Dom Drops Ball, Ozzie Answers Call

[OsGOD 3]

Me too. Haha.

I also have an Ozzie one..and...it's possessed or something. It doesn't really have anything to do with anything...but sometimes I find him in different places then I left him.

I forgot about the Ozzie one....

[eva unit zero 271]

EUZ, you say Tommy Salo was overrated.

fair enough, that's your opinion.

But what have Vezina rankings, whether they are legitimate rankings or not is not even the issue, to do with the fact that you think he's overrated ?

Curtis Joseph finished once place behind him with better stats, Sean Burke finished in front of him with better stats.

So ? It only means Salo has gotten more votes.

Does that mean he is overrated ??

Generally, I really do value your opinion EUZ, but you can't explain / justify / strengthen everything with statistics.

Sometimes it's just a gut feeling.

[edit: tori spelling]

Salo placed with guys who had MUCH better stats. That means that despite the fact he faced fewer shots and gave up more goals than those guys, he was considered by the voting group to be at the same level as those guys. He clearly was not.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Dom does embelish his saves..as did Roy. It makes even mundane saves look like it was amazing. I actually define this as being of the the key differences in goaltenders who are considered 'elite'. Yeah, they have to have the numbers, but they also have to have the razzle dazzle...even though it accomplishes nothing.

I know this post comes from a while back. But since most of the guys on LGW seem to be in favor of getting more physical on the wings (and i've seen numerous threads with people posting hockey fights off youtube), what would you consider the value of fighting? It's psychological. Intimidate the opposition and rally the troops. If a goalie can make the opposition think he's robbing them time after time (when in reality his saves are routine), don't you think the opposing team's offence is more apt to become frusterated?

That being said, there's more than that seperating the elite from the rest.

[russianswede919293 95]

Don't know if this has been posted in here yet but:

Don't Change Anything

This is a good analysis of Ozzie being better than Dom right now, but keeping the time split and Dom the technical starter.

I think it makes a lot of sense.

[OsGOD 3]

I know this post comes from a while back. But since most of the guys on LGW seem to be in favor of getting more physical on the wings (and i've seen numerous threads with people posting hockey fights off youtube), what would you consider the value of fighting? It's psychological. Intimidate the opposition and rally the troops. If a goalie can make the opposition think he's robbing them time after time (when in reality his saves are routine), don't you think the opposing team's offence is more apt to become frusterated?

That being said, there's more than that seperating the elite from the rest.

Problem with that is when the Razzle Dazzle frazzles or Fizzles away... teams aren't frustrated... Doms lost his Razzle Dazzle, teams aren't frustrated and his stats are demonstrating just that... 86% of the time he can make a save... that OHL percents... or so i have been told countless times dealing with othre goalies...

My apologizes to any OHL goalies (you know who you are!!!!) you are way better than 86%... it was just a point to be made.

I will admit... Elite once... but no longer is the Dom... unless he can pick up tremendously!

Edited November 16, 2007 by OsGOD

[puckloo39 5,686]

I will admit... Elite once... but no longer is the Dom... unless he can pick up tremendously!

we shall see, starting tomorrow.

Ozzie's sick, Howard may be called up

Dom will be fine. The only ones who have no faith in him seem to be LGW fans, as the team and coach are confident he will be OK, according to the reports.

Dom needs to play to order to get back in it. I expect a huge game on Saturday. If he can bounce back, it will be one indication that Dom is still Dom. Normally, he comes back and plays out of his head after a bad outing.

Of course, the Wings will need to show up, too. No bowling or partying with Kid Rock the night before, please.

Hope Ozzie feels better soon.

Edited November 16, 2007 by puckloo39

[russianswede919293 95]

we shall see, starting tomorrow.

Ozzie's sick, Howard may be called up

Dom will be fine. The only ones who have no faith in him seem to be LGW fans, as the team and coach are confident he will be OK, according to the reports.

Dom needs to play to order to get back in it. I expect a huge game on Saturday. If he can bounce back, it will be one indication that Dom is still Dom. Normally, he comes back and plays out of his head after a bad outing.

Of course, the Wings will need to show up, too. No bowling or partying with Kid Rock the night before, please.

Hope Ozzie feels better soon.

I have faith in the Dominator Loo, and I am a LGW fan....so all but 2!!!!!!

[The Noodle 39 14]

Go Wings!! Go Dom!!

Hasek owns our souls!

[PenaltyShot 96 521]

I agree that Dom's play against St. Louis is cause for concern, but not quite cause for panic. It was one sub-par game, so Babs should continue to play him unless a pattern of poor play emerges. Ozzie may have the better numbers (and I am personnally inclined to favor Oz), but the Wings have won Lord Stanley with both goalies. So I'll give Hasek a do-over and reserve judgement.

But more importantly, since Ozzie is sick ( ) and Dom usually doesn't play back-to-back games, if Ozzie isn't feeling better by Sunday, who plays: Hasek or Howard?

[puckloo39 5,686]

I agree that Dom's play against St. Louis is cause for concern, but not quite cause for panic. It was one sub-par game, so Babs should continue to play him unless a pattern of poor play emerges. Ozzie may have the better numbers (and I am personnally inclined to favor Oz), but the Wings have won Lord Stanley with both goalies. So I'll give Hasek a do-over and reserve judgement.

But more importantly, since Ozzie is sick ( ) and Dom usually doesn't play back-to-back games, if Ozzie isn't feeling better by Sunday, who plays: Hasek or Howard?

I would give it to Dom, if Ozzie's not OK. I think the business about no back-to-backs is overkill (thought so last season, too). I am not saying make it a regular thing, but Dom would be just fine. Better than fine, actually, he'd probably love it.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Get well soon, Ozzie!

[Offsides 21]

I wanted Ozzie to play for my birthday tomorrow...he never does!

[puckloo39 5,686]

I wanted Ozzie to play for my birthday tomorrow...he never does!

sorry... I have similar luck with Dom, on the rare occasion that I have tickets to a Wings game. But if I get Ozzie in net in Dallas (Jan 5), I will be far from disappointed! I think Dom was scheduled to play anyway, even though Ozzie is ill.

Have a nice b'day... and get well soon, Ozzie (for Jen!)

Edited November 17, 2007 by puckloo39

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I know this post comes from a while back. But since most of the guys on LGW seem to be in favor of getting more physical on the wings (and i've seen numerous threads with people posting hockey fights off youtube), what would you consider the value of fighting? It's psychological. Intimidate the opposition and rally the troops. If a goalie can make the opposition think he's robbing them time after time (when in reality his saves are routine), don't you think the opposing team's offence is more apt to become frusterated?

That being said, there's more than that seperating the elite from the rest.

The 'flair' from a goaltender doesn't add any frustration to the players. As a player you know how difficult the save was to make. If the goalie throws his glove up after catching the puck, it doesn't make the fact that he saved the shot any more frustrating.

[Guest MrSandMan]

wowza... Dom Vs. Ozzy debates get a lot of attention. Personally, I think you are all wasting your time debating this. Dom is our #1. Unless he gets injured, nothings changing that.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

The 'flair' from a goaltender doesn't add any frustration to the players. As a player you know how difficult the save was to make. If the goalie throws his glove up after catching the puck, it doesn't make the fact that he saved the shot any more frustrating.

Are you kidding me? No no no, you've got to be joking. Aparently the few years since Roy retired we've completely forgotten what it's like to have a cocky, flair-filled, goalie doing the statue of liberty when he robes one of our players. I guarantee you his psychological presence was one of the main factors his teams won cups. He just made the opposition hate him (see "can't hear you with my cup rings in my ears" comments). Nothing was more satisfying than seeing Roy f-up with his cockyness to let in a goal in that game 6 against us. That burst the bubble on his intimidation and we stomped him the next game. Not a coincidence. Certainly the embellishment is going to piss off a player.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Nothing brings a bigger to my face than knowing it was our beloved Red Wings that chased poor Patty Waa outta Montreal that snowy December night in 1995, & then once again showing him the door in back-to-back games in the 2002 Cup run...Just awesome

it was pretty poetic, wasn't it? The Wings were his destiny!

"Flair" might not be the word I'd apply to Hasek's game... more like "unpredictable." Statue of Liberty saves and sticking the glove in the shooter's face could be called flair, I guess.

What Dom did over the years was simply do things no one else thought of or had ever seen before. Stopping the puck with a blocker glove, without a stick, for instance. He was probably doing that for 7-8 years as the top goalie in Europe, but was the first to do it here in the NHL. Other goalies do it all the time now, especially Biron and Roloson - wonder why that is? The two-pad stack save is a trademark, though I don't see him do it much anymore. The snow angel used to be pretty much Dom's alone, but you see it, along with attempts at the death roll save, all over the league now. A lot of what Dom alone used to do, other goalies emulated.

In some ways, Hasek changed the game, or so the pundits say. How many times have you heard an announcer proclaim a crazy-looking save "Hasekian"? Anyway, he's here, he's a Red Wing, and his mission is to win games. No doubt about that. I hope Dom kicks @** tonight, and ever after.

Go get 'em, Dom.

[sixer 37]

Dom is the man! Don't compare Ozzie to him, Ozzie is an excellent backup, Dom is the man when it's Primetime.

[interminded 1]

Salo placed with guys who had MUCH better stats. That means that despite the fact he faced fewer shots and gave up more goals than those guys, he was considered by the voting group to be at the same level as those guys. He clearly was not.

And this sngle event of circumstances gives him the label "overrated" ?

that's too weak of an argument, IMO.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Are you kidding me? No no no, you've got to be joking. Aparently the few years since Roy retired we've completely forgotten what it's like to have a cocky, flair-filled, goalie doing the statue of liberty when he robes one of our players. I guarantee you his psychological presence was one of the main factors his teams won cups. He just made the opposition hate him (see "can't hear you with my cup rings in my ears" comments). Nothing was more satisfying than seeing Roy f-up with his cockyness to let in a goal in that game 6 against us. That burst the bubble on his intimidation and we stomped him the next game. Not a coincidence. Certainly the embellishment is going to piss off a player.

No, you missed my point. The reason Roy could get into players heads wasn't because he'd throw his glove up unnecessarily. It was simply because he was that good. He was the best goaltender of his era. His flair did not do any psychological damage, it may have added insult to injury, but that isn't what made him intimidating. As I said before, as a player you know how hard it was for the goalie to make the save. If you hit him in the glove, and then he throws it up, you know he didn't make the save. The fact that he was cocky with his antics does not intimidate you. It may upset you, but the next time you get a chance, it doesn't make you think twice about shooting glove side. Conversely, if he does make a huge glove save, and doesn't throw the glove up, it can make you think twice about shooting glove side.

[eva unit zero 271]

And this sngle event of circumstances gives him the label "overrated" ?

that's too weak of an argument, IMO.

It's called an example. He wasn't the 7th best goalie that season, or any other. And more importantly, that season he wasn't even CLOSE. Some goalies get Vezina votes when their stats don't warrant it...some don't get Vezina votes when they DO have the stats.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Dom has the biggest 5 hole in hockey today. 2 of Chicago's 5 goals were 5 hole goals. In the last game his 5 hole was also a worry, since I remember at least one goal being between the pads.

It seriously is Ozzie's time.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

No, you missed my point. The reason Roy could get into players heads wasn't because he'd throw his glove up unnecessarily. It was simply because he was that good. He was the best goaltender of his era. His flair did not do any psychological damage, it may have added insult to injury, but that isn't what made him intimidating. As I said before, as a player you know how hard it was for the goalie to make the save. If you hit him in the glove, and then he throws it up, you know he didn't make the save. The fact that he was cocky with his antics does not intimidate you. It may upset you, but the next time you get a chance, it doesn't make you think twice about shooting glove side. Conversely, if he does make a huge glove save, and doesn't throw the glove up, it can make you think twice about shooting glove side.

It's a fast moving game, don't think the player always knows where his shot went. Plus, there are 5 other guys on the ice at the same time that probably aren't certain to the accuracy of the shot, as well as a bench full of teammates that don't necessarily know how hard or easy the save was. Sure, if it's a routine shot and a goalie acts a bit while saving it, the other team will know, but a good save can be made great with a little showmanship. That being said, I don't think Roy is the best goalie of our time (I think you could make a case for both Hasek and Broduer as being better). Roy played on some fantastic teams, but he always really knew how to intimidate. He got under people's skin, just like Holmstrom or Maltby, except Roy wasn't humble or muted off the ice. Psychologically it makes a difference. I mean, think about how different things might have been if Roy was quite and humble. Who knows, Montreal might have never even traded him (after all, his coach hating him is what caused the problems), he might have retired with two cup wins and around 400 wins.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

It's a fast moving game, don't think the player always knows where his shot went. Plus, there are 5 other guys on the ice at the same time that probably aren't certain to the accuracy of the shot, as well as a bench full of teammates that don't necessarily know how hard or easy the save was. Sure, if it's a routine shot and a goalie acts a bit while saving it, the other team will know, but a good save can be made great with a little showmanship. That being said, I don't think Roy is the best goalie of our time (I think you could make a case for both Hasek and Broduer as being better). Roy played on some fantastic teams, but he always really knew how to intimidate. He got under people's skin, just like Holmstrom or Maltby, except Roy wasn't humble or muted off the ice. Psychologically it makes a difference. I mean, think about how different things might have been if Roy was quite and humble. Who knows, Montreal might have never even traded him (after all, his coach hating him is what caused the problems), he might have retired with two cup wins and around 400 wins.

It is a fast moving game. But clearly you haven't played it. Players know when a save was huge, or routine. Even if a player doesn't see where the shot went, someone else did, and there is always communication.

Roy was the best goaltender of his era, I would place Marty in a different era as his prime started at the end of Roy's career. As for Hasek, he was a great goaltender (he isn't half of what he was now), if you look at stats they are both quite similar. However, Roy not only won more Cups, he took his team to more Cup Finals than Hasek. We could sit here and argue all day about who has more hardware, but I gaurantee that Hasek would trade all of his Vezina's for one more Cup.

[2probert4 8]

Clearly, Hasek will retire and the Wings will sign Curtis Joseph, going on to win the Cup on karma alone.

No Grasshopper, its Tim Cheveldae and Bob Essensa that will lead us to the promised land