penn State. It will be really interesting to see what happens if they manage to get to the Rose Bowl.... But I don't see it happening. They'll lose at least two more. Probably to OSU and I'm hoping the Gophers offense could surprise them.