New Scoring Leader

[eva unit zero 271]

Umm...so projections only work when they're in your favor? OK, I get the rules now EVA. Its ok for you to say he's going to get 130 pts when that's his projection, but when the new projection is going downard there are exceptions????

No; you were just acting like 'at the ten game mark the projection looked like this, well now we're 50 games in and that's not the case' when if Zetterberg scores six points over the next three games (which is not unrealistic) he's right back on pace for 130 points.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out to you that I wasn't saying 'Z is in the lead now, he's gonna wi nthe Art Ross' and that any statement I made about Z's finish was prefaced with an 'if he keeps this up' or something of the sort. That's the key; I may use projections, but I don't present them as if they are guaranteed to be the actual result.

[Offsides 21]

Let's face it guys: Zetterberg is not going to win the scoring title. Stop being homers and live with that fact. With guys like Vinny and Crosby be riding behind him, their bound to take the lead and hold it, especially considering Tampa and Pittsburgh (Tampa especially) play more of an offensive style of hockey. Neither team has a decent goaltender, so they have to score goals to win.

I love Zetterberg, but he's playing on a more strict defensive team, and there are way too many other players in the league that are just as good or better. It's a hard competition for him.

But... I firmly believe Zetterberg will win the Selke Trophy. And he should, because no player in the league is as good a two-way threat as he is.

Hey, we're not homers until he doesn't win it and we say they should have given it to him anyway. At this point it's anybody's game and he is at the top. :!:

[OsGOD 3]

Why do we even care about the little battles (daily scoring leader) when the war is won (overall undisputed point leader) in mid April?

It can flip flop back and forth all season long...

Edited November 16, 2007 by OsGOD

[Earthhuman 8]

Give it up GS&T... nobody agrees with you.

Datsyuk is doing great.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Give it up GS&T... nobody agrees with you.

Datsyuk is doing great.

You're comment lacks any frame of reference. Dats is on pace for 77 points this year. By that, yes, he's dong just fine in comparison to most NHLers.

But when you consider that's worse than his last 2 years and all of his numbers are pretty much down it puts his numbers into a clearer perspective.

That's the hard part about having a debate with people who are intellectually beneath you. Its just so hard for you to catch up to me in the first place. Don't worry, I don't hold it against you.

PS: I just noticed it says you're from Akron. Well, that explains alot. MEDINA RULES! AKRON SUCKS!

Edited November 16, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[jagr68 0]

Whoever said that Vinny isn't a good defensive player, or a terrible one, whatever was said, makes me wonder how many games they watch.

It's no secret he used to be a bad defensive player, and got into it with Torts and was benched, just like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin in years past.

Right now, Lecavalier is the complete package. I'm saying that as probably the biggest Crosby fan around. Vinny does it all. He is certainly not a bad defensive player. The first goal he scored was because he forechecked and stole the puck. He plays the penalty kill. Not just to get a shorty, but if you actually watch him, he will go down and attempt to block shots from time to time. How many top forwards do that? I have seen Crosby do that, but not as often. I love Jagr, but have never seen him do that. I used to live in PA, saw many Pens games on TV and live, so I know Mario used to. Never saw Wayne do it.

I watch every Lightning and Pens game. The Pens being my team, and Tampa being my girlfriends. Vinny backchecks every shift and does the little things right defensively as a offensive player.

Someone made a comment about the pass St. Louis made him. So what, any skilled player would do the same. The guy coughed up the puck, St. Louis had the puck by the boards, of course a goal scorer is going to break out of the zone and wait for a pass. What do you want him to do? Your partner has the puck, you see the two D man standing, are you going to stand around to, or break out for a pass?

Right now, those two guys are the best duo in the league. I'm big fans of Zetts and Dats too, and obviously Crosby and Malkin, but right now, it's Vinny and St. Louis.

Assuming Crosby and Lecavalier do not get injured. It will be those two battling at the end for the Art Ross. As long as Cheechoo is playing bad, Thornton won't be in it. That guy can only play with talented players and can only score empty netters. San Jose isn't winning as many games as people thought (yet) so he has less chances of scoring empty netters. Zetterberg will be in it too. I can see him in the top 5. Anything can happen. Don't be surprised if Vinny does have another 5pt night. Anyone who watched that game will probably agree he simply dominated.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The Pens DO NOT play an offensive style of game (Tampa does). The Pens would like to play and try to play a defensive style game, but they don't really play that either.

It's hard to give them the credit for playing a defensive style, though. Their goaltending sucks (Fleury is overated, and Sabourin is an ok backup, but not a starter), and most of their better defenseman are all offensive minded. I just lean more towards them playing offensivily, since they give up a lot of goals.

Edit: In terms of Zetterberg being the best, or one of the best two-way players in the leauge, I would agree with that, but I have always had a bit of a problem with the way they award that trophy. It always goes to a guy that plays a great two-way way game and not the best defensive forward.

Actually, if Zetterberg wins it this year, it would likely because his offensive game has improved and it would have nothing to do with his defensive play improving.

I can definitly see that being true. Rod Brind'Amour won it last year, and if you ask me, both Pahlsson and Pandolfo (the runners up) are better defensive players than he is.

I still think Zetterberg's two-way ability should be givin some recognition. It seems like that's the one trophy he has the best shot at winning. The scoring title is a stretch, because of guys like Lecavalier and Crosby. And unless Zetterberg carries the team on his back and everyone else falls apart, he's not going to the Hart Trophy either. Crosby will probably win that award also, because right now, he and Malkin are the only ones on Pittsburgh that are scoring. He is carrying that team, in a sense.

None of this is a knock on Zetterberg, but those two awards are very tough to win. I think he has a much better chance at winning the Selke than the other two.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You're comment lacks any frame of reference. Dats is on pace for 77 points this year. By that, yes, he's dong just fine in comparison to most NHLers.

But when you consider that's worse than his last 2 years and all of his numbers are pretty much down it puts his numbers into a clearer perspective.

That's the hard part about having a debate with people who are intellectually beneath you. Its just so hard for you to catch up to me in the first place. Don't worry, I don't hold it against you.

PS: I just noticed it says you're from Akron. Well, that explains alot. MEDINA RULES! AKRON SUCKS!

um...should we bring up how many points Datsyuk was on pace for 19 games into the season last year? How about Zetterberg?

For an intellectual, you should know that "on pace for" means s***. Stastny was on pace for 164 points 8 games into the season. Minnesota was on pace to never lose a game for a while. Datsyuk could easily put up 10 points over the next 5 games - which is entirely possible - and all of a sudden hes on pace for a 96 pt season.

[toby91_ca 620]

um...should we bring up how many points Datsyuk was on pace for 19 games into the season last year? How about Zetterberg?

For an intellectual, you should know that "on pace for" means s***. Stastny was on pace for 164 points 8 games into the season. Minnesota was on pace to never lose a game for a while. Datsyuk could easily put up 10 points over the next 5 games - which is entirely possible - and all of a sudden hes on pace for a 96 pt season.

THE POINT IS THIS:

If you want to ignore what Datsyuk is on pace for, that's fine, but you shouldn't then turn around and talk about how Zetterberg is on pace for 130 points, it works both ways.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

um...should we bring up how many points Datsyuk was on pace for 19 games into the season last year? How about Zetterberg?

For an intellectual, you should know that "on pace for" means s***. Stastny was on pace for 164 points 8 games into the season. Minnesota was on pace to never lose a game for a while. Datsyuk could easily put up 10 points over the next 5 games - which is entirely possible - and all of a sudden hes on pace for a 96 pt season.

What Toby said.

PS: I didn't start this ludicrous projections argument. You're coming in at the tail end of a long debate about how Datsyuk was playing this season. I didn't need projections. I looked at his raw numbers and where he was getting his chances on the ice and it was clear to me he seemed more comfortable at center and maybe a move back to center would help facilitate some scoring for him. And since Zetterberg seems more comfortable than Datsyuk, it wouldn't hurt to move him back to the left wing on Dats line. But as soon as I brought that up the projections brigade came and gave me all this bulls*** about Dats getting 90 assists this year and Z scoring 130+ points and blah, blah. So, i'm just throwing the current projections back in their faces.

[BeeRYCE 2]

On PACE for? Are you guys actually talking about that?

Let's take a walk back to memory lane... Last season before the All Star break, as a team, we were doing great, but who was our best player? Not Zetterberg, not Datsyuk, but Cleary, and I'm talking statistically. The first half of the season Z and Dats were probably on pace for maybe 60 points each, and were each under a point per game. After the All Star break, Zetterberg had a 2 point/game average for I believe nearly 20 games before he got hurt, and Datsyuk was close to that. I'm just saying, projected stats mean diddly squawt.

Sorry, not sure how relevant this rant was to the conversation, but I saw this talk about projected stats, and "on pace for", so I thought I'd throw that out there.