Power Play vs. 5 - 5 Play

[Opie 308]

I really think this team has a decent number of guys who are going to get 15-20 goals, guys like Cleary, Flip, Huds, etc. Seeing as that is about a goal every four games and you have to think that guys will get streaky, this team will be riding the backs of Dats, Z, Lids, Ralf, until the random game where Kopecky has a goal, Cleary has two, and some how Maltby manages to fall on the puck knocking it in the net with his nose.

All kidding aside, this is the reason I think this team needs a bona fide top 6 forward. While they may be able to get sporadic scoring from guys like Cleary, Flip, Mule, Huds, Sammy, they are going to struggle to get night in and night out scoring.

Dats and Z will hit cold spots and right now we as fans are hoping it coincides with a hot streak from the aforementioned guys!

[rick zombo 3,739]

RE: Original topic.

The addition of Rafalski has done alot to improve the PP

5-on-5 the problem is secondary scoring. And maybe this is where the 2nd line offence is needed. And it might be a problem all year.

Edited October 9, 2007 by rick zombo

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Physicality is probably an area that Lidstrom lacks and it would probably make him that much better or at least more exciting ot watch, however, you gotta think that his style of play is what has kept him able to miss very few games in his career and has enabled him to continue to play at such a high level as he ages.

If he was a much more physical defensemen, injuries probably would start catching up to him by now, which would diminish his other skills and at worst, he could be retired.

So, when I think about it, I'll take his current style of play thanks, just ensure you have other bruisers on the blueline.

Couldn't agree more. Look at the other top guys who you could consider play more physically than Nick. Niedermayer, retired. Maybe not for health reasons but who knows. Pronger, a history of ailments and injuries. ????? Hmmm, who else can you really put in this category. Any of the offensive guys like McCabe, Kaberle, Souray, Visnovsky are not nearly in the class Lidstrom is. Look at Redden, he could be great but he too plays physical and has had injury problems.

There's something to be said for not banging your body and getting banged night in and night out.

[eva unit zero 271]

The 5-on-5 does concern me. The young guys are not playing as well as everyone had hoped. I don't understand why, exactly. Cleary, Drake, Draper, etc. should be scoring, or at least getting close. After all, our new style of play supposedly leads to goals. It certainly does seem like we only have two good lines, and the wingers (except for Homer) aren't good enough. Hopefully things improve.

Just for reference, here's the even strength scoring of the seven forwards who have been 'top six' so far this season, based on only games in the top six:

Zetterberg 3GP, 0g-3a-3pt

Samuelsson 3GP, 1g-2a-3pt

Hudler 3GP, 0g-1a-1pt

Datsyuk 3GP, 0g-1a-1pt

Holmstrom 3GP, 0g-0a-0pt

Franzen 2GP, 0g-0a-0pt

Filppula 1GP, 0g-0a-0pt

I'd say it's pretty clear where the scoring issue is...and it's the Datsyuk/Holmstrom/whoever else line that only has one ES point in three games, and that was Datsyuk's assist on Draper's empty net goal, with Zetterberg also on the ice. Also please note that both Hudler and Samuelsson have scored more at ES than Holmstrom, whom you suggest is the only winger contributing on the top two lines.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just for reference, here's the even strength scoring of the seven forwards who have been 'top six' so far this season, based on only games in the top six:

Zetterberg 3GP, 0g-3a-3pt

Samuelsson 3GP, 1g-2a-3pt

Hudler 3GP, 0g-1a-1pt

Datsyuk 3GP, 0g-1a-1pt

Holmstrom 3GP, 0g-0a-0pt

Franzen 2GP, 0g-0a-0pt

Filppula 1GP, 0g-0a-0pt

I'd say it's pretty clear where the scoring issue is...and it's the Datsyuk/Holmstrom/whoever else line that only has one ES point in three games, and that was Datsyuk's assist on Draper's empty net goal, with Zetterberg also on the ice. Also please note that both Hudler and Samuelsson have scored more at ES than Holmstrom, whom you suggest is the only winger contributing on the top two lines.

I'm becoming more concerned with each game. In truth, Franzen going down likely means more DZH, which likely means more output. But who is going to get the ball rolling on lines 2 and 3? In all honesty, Sammy looks pretty good so far, more patient with the puck. But I don't see Cleary doing what he did last year. I don't see Hudler being good enough to generate offense, I think he'd be better at finishing. Franzen is out. Filpulla is being groomed as a two-way guy so I don't expect to see him notch 20 this year. Who else am I missing? Seriously, we lack scoring ability at even strength. I hate being right. I hope the boys prove me wrong.

[theman19 47]

the weakness of the second line is more apparent every game. We're dangerously close to be coming a one line hockey club.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Vernon pushed him over. I don't how that was an ass kicking. There as hardly a punch thrown .

Oh no, we have a divealanche fan on this forum! And we thought that Blackhawks fan that always posts here was annoying. Let me guess, you probably think that Sakic is the best captain ever, and that Scott Parker can't be beaten by any man on Earth?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Im completely lost as to why people are so worried about the offense with this club. We're averaging 3 goals a game. Granted, one of those came from an EN, but its still not nearly as bad as it could be. The problem is with the defense and letting teams get back into the game after we already have them out by two goals. You have to give the guys time to get settled into their lines. The top 2 lines had to be reworked after 1.5 games had been played...and theyve barely played consecutive games featuring the same top 6 combinations. Lets wait to freak out when we cant pot 2 goals a game.

[Opie 308]

Im completely lost as to why people are so worried about the offense with this club. We're averaging 3 goals a game. Granted, one of those came from an EN, but its still not nearly as bad as it could be. The problem is with the defense and letting teams get back into the game after we already have them out by two goals. You have to give the guys time to get settled into their lines. The top 2 lines had to be reworked after 1.5 games had been played...and theyve barely played consecutive games featuring the same top 6 combinations. Lets wait to freak out when we cant pot 2 goals a game.

From what little I have watched of the 3 games played so far the biggest weakness seems to be the trailer on the play.

It seems like the D (whole team not just D-men) is getting caught watching the puck side of the ice with their sticks off of the ice, then a pass slides to the late guy coming through on the other side of the ice and the player is looking at a goalie moving across the crease and no one in between the shooter and the goalie.

That's my opinion we welcome yours.

[redwing711 0]

Don't avoid it. Players like Pronger , Blake and Neidamayer can put up the points and lay the body..I have NEVER seen Lidstrom throw a check. He's one of the greatest defensemen to ever play the game , but thats one weakness in his game.

Yeah, clearly a weakness, that's why he is consistantly considered for the Norris and usually wins. As for Pronger, how much help is he when he's not on the ice, which is what happens when he gets suspended for cheapshots. Blake doesn't even belong in the same category as Lidstrom, which is why he wasn't nominated. As for Neidermayer, I have no problem with him.

Your claim that Lidstrom hurts the Wings in the playoffs is just ridiculous. If he were available, there isn't a team out there that wouldn't jump at the chance to have him. How can the best defenseman in the league be a bad thing during the playoffs. It's called skill. Lidstrom can make the plays without being a goon like Pronger. Jealous are you?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Im completely lost as to why people are so worried about the offense with this club. We're averaging 3 goals a game. Granted, one of those came from an EN, but its still not nearly as bad as it could be. The problem is with the defense and letting teams get back into the game after we already have them out by two goals. You have to give the guys time to get settled into their lines. The top 2 lines had to be reworked after 1.5 games had been played...and theyve barely played consecutive games featuring the same top 6 combinations. Lets wait to freak out when we cant pot 2 goals a game.

Here's the thing for me: Forget about the DZH line for a second. By the way, of those goals per game you're talking about, how many are at even strength, which is the point of the thread to begin with. We cannot count on the DZH line to be our only weapon and our powerplay to be our only weapon.

If you take Z off the line, you have Datsyuk and Homer and no winger with breakaway speed or pure sniping talent. We don't have a Heatley that can score from anywhere inside the circles and in. IMO, that makes the Dats line not nearly the threat we'd like to believe it is. Sorry, Franzen is not the answer.

Then look at the other lines, Z is so far above his linemates who aren't named Datsyuk and Homer its pretty much the same situation. With Dats and Z on one line we have a legitmate even strength power line and you can see it when they're on the ice together, even at even strength. You split them up and you have 2 great centers with okay wingers. Nobody with breakaway speed and nobody you'd put in a class with guy's like Vanek, Heatley, Iginla, Hossa, etc.. What do we have? Sammy, Cleary, Franzen? Sorry, those are 3rd line guys, maybe 2nd liners in a pinch.

The bottom two lines, what exactly do we think they're going to contribute offensively? The Kopecky, Drake, Maltby line will probably score 12 goals between it all season.

We don't have enough firepower. Take away the PP goals and how are we looking? Eva already pointed it out. We look ******* terrible (statistically) through 3 games at even strength.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

As I said last night, even though Lang and Bertuzzi were lazy out on the ice, they gave us much more of a scoring threat on the 2nd line than what we're bound to get from Fillpula, Sammy, or Hudler. That is why I wanted us to get a top 6 forward in the offseason, because now with our big line back together, I have a hard time seeing any other line being a valid scoring threat.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

As I said last night, even though Lang and Bertuzzi were lazy out on the ice, they gave us much more of a scoring threat on the 2nd line than what we're bound to get from Fillpula, Sammy, or Hudler. That is why I wanted us to get a top 6 forward in the offseason, because now with our big line back together, I have a hard time seeing any other line being a valid scoring threat.

Well everybody knows we need a top six forward. There were none really available this offseason and those that were, were overpaid. We'll have a top tier forward come Christmas, we just have to be patient.

[Guest Crymson]

the weakness of the second line is more apparent every game. We're dangerously close to be coming a one line hockey club.

It has been three games.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

It has been three games.

Yeah, we know its only been three games. Put it this way, let's say Z was bumped to the Dats line so our second line was like Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson. I don't care if its 3 games or 53 games, that line still stinks of donkey ass. The only way it doesn't is by having different personnel and currently, there isn't anyone in the organization that makes the 2nd line look better.

2008 potential free agents. Please correct me if i'm wrong on these (Eva)

Marian Hossa

Brian Rolston

David Legwand

JP Dumont

Miro Satan

Brendan Shanahan

Marty Straka

Markus Naslund

slim pickings if you ask me. Wings need to work out a trade for somebody down the road.

[Avalanche Warning 0]

Oh no, we have a divealanche fan on this forum! And we thought that Blackhawks fan that always posts here was annoying. Let me guess, you probably think that Sakic is the best captain ever, and that Scott Parker can't be beaten by any man on Earth?

I think Joe Sakic is the best active captain in the league, and in the top 5 on the all time list. Classiest athlete in sports. For the Sheriff? He's a fan favorite but I personally wouldn't dress him for many games.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I think Joe Sakic is the best active captain in the league, and in the top 5 on the all time list. Classiest athlete in sports. For the Sheriff? He's a fan favorite but I personally wouldn't dress him for many games.

If all you are looking for on this board is a bunch of screaming and to see how much you can piss others off, I suggest you find a hornets nest and stick you head in it.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Yeah, we know its only been three games. Put it this way, let's say Z was bumped to the Dats line so our second line was like Hudler, Cleary, Samuelsson. I don't care if its 3 games or 53 games, that line still stinks of donkey ass. The only way it doesn't is by having different personnel and currently, there isn't anyone in the organization that makes the 2nd line look better.

Thats your opinion and thats fine. I believe given more time they will begin to gel and play much better. Hudler has dominated at every level he's played. Cleary finally had a break out year last year and Sammy has done pretty decent so far. Not too mention we have Filpulla too. We'll be just fine. We have to give Hudler and Filpulla lots of minutes to let them develop. We all know we need a top 6 guy I'd just rather give the young guys the minutes for now. They will get better. Have a little faith.

[stevkrause 1,247]

this whole thread made me laugh so much, I peed a little...

[Grittzkey 1]

im not concerned about it. llines are still meshing together with new faces new places.. new duties..more playing time.. there just getting aqquainted with eachother..

on the pplay.. theres Homer-Datz-Z-Lindstrom-Rafalski.. basically the same unit as last year minus rafalski.. and he's not exactly an anchor to hte powerplay like the other 4.

come mid season itll start to balance out once the 5-5 lines get more chemistry