Dom Drops Ball, Ozzie Answers Call

[2probert4 8]

Now? Ozzie's been #1 for awhile now. Hmm...or maybe that's just me.

It's amazing how people on here freak out after a loss or two in a row, or if a goalie has a bad game, etc etc.

[seeinred 1,488]

Hasek had absolutely zero chance on 3 of the 4 goals given up. 5-on-3 PP scramble goal, 5-on-4 PP goal after everything broke down and the puck was in the Wings zone forever, and Mayers made a bullseye of a shot that nobody stops unless they are a 7 foot sumo wrestler.

I'm with you as far as it not being a big deal. But he absolutely should have had that Mayers goal. It was a shot from the outside, the kind you need your goalie to stop. If he gives up 1 in every couple hundred of those shots, no big deal, so I can let it slide. The 2 PP goals were garbage goals though, not much he could have done except get a better bounce after the save. The other goal was really weak. In reality it was a terrible game for Dom, but he's allowed to have one every once in a blue moon (in the regular season).

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

I'm hoping we FINALLY and SERIOUSLY address the "starting" goaltender issue after this game. Dom couldn't stop the first scrum goal. The others were ridiculus. The second goal looked weak as hell, the third he just let trickle on him, and the Meyer goal, though a rocket it was, please don't tell me you just let in 4 goals on 11 shots and in one period!? The Wings played horrible after that because they were deflated, you don't have a 2 goal lead turn to a 2 goal deficit in 10 minutes and keep your head up. Though Ozzie didn't face many shots, he had to make some great saves to make a comeback possible. Ozzie hasn't had a shakey game all season, whereas whenever I hear Hasek is starting I feel doubt creep in like an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

This isn't about the 90's and this isn't about "slow starts", we are nearing the 20th game of the season and Hasek has proved to be nothing but s***, carrying it over from the last game in the Western Conference finals last spring. Go with the hot goaltender.

And no, I don't care anymore about the logic that if you don't play Dom he won't get better. Past the 1/5 mark of the season with pathetic play like Dom has shown so far in contrast to the tremendous play of Ozzie, "s*** or get off the pot" time is about over. Every shot on goal tonite I expected to go in on Dom, he just looks shaky and the first Perron goal was just sad, and the biggest relief all night was after the 4th goal when Babs talked to an assistant and gave Ozzie the nod. I'm pretty sure Hasek still gets credited with the loss, since the game winner went in when he was between the pipes, right?

THANK YOU When is Ozzie's play gonna be good enough and Dom's play going to be down right s***ty enough to finally consider Osgood the #1. "But Osgood once let in half ice shots", "Dom won 6 Vezina trophies".... is it 99? If so, I'm gonna party like it is.... hopefully my hangover is remedied by some Tylenol, little hair of the dog, and seeing CHRIS OSGOOD in goal

Poor Hasek, he faced a whole 11 shots..... its a crying shame.....

You must not have seen Dom in Buffalo he has let in a few shots from center ice also

[b.shanafan14 733]

You must not have seen Dom in Buffalo he has let in a few shots from center ice also

haha I know, just pointing out how crazy some people are when building up Dom and bring down Ozzie, think they watched the '98 cup run video too many times.

Osgood has stepped up this season, Dom should step down. Quit pandering to Hasek's ego and taking losses because he is the "starter", I'm not saying don't play him, and we do need him to get better, but in a back up role, whether he likes it or not. If he decides to bail out there afterwards, whatever. Hockey is a great sport because of the blue collar, Dan Cleary types, not because of a 42 year old goaltender that can't do his job anymore but is kept in a starting role to accomedate his ego

[eva unit zero 271]

haha I know, just pointing out how crazy some people are when building up Dom and bring down Ozzie, think they watched the '98 cup run video too many times.

Clearly they didn't watch the whole thing. As I've said before...if I could take the tradeoff my goalie letting in center ice goals like Ozzie did in 98, and have each year end the same way 98 did...I'd take that deal every time.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I'm with you as far as it not being a big deal. But he absolutely should have had that Mayers goal. It was a shot from the outside, the kind you need your goalie to stop. If he gives up 1 in every couple hundred of those shots, no big deal, so I can let it slide. The 2 PP goals were garbage goals though, not much he could have done except get a better bounce after the save. The other goal was really weak. In reality it was a terrible game for Dom, but he's allowed to have one every once in a blue moon (in the regular season).

exactly right. George Malik, who posts the (awesome) snapshots blog on mlive agreeswith you completely, BTW.

perspectives on the game

Hasek moved around his crease about as comfortably as a fire ant exterminator on a bad day, but the only goal he gave up that was truly suspect was Perron's breakaway tally, which cleanly beat Hasek between the legs. The two power-play goals against were in-tight jams with three Red Wings standing around him, and Mayers' goal was simply a perfect top-shelf shot. He wasn't great, but his teammates certainly earned their share of the Limburger in what was, arguably, the Wings' worst loss of the season.

A collective ball-dropping situation, as it were.

[union drone 0]

Hasek is a professional and future hall of famer. Unless Dom is hurt, throw him right back out there. If he drops the ball regularly, start thinking about plan B. If he does okay, alternate him and Ozzy until Dom returns to top form.

I would rather have a losing streak of a few games and a clear answer, than a full season of question marks.

[puckloo39 5,686]

When is Ozzie's play gonna be good enough and Dom's play going to be down right s***ty enough to finally consider Osgood the #1. "But Osgood once let in half ice shots", "Dom won 6 Vezina trophies".... is it 99?

and Ozzie last won a Cup in 98. What's your point, again? They're both fine, and barring a career ending injury, I expect Hasek's not going anywhere.

[russianswede919293 95]

Are we serious here. Don't get me wrong because I support Ozzie and Hasek, but if I had to answer the wuestion : Which Red Wings goalie is your favorite? The answer is straight up Osgood. BUT this is a moot point because Hasek IS the 1A goalie and Oz is the 1B goalie...Period...end of sentence...

Anyone that TRIES to place blame on Hasek for last nights game didn't really watch. His defense did not remotely have his back as shown by the 2 in tight goals where nobody cleared the puck. And 2 of the goals were on the PK, one a 5-3 because the Wings can't keep out of the box lately. The Detroit Red Wings have played sub par hockey for 2 games now and neither loss is due to goaltenders. I will 100% say nothing has changed. Oz may start a couple till Dom is confident again but Hasek is still the 1A goalie and will be unless he blows a game that is his fault which is yet to happen.

[StevieY9802 6]

Firstly, I'm neither an Osgood or a Hasek slappie.

Hasek had absolutely zero chance on 3 of the 4 goals given up. 5-on-3 PP scramble goal, 5-on-4 PP goal after everything broke down and the puck was in the Wings zone forever, and Mayers made a bullseye of a shot that nobody stops unless they are a 7 foot sumo wrestler.

That being said, Babcock did the right thing yanking him this evening, and I think it was morseo as a message not just to Hasek but THE ENTIRE TEAM to pull their heads out their behinds. The change did help, but it was not because Hasek was total garbage. Again, absolutely little/no chance on the goals not including the breakaway.

Whether some like it or not, Hasek needs to keep playing. I'll repeat what I stated recently about this. Hasek, while he hasn't been dazzling, has been far from terrible like many have or will over-dramatize in here. Consider how the team has played in front of both goalies. Osgood has been rock solid and has probably stolen a game or two so far, but nobody in here can tell me with a straight face that the team has played as good in front of Hasek as they have in front of Osgood so far this season.

So Osgood playin well so far this season works out for the both of them, as I have recently stated. Osgood gets some more playing time, Hasek gets some extra rest but STILL PLAYS. It's a 1A/1B tandem, as of right now, where neither goalie is considered a "backup".

Hasek is nowhere near done, again consider how the team has played in front of him for some of the games he has been in net for (this evening, Anaheim game). And the only other games he lost were a 1-goaler and a shootout. Until there is a stretch of games where he just flat out stinks, he starts more of the games.

Hasek will be fine, Osgood is fine. Please, for the sanity of this forum and its members let's not have overdramatic knee-jerk overreactions.

That's how I feel. People around here, well any sports fan, jump the gun and say someone is done or whatever after a bad game. Anyone remember how bad he was playing down the stretch in 02? And he didn't have much of a chance on most of the goals. It's one game. And there were a lot of chances the Wings were giving up too. The guy is 5-2-1 and after one loss people are ready to call his career done. wow. I think Babcock and the rest of the Wings braintrust know what they are doing. I remember people saying Ellis shouldn't be on the team and how terrible he was before the start of the season. hows that turned out? People need to stop freaking out so much.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

That's how I feel. People around here, well any sports fan, jump the gun and say someone is done or whatever after a bad game. Anyone remember how bad he was playing down the stretch in 02? And he didn't have much of a chance on most of the goals. It's one game. And there were a lot of chances the Wings were giving up too. The guy is 5-2-1 and after one loss people are ready to call his career done. wow. I think Babcock and the rest of the Wings braintrust know what they are doing. I remember people saying Ellis shouldn't be on the team and how terrible he was before the start of the season. hows that turned out? People need to stop freaking out so much.

I agree. It's too early to say that Hasek is done or that we should trade him. He's a pro, and he'll try to fix his game as we've seen him do before. Let's not forget that Ozzie can go through slumps also. It's easy not to have slumps when all the pressure is on the other guy. We can't play so poorly defensively, however, and hope to get away with it no matter who's in net.

[Gizmo 21]

One game does not a trend make. But it's comforting to know that Ozzie's in the wings if the call is needed. We'll see how Dom responds... he's got a history of bouncing back after getting pulled.

[eva unit zero 271]

That's how I feel. People around here, well any sports fan, jump the gun and say someone is done or whatever after a bad game. Anyone remember how bad he was playing down the stretch in 02? And he didn't have much of a chance on most of the goals. It's one game. And there were a lot of chances the Wings were giving up too. The guy is 5-2-1 and after one loss people are ready to call his career done. wow. I think Babcock and the rest of the Wings braintrust know what they are doing. I remember people saying Ellis shouldn't be on the team and how terrible he was before the start of the season. hows that turned out? People need to stop freaking out so much.

The problem is that Hasek hasn't looked good all year. People are saying 'Hasek always starts slow, he'll bounce back and dominate.' Well guess what; Hasek has NEVER started this slow, and his performance has generally been in decline for the past few years. There is no guarantee Hasek CAN bounce back from this start; previous turnarounds were better starts for a younger goaltender. Hasek has looked slower this season than I can remember EVER seeing him. I hope he turns it around because I want to see the whole team succeed, but acting like it's a guarantee is a mistake.

[Louisville 112]

Well...at least Lilja wasn't playing, so you guys can't blame him.

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

Alright, Well heres my feelings as if anyone cares.

I've NEVER been a DOM fan whatsoever. He has always rubbed me the wrong way, i dont know what it is, maybe its the fact that he completely bailed on us in the past and then came out of retirement for another team, maybe its the unorthodox way he plays the game, maybe its because my heart stops everytime i see him come running out of next full speed at an oppsing teams player finishing the play with a baseball slide into the players legs like a baserunner taking out a shortstop to break up the double play., maybe its the fact that he apparently doesnt get the whole concept of the "goalie Stick" and tends to play better without one and likes to throw it at anything that moves on the ice, or maybes its the fact that i cant understand a word he says when he talks......anyways that list has nothing to do with what i want to talk about i just thought i would vent for a minute.

Anyways, So DOM....as much as i dont like the guy.....this was only one game. Im not going to jump on his back right away, i will need to see him play bad a few more times before i run him out of town. Fact is, hes aproven goalie, a proven winner, and a cup winning goalie. Results dont lie. Yes hes getting old, but we saw last year he can still be a fantastic 60/40 #1 goaltender. Now is he deminishing in talent? I cant argue with that. Hes nowhere near as talented as he used to be in my opinion, but at the same time many of you are saying that our defense is playing crappy infront of him. Ok, ill agree there, we dont play that great in front of DOM. But Dom is scaring me this year because last year when our defense would suck, he would come through and steal a few games for us and stand on his head. Ive yet to see that. A team needs to know that if they are lacking in one department in a particuar game that another player will come through and help out. If your defense is lacking a bit, a good save or great period from a golatender is a good kick in the rear to get them moving. Hasek hasnt done that for me this year, last year it happened quite a bit. I think he just needs to get going and he will be the DOM of old. But the current DOM has to go. Hes gotta start going, on most nights hes not seeing more than 15-20 shots, and letting 4 or 5 of these shots in is unacceptable. Dom needs to step up his game and play like he used to. His GAA is way to high for him if he wants to help us get in playoffs and then help us once we get there. He needs to get it atleast under 2.00. Anything over that to me is unacceptable wit hte defense that we have (Regardless if they play bad 1 out of 15 games, we dont habe McCabe so we cant blame the defense for everything) His save percentage is ridiculous as well, if im not mistaken its around .860-.870. I dont beleive any team got in playoffs last year with their goalie under a .900 save % (I may be wrong i did not fully research this). but Dom has gotta get that higher.

So is it time to give up on Dom? Not yet.

Is it time to give Ozzie more resposibility? Maybe untill dom gets a few more games under his belt. But in the same sense, how is dom ganna get better if we take starts away from him. You cant really win. I'd say let DOM keeps his starting spot for atleast a few more game and if the GAA doesnt go down and the SA% doesnt go up, then i say we have a problem.

At the same time, its noce to know we have Ozzie who has just been HUGE this season for us, so if Dom doesnt fix himself we have no worries in my book.

[Viperar 16]

Well...at least Lilja wasn't playing, so you guys can't blame him.

lol best post in thread

[Offsides 21]

It's amazing how people on here freak out after a loss or two in a row, or if a goalie has a bad game, etc etc.

I don't see a lot of freaking out. I see a lot of stating the facts. The only people who are freaking out are people who are insisting that Dom is still playing well enough to be called the starter. How many games does it have to stretch before we can call it good? If it was the other way around, there'd be NO DOUBT. In fact if it was any other goalie everyone would be calling for Hasek's head.

Now, I don't think Dom is totally done, I think he has potential to come back. I don't think people *should* call for his head, no. That's pointless. I say give him more of a backup type roll until he gets his act together giving them a split of games, but Ozzie getting the better teams.

No we CAN'T afford to play Dom 5 times consecutively just in case after 5 games and the magical number hit then he gets his groove back. He can be like anyone else and earn his spot. He's 'The Dominator' but he's also old and really has no chance to play anywhere else at this point, so if he decides to whine and not be a team player, that's his decision.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Jumpin' s*** people.

Hasek is OLD so he's starting SLOWER than usual.

Not to change the subject here but I think the goalie drama is outshining the real problem the Wings have right now. They need to add a reilable #4 defenceman.

If the Wings can't win the Cup with Osgood in net, they won't win with Dom. That simple. Find a backup that can handle the backup duties (ie come into a game on short notice) and be done with it.

I agree, and I'll take it a step further.

This defense, specifically the #2 pairing:

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Lilja

Chelios - Lebda

Is not good enough to win the cup. They miss Markov BAD. And replacing Lilly with Lebda and bringing in Meech is no good either.

[puckloo39 5,686]

here is Dom, "whining" about the game and his role last night:

Dominik Hasek could only express frustration at his own performance:

"One of those games you just feel you didn't help the team," Hasek said. "I don't have an explanation. It doesn't look good when you give up four goals in one period. I didn't get into the game. I'm not looking for excuses. I have to fight through this problem (not getting into the game mentally), or whatever you want to call it. I feel I can play much better."

As always, he is stand up and take his lumps.

[Offsides 21]

This defense, specifically the #2 pairing:

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Lilja

Chelios - Lebda

Is not good enough to win the cup. They miss Markov BAD. And replacing Lilly with Lebda and bringing in Meech is no good either.

IMO that depends on a few things. Lilja stepped up pretty big in the playoffs last year (well...until the END, sadly) but honestly I don't see our goalies suffering from getting more shots, etc...either Hasek or Ozzie would probably do better getting an average of 30 shots. We've always freaked out over having the best goalie in the league but also needing the best D in the league. As long as we don't lose our scoring ability in the playoffs I think we could be ok. Not saying we'll win the Cup...too many unknown factors.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The problem is that Hasek hasn't looked good all year. People are saying 'Hasek always starts slow, he'll bounce back and dominate.' Well guess what; Hasek has NEVER started this slow, and his performance has generally been in decline for the past few years. There is no guarantee Hasek CAN bounce back from this start; previous turnarounds were better starts for a younger goaltender. Hasek has looked slower this season than I can remember EVER seeing him. I hope he turns it around because I want to see the whole team succeed, but acting like it's a guarantee is a mistake.

Agreed.

Last nights game was a debacle on many levels, but this isn't just one game where Hasek has let in some questionable goals. He has not looked great yet this season. His numbers are terrible. I think of GAA as more of a team stat, and Hasek should benefit from a defensive team like Detroit, but he's got a 2.76 GAA and a .869 SV %.

The sky is not falling, but it definitely is cause for concern.

We've got a 42 year-old goalie who's playing poorly. It's not out of line to wonder, is this the beginning of the end?

Edited November 14, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[b.shanafan14 733]

The Red Wings outshoot their opponents night after night, they're defense, while it didn't play the greatest game last night as far as odd man rushes, worked hard to stop them before they became anything. Some people saying wanting Dom to take a back up role is stupid because of his slow starts or that "its just 1 game"

But here are the facts:

Dom is used to seeing 15-20 shots a game and GAA nearing 3

Dom as a starter is 5-3-1 in 9 starts, playing on a dominant team in the NHL

Dom has a save percentage of 86.9% (the worst among goaltenders)

Dom has seen an average of 20 shots a game, 37 goaltenders have seen more shots

Ozzie's GAA is 1.58 (third in the NHL)

Ozzie has a record 8-1-0 to start the season and plays solid as hell

Ozzie's save percentage is 93.1 (seventh best in the league

Ozzie has seen an average of 24 shots a game

How do you look the facts in the face, and say to stick with Dom and that Osgood is the "backup"? How has the defense played worse in front of Dom, considering shots on goal?

I ask again, for all the stick with Dom believers: How many losses merit reconsidering the distribution of starts? How many bad performances in sharp contrast to excellent play makes one reconcider the "starter"? How long do you plan to give Dom to shake off a slow start? When is the goalies play and preparation the goalies responsibilty? Are we really going to stick with a goaltender as a starter in fear that he'll throw a tantrum and retire? How many times have people ridden Osgood for not even terrible play, but shaky games? Are these people now defending Dom for what can only be called horendous goaltending? And finally, the question I've asked numerous times:

When is Dom going to play poorly enough, and Osgood play well enough, for people to finally notice whats right in their face?

Edited November 14, 2007 by b.shanafan14

[Kutcher 0]

^^^ agreed.

Maybe we need our trade dead line savings for a #1 goalie?

But I think Ozzie should be the #1 until he shows that he shouldn't.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

I love how 1/4th of the season is done and we're already acting like it's time for the playoffs. There's a long ways to go. I'll make a few predictions.

1. Osgood will not be in the top 10 in save percentage by the end of the season, and I doubt any regular starters will be above .930

2. Hasek won't be below .900 save %... I'd expect a .915 or so.

3. Osgood and Hasek will probably split the regular season quite closely.

You're not going to see a clear #1 here. When you have two potential #1s it would be stupid to play either of them the majority of the time. Both Hasek and Osgood are old (Hasek is considerably older), and both have had recent injury problems (Hasek having the worst of them). So, to play one goalie and not play the other could potentially backfire terribly. In fact, if we allow one of the two to dominate the games played category, we're probably setting them up for injury. And who really wants to go into the playoffs with Howard as our #2 (or even worst, our #1)? We all know this is a town that puts a lot of pressure on goalies, that'd be the kind of situation that could easily hurt his confidence as well as our confidence in him.

You won't see a clear #1 until playoffs time. So this entire thread is really quite meaningless. That being said, I do expect Hasek to be our playoff goalie.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

To me it's pretty simple. Ozzie is still red hot while Dom has been struggling. It's still only mid-November. Why not play the hot goalie?

If Dom is the consummate team player that a lot of you say he is, him sitting the bench a bit more for now shouldn't be an issue.

With 60 games left or whatever ,there is plenty of time to see who earns the #1 spot.