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Hank

Sopel staying as 8th defenseman?

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I have had the opportunity to see Grigenko at training camp, at the season ticket holder skate last Friday and I attended the pre-season game on Tuesday night. I was not impressed at all at training camp. I saw improvement last Friday and again on Tuesday. I'd give him a chance. I think it's going to take time, but I think he will contribute.

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What skepticism of Grigorenko stems from:

1. What does his poor conditioning say about his attitude/work ethic

2. Is his poor training camp/preseason due to being out of shape, attitude or is he simply never going to be the player he was before that car wreck?

I'd like to see him prove his worth down in GR. But does he have to clear waivers for that. That waiver stuff always confuses me.

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I'd rather see Downey get the spot and occasionally provide aspects this team is sorely lacking, then see any of these other guys (especially Ellis or Hartigan) who theoretically could score take up the position and do nothing with it all season. Scoring is not lacking on this team...

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The thing is he isn't good enough yet. He needs a vast amount of conditionig to be a top6 scorer like he is supposed to be. Therefore sign him a 2way send him to GR and call him up if need be.

Grigorenko is already signed to a two way contract that includes a clause that if he hasn't made the big club by November he can return to Russia.

Then Downey gets the 13th spot and we have a good crash and bang line.

No matter who gets the 13th forward spot, we will have a good crash and bang line. Maltby/Kopecky/Drake. I would hope that since you ref Midget AAA and all that, that you know that most teams dress 12 forwards and 6 defensemen as their 18 skaters.

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From what I've seen in preseason games Grigorenko got skills. He seems to be thinking pass first. I did not see him taking a lot of shots. I have no idea if it how he plays or just effect of moving to a different hockey environment.

Also I did not see him being out of position much. I guess his conditioning issues are in the area of stamina and not speed.

I have to say that I am biased for skill over grit. So I would take Grigs over grinders.

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Grigorenko is already signed to a two way contract that includes a clause that if he hasn't made the big club by November he can return to Russia.

No matter who gets the 13th forward spot, we will have a good crash and bang line. Maltby/Kopecky/Drake. I would hope that since you ref Midget AAA and all that, that you know that most teams dress 12 forwards and 6 defensemen as their 18 skaters.

Yes , I understand that. But i'd rather have Downey on my crah and bang ine than malts. I like malts but he certainly isn't a crash and banger like Downey. I really doubt malts is gonna stick up for someone when the get rocked or something. He is a great fit with draper on a defensive forward line.

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Yes , I understand that. But i'd rather have Downey on my crah and bang ine than malts. I like malts but he certainly isn't a crash and banger like Downey. I really doubt malts is gonna stick up for someone when the get rocked or something. He is a great fit with draper on a defensive forward line.

Ok, so we are dressing Malts bu playing him on Draper's line. And Downey is taking Malts' spot on the fourth line with, assumedly, Drake and Kopecky. So who sits? Well, if Maltby's on Draper's line, that means it's Filppula or Cleary sitting. Do you SERIOUSLY feel that Downey helps the team more than Flip or Cleary? If so, please perform a cranial-rectal extraction before further posting.

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Even if the Wings carry 8 D-Men where does that leave Quincy if Sopel and Meech are 7 and 8 on the depth chart, as Ken Daniels implies?? this guy has been fantastic defensively!!! He was super solid in the Playoffs last season.

8 D-men list

1.Lidstrom

2.Chellios

3.Kronwall

4.Rafalski

5.Lebda

6.Lilja

7.Quincy--*

8.Sopel or Meech ????

Edited by Lazerbeam

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Ok, so we are dressing Malts bu playing him on Draper's line. And Downey is taking Malts' spot on the fourth line with, assumedly, Drake and Kopecky. So who sits? Well, if Maltby's on Draper's line, that means it's Filppula or Cleary sitting. Do you SERIOUSLY feel that Downey helps the team more than Flip or Cleary? If so, please perform a cranial-rectal extraction before further posting.

well here are the lines that i think would be better suited for a combo of grit and scoring.

homer-dats-zetts

franzen-flip-sammy/hudler

cleary-draps-malts

drake-kopecky-downey

thats my take on how I would like the lines ... really doubtful to happen. i feel that if sammy slumps .. put hudler in and see how he does and dump of sammy.. give us more cap room to play at the deadline if needed.

defence

lids-sopel

rafalski-kronwall

chelios-lebda

lilja or quincey for the 7th dman

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Even if the Wings carry 8 D-Men where does that leave Quincy if Sopel and Meech are 7 and 8 on the depth chart, as Ken Daniels implies?? this guy has been fantastic defensively!!! He was super solid in the Playoffs last season.

8 D-men list

1.Lidstrom

2.Chellios

3.Kronwall

4.Rafalski

5.Lebda

6.Lilja

7.Quincy--*

8.Sopel or Meech ????

Meech can't be sent down without going through waivers and if he was then someone would pick him up for sure.

Quincey doesn't have that, so him staying in GR protects our investment. Sopel's defensive breakdowns scare me, so I'd like to see him with Lidstrom or Rafalski. Lidstrom and Rafalski together seems like overkill.

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Who should get it ahead of him? Downey? Ellis? Hartigan? None of those guys have performed any better. Grigorenko can have a disappointing camp and still be the best forward trying out.

hello? Ryno. period.

He has outplayed them all... I don't care how young or inexperienced he is, he has more upside and has put in a 100% better camp

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Quincey >>> Sopel & Meech

I know..I know. Meech can't be sent down, and I do like the guy and think he will be pretty good, but IMO Kyle is better than Brent and Derek.

Agreed, I think Quincey is the youngest most NHL ready Defenceman the Wings have right now. I think he could step in a full time role this year and do well. But since thats not likely to happen I wouldn't mind seeing him In GR because I don't want to see him sitting out all the time, that said give it to Meech, I trust him WAY more than Sopel. That guy's defense downright scares me :unsure: If Meech can get some games in this year and preform well, he could become some pretty good trade bait. I'm sure there is plenty of teams looking for a young puck moving defenceman. It's better than loosing him for nothing. With the depth the Wings have at the D position I think it's safe to say Meech is expandable.

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Scoring is not lacking on this team...

I feel that we do have a lack of scoring, outside of Z and Dats we don't have a lot of firepower. However out badass D and goalie situation makes up for that.

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Meech sucks. I see no point in even keeping him.

I don't know where he's getting this idea of Sopel as an extra... either he makes it, or he doesn't. If he does make it, then who exactly would he be sat for? Lilja? Give me a break.

If I were to guess right now, Sopel get's cut and Meech would stay as an extra defenseman. No way would they carry 8 defenseman though, and especially not have Sopel as one of the extras.

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The thing is he isn't good enough yet. He needs a vast amount of conditionig to be a top6 scorer like he is supposed to be. Therefore sign him a 2way send him to GR and call him up if need be. Then Downey gets the 13th spot and we have a good crash and bang line.

He already has a contract, so signing him has already been done. There is a clause in his contract that if he is not on the NHL roster after a short time- I think its 2 weeks after the start of the season- he can go back to Russia and incur no penalty.

I like Downey too, but I don't want to keep Downey and risk losing Grigorenko, who while not as good as originally advertised, is still far and away a better skill player than Downey will ever be or ever has been.

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Meech does sck and I cannot figure out why everyone is on his nuts. Grigs had done nothing to warrant him earning a spot on the team, send him to Grand Rapids and let him get in shape and develop there, if he wants to go back to Russia so be it. It baffles me how some players have such a following (meech, grigs, etc) and have done nothing at all to warrant it.

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For there position on the roster, I'd rather have Downey and let Grigs develop in GR. He wont get any better sitting in the press box eating Chee-tos watching the Wings. Playing top line minutes with Mcgrath in GR will help him alot.

I dont understand the Grigs love, potential this, and potential that. At the moment, we dont need Grigs to try his hat at being a grinder or sitting in the press box.

I'd like to see Sopel get signed, but theres no point keeping Soap as an 8th defenceman, and have Meech ahead of him? :lol: Sopel is much better then Meech, dont get me wrong, I like Meech, but I liked Macdonald and Booter too, and look where that got them.

I'd like to keep all our roster players, Sopel and Downey, waive Meech and have him clear, send down Grigs and win the Calder cup & Stanley cup in the same year.

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Bingo. Babs can't inject some skill into these other guys, but he can vastly improve Grigorenko's conditioning.

Think of it like you're buying a used car. You want a second car to make the transit to work easier by letting your wife take a seperate car so you go to a used car lot. In front of you you've got 3 cars from '01-'03 that are nothing special but are in good shape for their age. On the other hand you've got a '02 Lexus that needs new brakes, timing, wheels and a tune-up, but is otherwise fine. Now obviously the Lexus doesn't feel so impressive on the road in the condition it's in. But you know a great mechanic- a dude who already works for you, can do the job extremely well and has the parts you need.

What do you buy if they're all the same price? The car that's going to be awesome after your buddy fixes it or one of the instantly mediocre cars?

I guess the better quesiton is just how risk adverse are you....

Grigs = Lexus :huh:

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I'd rather see Kenny re-sign Markov than any of these other options.

Not this again... I'll break this down into two simple factors.

1. Markov's price tag is about 3.5-4 million a season. That is simpily too much money for a #3-4 defenseman. And please... don't start the classic "Look at how well he did with Lidstrom" crap. Anyone can look like a top defenseman with Lidstrom. Case and point: Lilja.

2. Markov doesn't even want to play here. He's rejected about 2-3 offers that I know of, and there could be more that Holland never said publicly.

Stop with this Markov crap already. Yeah, sure, we can afford him. But he's not worth the money, and I'd also like to see what Holland will do at the deadline with considerable cap space available now. I don't know the exact demographics for cap space because of the Rafalski signing, but not having Lang's 4 million and Markov's 3 million on the books should help.

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