grigorenko

[Hank 0]

Wow, project much? How in the world do you know any of those things? If he's got all of those dollars waiting in the "CCCP", why the hell did he come over? If that was the case, he could be rolling around in all his tax-free dollars right now, instead of putting himself under intense media scrutiny, moving himself and his family to a foreign country, all the while attempting to play in the most elite hockey league in the world. So your statement holds no water. As far as his fitness level is concerned, maybe you're right, maybe not; we won't know until he plays, or we actually get a report about his attitude/fitness. But to present it as "we know" he's not motivated is simply speculation based on your impression of him gathered through the media and a translator. Actually, he has said that the level of play in the AHL is higher than in Russia, that there is no guarantee he'll return in November if he's still in the AHL, and that almost all that have observed him has said that he continues to get better.

You may be right. But for all we know, his deal has a lot of incentives in there so that he could make more money in the NHL than in Russia. He was making $1M over there but here he could easily make over that if he scores 20 goals or more.

Still, the fact that he couldn't make this team when Holland and co. basically gave him a roster spot says something about his commitment to NHL hockey. All he had to do was show up in shape. Hundreds of other Russians and Europeans do it every year so there's no excuse for that. I don't care how much of a cultural difference there is. A treadmill is a treadmill in any country.

He's played with former and current NHLers in international tournaments the last couple of years. I'm sure someone on those teams gave him the impression that you have to be in shape to survive in the NHL.

This experiment is nearly over. I hope Grigs can turn it around but I don't see him sticking around much longer after November 1st if he's still struggling to put up points in Grand Rapids making $80,000 US. $1M can pay for a lot of moving expenses for him and his family.

Besides, I hear the McDonalds in Russia has larger Big Macs. I'm sure he can't wait to chomp in to one of those.

[Hank 0]

I spotted Grig at Cheli's last night.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Hank

[Opie 308]

I spotted Grig at Cheli's last night.

PRICELESS!!!!!!!

[Kp-Wings 3]

I spotted Grig at Cheli's last night.

[VM1138 1,921]

He has absolutely no motivation to perform well in Grand Rapids.

That is exactly the problem with Grigs. He has no motivation at all. He would be a cancer in the dressing room, and probably lazier than Bobbert Lang.

[Kutcher 0]

I think it's time to give up hope on the kid. Actions speak louder than words and he's proving nothing.

Showing up out of shape on day 1 of camp was our first red flag that this kid isn't NHL material.

Be glad we have Dats, Hank, Flip, Kopeck, Kronner, and Ellias. One prospect flop in grigs isn't that bad considering all the other diamonds our scouts found.

Kopecky & Ellis, Diamonds.... am I missing something here?

[Stu in Israel 0]

Grigorenko accepted being sent to Grand Rapids (instead of immediately going back to Russia), so maybe that means that he'll try and get himself into better shape physically. While his physical shape is a big issue, Babcock and others were impressed by his "hands" and his on-ice "vision," whatever those two terms mean. So let's have a little patience with him, and maybe come summer he'll go to the conditioning camp that Cheli goes to in southern California, which was also attended by Hudler ths past summer.

By the way, CCCP is the Soviet Union (Union of Soviet Socailist Republics) which no longer exists!

[Hank 0]

By the way, CCCP is the Soviet Union (Union of Soviet Socailist Republics) which no longer exists!

Or so Putin would want you to believe.

[Kutcher 0]

We could always compare Grigs Career NHL Ice time to Kopecky & Ellis.

Ellis was a GREAT player for the Griffins. What has Grigs done? Ellis come to NHL and works hard EVERY shift. What has Grigs done? Kopecky is doing a good job in the NHL. What has Grigs done?

They are diamonds for what they were expected to be. Grigs was suppose to be our top 3 behind Hank and Dats and proved nothing! While Ellis is assisting a goal for Hankster on our top line and making things happen, Grigs is down in GR playing tummy sticks.

Ellis and Kopecky can and will contribute more than some other teams top pics.

Its fine that Ellis works hard but he has no talent. he plays on the 3rd and 4th lines usually and can't do anything, dump him and give his spot to Downey he will actually play that role, same goes for Kopecky. Hell even call up Helm, who is a great defensive forward, and give him a shot. I'm sure he will play the 3rd and 4th line role 100 times better than Kopecky and Ellis Combined.

Kopecky is about as effective as a one legged man in an ass kicking contast. He is probably our worst player, with Ellis not far behind him.

You can put anyone on the ice with Hank right now and they'd probably get an assist.

I just don't see what the team sees in these two bums. I mean Kopecky is 6'4 200lbs, and I'm pretty sure my 5 year old cousin can hit harder than him. Ellis got an assist playing with Hank, I believe Grigs got one to, not that i think grigs is any better than those other two bums.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Its fine that Ellis works hard but he has no talent. he plays on the 3rd and 4th lines usually and can't do anything, dump him and give his spot to Downey he will actually play that role, same goes for Kopecky. Hell even call up Helm, who is a great defensive forward, and give him a shot. I'm sure he will play the 3rd and 4th line role 100 times better than Kopecky and Ellis Combined.

Kopecky is about as effective as a one legged man in an ass kicking contast. He is probably our worst player, with Ellis not far behind him.

You can put anyone on the ice with Hank right now and they'd probably get an assist.

I just don't see what the team sees in these two bums. I mean Kopecky is 6'4 200lbs, and I'm pretty sure my 5 year old cousin can hit harder than him. Ellis got an assist playing with Hank, I believe Grigs got one to, not that i think grigs is any better than those other two bums.

Ellis is relatively young (26) and cracking into the NHL. There's a chance he has upside once he adjust to the game. Same goes for Kopecky. He was looking pretty good before the broken collar bone.

Hanks goal the other night was mostly due to Ellis's hard work crashing the net.

Both of those guys have a better shot at becoming solid role players. Downey has kicked around the NHL for 5 or 6 years now and is a known quantity. A guy who'll throw the occasional hit and drop the gloves, but isn't good for anything else.

I seriously don't understand the fascination with Downey. Why waste a roster spot on a 33 year old who can't do anything but fight (and not that well), when we have younger guys that may actually develop?

[bringback91 2]

We could always compare Grigs Career NHL Ice time to Kopecky & Ellis.

Ellis was a GREAT player for the Griffins. What has Grigs done? Ellis come to NHL and works hard EVERY shift. What has Grigs done? Kopecky is doing a good job in the NHL. What has Grigs done?

They are diamonds for what they were expected to be. Grigs was suppose to be our top 3 behind Hank and Dats and proved nothing! While Ellis is assisting a goal for Hankster on our top line and making things happen, Grigs is down in GR playing tummy sticks.

Ellis and Kopecky can and will contribute more than some other teams top pics.

What has Grigs done? He's played a whole 3 games in the AHL. When exactly was he touted as the "top 3 behind hank and dats"? Your opinion on him is clear, and there's nothing wrong with that. Your preching it as though it's the gospel is silly. Glad your not a scout or a coach, rush to judgement much?

[e_mcgrath88 0]

its a good thing they don't let any of you people run a hockey team, or grigs would be on a plane back to russia after 3 games THREE games.. in a league he's never played in and in places he has never been.. and how many have even seen him in an actual game situation in GR?

[Kutcher 0]

Ellis is relatively young (26) and cracking into the NHL. There's a chance he has upside once he adjust to the game. Same goes for Kopecky. He was looking pretty good before the broken collar bone.

Hanks goal the other night was mostly due to Ellis's hard work crashing the net.

Both of those guys have a better shot at becoming solid role players. Downey has kicked around the NHL for 5 or 6 years now and is a known quantity. A guy who'll throw the occasional hit and drop the gloves, but isn't good for anything else.

I seriously don't understand the fascination with Downey. Why waste a roster spot on a 33 year old who can't do anything but fight (and not that well), when we have younger guys that may actually develop?

Because we need grit and like it or not Downey is the grittiest guy on our roster, and he provides lots of energy to bring momentum. I'd much rather have a 4th liner on my 4th line rather than a plug who may turn out to be a career 3rd liner. Like neither of kopecky or ellis have that much offensive talent to warrent a roster spot based on that.

Neither are all that defensive or physical either. Which is why I can't see why they are up with the big club when they offer nothing that the team needs. Theres guys waiting in GR who know their role and play it well ( helm) for one.

Why not give a guy a 3rd line spot and develop him into a 3rd line guy when that is where he is comfortable being. Ellis , if he is lucky will be a 3rd liner some where in the league one day, but I doubt that its with Detroit. And Kopecky , well what else is there to say , the guy is Robert Lang with out the talent, it's funny watching him play and thinking "how the hell did this kid make the NHL" .

[e_mcgrath88 0]

What has Grigs done? He's played a whole 3 games in the AHL. When exactly was he touted as the "top 3 behind hank and dats"? Your opinion on him is clear, and there's nothing wrong with that. Your preching it as though it's the gospel is silly. Glad your not a scout or a coach, rush to judgement much?

dont pay attention to sandman.. every time i see one of his posts my eyes just pass over it because his comments are always absurd, and he is obviolsly clueless on just about everything that involves hockey.. like my above post says.. how do you give up on a guy that has played 3 game in a league he has never played in, in a place he's never been before..

[Stu in Israel 0]

QUOTE(Stu in Israel @ October 17, 2007 - 11:53AM)

By the way, CCCP is the Soviet Union (Union of Soviet Socailist Republics) which no longer exists!

Or so Putin would want you to believe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, and all the former southern Moslem republics (which all end in "istan") all of which were once a part of that "CCCP" are all now independent countries!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Because we need grit and like it or not Downey is the grittiest guy on our roster, and he provides lots of energy to bring momentum. I'd much rather have a 4th liner on my 4th line rather than a plug who may turn out to be a career 3rd liner. Like neither of kopecky or ellis have that much offensive talent to warrent a roster spot based on that.

Neither are all that defensive or physical either. Which is why I can't see why they are up with the big club when they offer nothing that the team needs. Theres guys waiting in GR who know their role and play it well ( helm) for one.

Why not give a guy a 3rd line spot and develop him into a 3rd line guy when that is where he is comfortable being. Ellis , if he is lucky will be a 3rd liner some where in the league one day, but I doubt that its with Detroit. And Kopecky , well what else is there to say , the guy is Robert Lang with out the talent, it's funny watching him play and thinking "how the hell did this kid make the NHL" .

This team needs good players who are gritty. Not just grit in any form. As much fun as it might be to watch Downey out there mucking it up, the trick is to do it without the puck ending up in the back of our net.

I'm not sure I understand the rest of your message. you'd rather have a 4th liner like downey, than a career third liner. are you saying that'd kopecky or ellis?

Like I said, these are younger guys who are just breaking into the league. They need some time to develop on the big club before we know what they can really do.

This team needs grit for sure. Downey is not the answer.

As for Kopecky, I haven't seen him play a ton but in his last season in the AHL he had 32 goals and 40 assists and was +24. Clearly there's some talent there. Hopefully it will translate to the NHL. Downey on the other hand has done little other than amass penalty minutes in any league.

Edited October 17, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Izzy24 44]

I spotted Grig at Cheli's last night.

I can see a resemblance.

[Kutcher 0]

This team needs good players who are gritty. Not just grit in any form. As much fun as it might be to watch Downey out there mucking it up, the trick is to do it without the puck ending up in the back of our net.

I'm not sure I understand the rest of your message. you'd rather have a 4th liner like downey, than a career third liner. are you saying that'd kopecky or ellis?

Like I said, these are younger guys who are just breaking into the league. They need some time to develop on the big club before we know what they can really do.

This team needs grit for sure. Downey is not the answer.

I'm saying that from what I've watched both Kopecky and Ellis won't be more than 3rd liners.

But since Downey is what we have why not use him. He can't turn the puck over or be more less defensively sound than Kopecky. If Kopecky would learn to play the body and not be such a puss, then I could deal with his other inabilities.

I'm just saying that the team needs grit and scoring, a player who can bring both would be ideal, but since we don't have someone like that, might as well meet one of our needs. Ellis and/or Kopecky aren't gritty or offensive, maybe they will be in the future but Kopecky certainly hasn't shown any signs of either on a regular basis which is why I find it pointless to have them out there when they are just hurting the team. Atleast Downey would do something no one else would. And he may not be the best fighter in the league but hes a pretty decent one.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Kutcher

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'm saying that from what I've watched both Kopecky and Ellis won;t be more than 3rd liners.

But since Downey is what we have why not use him. He can't turn the puck over or be more less defensively sound than Kopecky. If Kopecky would learn to play the body and not be such a puss, then I could deal with his other inabilities.

I'm just saying that the team needs grit and scoring, a player who can bring both would be ideal, but since we don't have someone like that, might as well meet one of our needs. Ellis and/or Kopecky aren't gritty or offensive, maybe they will be in the future but Kopecky certainly hasn't shown any signs of either on a regular basis which is why I find it pointless to have them out there when they are just hurting the team. Atleast Downey would do something no one else would. And he may not be the best fighter in the league but hes a pretty decent one.

But a 3rd liner is something Downey will never be.

I think ellis and Kopecky (mostly ellis) have the potential to be gritty. As I mentioned, Hank's goal the other night was because of Ellis's hard work around the net. If he keeps that up, he's already more valuable to the team than Downey.

I don't see how Ellis and Kopecky hurt the team any more than Downey does when he's on the ice. He's not exactly a two way player. Or even a one way for that matter.

Like I said, and you seem to agree, Kopecky and Ellis have the potential to be third liners. That's way more than Downey will ever become. There's a chance they can play grittier and be defensively responsible. But they're gonna need the ice time for that to happen.

Whereas Downey is a dead end. Why waste the minutes?

[Izzy24 44]

Clue #1:

Did he NOT know that he was coming to America and playing in the toughest hockey league known to man?

A.) He obviously doesn't give a sh*t. Why else didn't he bother to learn English?

B.) He obviously doesn't give a shi*t. Why else didn't he bother to learn NHL style?

C.) He obviously doesn't give a shi*t. Why else didn't he bother to condition for the game?

D.) He obviously is wasting our time if he doesn't give a rats ass enough to prepare for NHL. I know, 6yrs notice isn't THAT long, right?

That's like a foreign back specialist knowing 6 years prior that he's coming to America to study Dentistry. And has one month to become familiarized before being thrown into full time public services.

Is preparing for the game really that hard? Especially since it's YOUR godly talent and career?!

Yeah don't listen to me... he had only 3 games. LMFAO!

P.S. if the slack azz would have prepared for NHL he'd have 10 games. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!11!!

He said f*ck us from not preparing for OUR sport, OUR NHL that we, the fans, live and BREATH???!?!? I say F*ck him and ship his AZZback to the whole he came from!

Which is it?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

C) is the one that really speaks volumes to me about Grigorenko.

How do you not show up in shape and ready to take your shot at cracking the NHL lineup?

[Kutcher 0]

Because i feel that the team needs the grit now. If they can develop, hey I'm all for that, but there's a time when you need the help before you can develop it. And I feel that we need some grit, I don't think Downey is the best solution, but he is A solution.

I just get really irritated when I see a guy with Kopecky's size being out played (in a gritty sense) by a guy Drake's size or Hudler's size. Maybe having them sit and giving those minutes to Downey a few times they will get the hint to use their size and not be pussie's.

[bringback91 2]

He said f*ck us from not preparing for OUR sport, OUR NHL that we, the fans, live and BREATH???!?!? I say F*ck him and ship his AZZback to the whole he came from!

This right here tells me everything I need to know.

Answer me this then, lets say your right, what exactly did he gain by coming over at all? He's losing money and respect right now that he'd already have from the "whole/hole" where he came from. Why bother coming to face the adversity, move his "hole/whole" family, lose out on tax free money, and all the rest? "Our" sport, how ******* ignorant. Well Canada better give back football, and Latin America better give back baseball. Those are "my" sports.

[brutus 0]

Clue #1:

Did he NOT know that he was coming to America and playing in the toughest hockey league known to man?

A.) He obviously doesn't give a sh*t. Why else didn't he bother to learn English?

B.) He obviously doesn't give a shi*t. Why else didn't he bother to learn NHL style?

C.) He obviously doesn't give a shi*t. Why else didn't he bother to condition for the game?

D.) He obviously is wasting our time if he doesn't give a rats ass enough to prepare for NHL. I know, 6yrs notice isn't THAT long, right?

That's like a foreign back specialist knowing 6 years prior that he's coming to America to study Dentistry. And has one month to become familiarized before being thrown into full time public services.

Is preparing for the game really that hard? Especially since it's YOUR godly talent and career?!

Yeah don't listen to me... he had only 3 games. LMFAO!

P.S. if the slack ass would have prepared for NHL he'd have 10 games. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!11!!

He said f*ck us from not preparing for OUR sport, OUR NHL that we, the fans, live and BREATH???!?!? I say F*ck him and ship his ASS back to the hole he came from!

Dude you are seriously psycho...I hope you don't have a dog.

brutus

[bringback91 2]

Case in point:

My skills are playing heavy metal guitar. Lets say the manager of Rammstein's offered me to play guitar for them in 6yrs and have a good opportunity of making over 4 million a year.. or more.

6ys later, I show up for the first practice not understanding a word they speak or have any idea what kind of riffs they play, because I didn't bother taking a minute out of the past 6ys to study or condition for their music.

Should they send me over to their trainers and specialist, pay me 1 million and hope for the best?

Or should they say F*CK YOU Chaz, go home you obviously don't care to be here?

I pick the second.

Yeah, because WE ALL know NHL is in Russia

Who is your favorite NHL Russia team? LMFAO!!! dumbass

Anyone that speaks any language and plays guitar can play 3 chords. 3 chords is 3 chords, hockey skills are hockey skills. Unless your writing lyrics to the next "Du haust" then what the hell does it really matter? You know how to play your insturment and grigs knows how to play hockey. You wouldn't be pissed if the fans of the band were trying to send you back home simply by reading accounts of a few band practices instead of giving you a chance to play a couple shows?

Actually Russia does follow the NHL rather closely and it's reguarded as the best leauge in the world. I'm the dumbass, yet this is what you said:

"He said f*ck us from not preparing for OUR sport, OUR NHL "

I didn't know anyone "owned" any sport, and there's people in the NHL and fans from Montreal that can barely speak english or non at all, should they be sent back to their "whole"?

Here's another gem highlighting your overall IQ and hockey knowledge. Taken from the Doan thread:

MrSandMan Today, 10:15 AM Post #56

"Anyone capable of scoring 30 goals with Phoenix is capable of scoring 90 with Hank and Dats."

By the way, in your haste to educate me on the fact there are no NHL teams based in russia, you seemed to have overlooked all legit questions I asked you, care to address those since you have so much insight into the mans life?

Edited October 17, 2007 by bringback91