GDT 11/17: Blackhawks 5, Red Wings 3

[puckloo39 5,686]

eww, a dom lover..

what kind of person are you?

an intelligent and reasonable one.

see my post and the numbers which indicate that people are over-reacting.

[EuroTwinLove40 0]

I won't be posting on here anymore because in like 5 minutes I'm going to go take a toaster bath.

I don't think you should put a toaster in the bathtub. Electrocution is never a good thing haha.

[toby91_ca 620]

nah, Flip, it's over, we are done for.

Just for fun I went to nhl.com to see who's in the doghouse with Dom, with sub .900 s%

Leading the bottom 10: Brodeur .892; a little closer to Dom's neighborhood, Khabibulin @ .888, and next door neighbor in Hell? None other than Miika Kiprusoff with a sparkling .887.

Fire them all, I say! Demote Brodeur, put Kipper on waivers.

None of the above have "lost it" -- BTW, Brodie's lost 10 games, Khabi 6, and Kipper 8. Dom's lost 4, and didn't do it alone any more than the above mentioned crappy goalies did.

just sayin...

Yes, other goalies are struggling as well....it doesn't make Hasek's struggles any less. Also, none of them have a s% as bad as Dom.

We can hope that he'll turn it around, but he'll be 43 in a couple months....it is entirely possible that he just won't be able to turn it around.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Nobody is saying to dump Hasek. You make him the back-up, essentially switching roles with Osgood. If Osgood gets hurt, Hasek steps in. Just reverse how it is now.

not to quibble Red, but lots of fans here are saying dump him, they're just using more... um, colorful language to suggest that. I don't have a problem with Ozzie starting, especially if the team has decided, even if it's subconsciously, to play better in front of him.

It's a mental thing happening here, and it's not just Dom who's got the problem, I think.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Again, numbers don't tell the story. You have to look at the goals that Dom is giving up. To be honest, they aren't stellar chances. A starting goaltender in the NHL needs to stop weak breakway shots like the 'Hawks put on Hasek tonight.

And, like I keep saying, it's not just one game. It's a series of them like this. Put Ozzie in, let Hasek back-up for about a month, work him hard in practice and see what happens. It's not the end of the world if Chris Osgood is our starting goalie. My goodness, he's won a Stanley Cup. He's an elite netminder.

Edited November 18, 2007 by RedWingsFanatic

[Flip-check 6]

The only positive out of this game was it being a sellout.

The Wings SHOULD of won this game. The game was in their hands and they let it slip away. And yes Hasek is and should take most of the blame.

Really? That's great, I thought of grabbing some last minute tix this morning myself.

Even though I'll be there 11/27 vs the Flames, it's been a while since October 3rd.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

not to quibble Red, but lots of fans here are saying dump him, they're just using more... um, colorful language to suggest that. I don't have a problem with Ozzie starting, especially if the team has decided, even if it's subconsciously, to play better in front of him.

It's a mental thing happening here, and it's not just Dom who's got the problem, I think.

Yeah, I hear you. Anybody that wants to dump Dom is silly, in my opinion. First of all, it will never happen. And secondly, it shouldn't. I feel like a broken record tonight, but he needs to have the pressure off of him for a while and given some time to find his game again. We have the best back-up in the league, in Chris Osgood, that can step in and do the job for the time being.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Yes, other goalies are struggling as well....it doesn't make Hasek's struggles any less. Also, none of them have a s% as bad as Dom.

We can hope that he'll turn it around, but he'll be 43 in a couple months....it is entirely possible that he just won't be able to turn it around.

anything's possible, Toby, I agree. I can't see Dom staying where he is, however, anymore than I can see Brodeur or Kiprusoff staying in the bottom ten. The difference could be the age, although Hasek isn't exactly a normal 42 year old specimen.

Again, we go with Ozzie and Howard, and hope that Ozzie doesn't get injured? We can't keep all three goalies on the roster, can we?

[TSD 10]

Bottom line is your PP can't give up 4 breakaways on the PP, was hasek off on those goals tonight? Maybe. Would Osgood have stopped them? Maybe. But would osgood stop 3 out of 4 breakawaysevery time 4 breakaways resulted on the PP every time, probably not. in more than one instance that 4 breaks are let up on the PP would hasek go 1-4? probably not, your judging one instance of a record against 4 breakaways on a goalie. Regardless of whether they were good shots bad shots, they were the shots that went in. Hell khabbi played stellar tonight, you should visit the hawk boards any time we lose, said goalie has 3-4 threads started about why we should trade them. Yet blame never seems to fall on the players that let the situation for the goal happen to begin with.

[toby91_ca 620]

anything's possible, Toby, I agree. I can't see Dom staying where he is, however, anymore than I can see Brodeur or Kiprusoff staying in the bottom ten. The difference could be the age, although Hasek isn't exactly a normal 42 year old specimen.

Again, we go with Ozzie and Howard, and hope that Ozzie doesn't get injured? We can't keep all three goalies on the roster, can we?

Yeah, I agree, but age will catch up to him at some point, that is a guarantee. The question is when....and I think everyone is hoping that it isn't this year.

They can keep all 3 on the roster as long as there is room, I doubt they would want to do that. I honestly don't know what they should do right now. My suggestion would be to play the hot hand in Osgood as much as possible. If that means that Dom doesn't play much at all, then so be it.

Bottom line is your PP can't give up 4 breakaways on the PP, was hasek off on those goals tonight? Maybe. Would Osgood have stopped them? Maybe. But would osgood stop 3 out of 4 breakawaysevery time 4 breakaways resulted on the PP every time, probably not. in more than one instance that 4 breaks are let up on the PP would hasek go 1-4? probably not, your judging one instance of a record against 4 breakaways on a goalie. Regardless of whether they were good shots bad shots, they were the shots that went in. Hell khabbi played stellar tonight, you should visit the hawk boards any time we lose, said goalie has 3-4 threads started about why we should trade them. Yet blame never seems to fall on the players that let the situation for the goal happen to begin with.

I think most posters' concerns go well beyond this one game.

[SliderJeff 11]

Well, that was fun. That played out about exactly as I assumed it would. Let's take it from the top:

Hasek played about as poorly as I've ever seen him play. This is no surprise, as this season has arguably been his worst showing in his Vezina-era timeframe. He gets paid to stop pucks. Not a couple. Not most. ALL. Yes, he is allowed to let some in, as he is not infallible. But he's PAID to stop them all. He's not coming close. Yes, he's got some company when it comes to sucking it up from a percentage standpoint. That being said, I've watched several games with Brodeur and Kiprusoff this season and it's NOT the goalie that's losing games for those teams. They can't score to save their lives. Not exactly the Wings problem.

Secondly, the power play continues to suck the suck out of "suck". Why is that? Well, I'll tell you why. Because we employ the same PP strategy we have since the early Bowman era. Amazingly enough, in the past 13-15 years, several teams have picked up on this strategy and have formulated defenses to battle it. It's Mike Babcock's (and his host of assistants and yes-men) job to adjust to the things the other team puts on the ice. Babcock suffers from the same affliction Dave Lewis and a host of others did prior to Bowman... hell, even Bowman suffered it some times. The affliction? Inability to adjust. It's what happened to Tressel (GO BUCKS) and OSU last weekend and it cost them a BCS championship bid. Babcock does this time and again.

Third, the defense sucked today. Period. Nuff said.

Fourth, Khabi played like he has every game against the Wings... good enough to keep his team in it even when they didn't deserve to be from an on-paper standpoint.

Fifth, the Hawks have superior confidence. They will not be intimidated by the Wings. They've come from behind all 4 games, IIRC. They have faith that the Wings will self-destruct in some way, regardless of how many shots they put on the Wings' netminder.

Sixth, 4 scoring chances on 6 shots to start the game for the Hawks. Yikes.

I have no idea what to expect in tomorrow's game. I'm frankly so ticked off I'm considering not watching so that I don't spoil my early Turkey Day vacation any more than I already have. I'm sure I'll end up watching, but damn if my stomach isn't feeling sour already.

If it WERE a reality to send Hasek down, I honestly believe that would be a good idea. At the very least, it would shut the Hasek homers up as far as their argument that not seeing enough shots is why he is slurping at the toilet bowl.

Anyway. At least one of my teams one today. Sorry to all the Wolverine fans. It'll be weird not screaming against Lloyd Carr anymore. He was a great coach, no matter how you look at it. Shame to see Hart and Henne so banged up too... even though I can say that deep down I was glad they were less than 100%, bastich that I am.

GO WINGS! Break the slump!

Later,

Jeff in Houston

[puckloo39 5,686]

Yeah, I agree, but age will catch up to him at some point, that is a guarantee. The question is when....and I think everyone is hoping that it isn't this year.

They can keep all 3 on the roster as long as there is room, I doubt they would want to do that. I honestly don't know what they should do right now. My suggestion would be to play the hot hand in Osgood as much as possible. If that means that Dom doesn't play much at all, then so be it.

I think most posters' concerns go well beyond this one game.

if it's age, and he's really lost it, Dom will be the first to say so. I hope it's not this year either. He's no quitter, though, so I won't be surprised to see him come back.

[SliderJeff 11]

double post

Edited November 18, 2007 by SliderJeff

[Guest MrSandMan]

we'll be fine. dom will shake it off and wings will excel.

[wingnut40 176]

I don't think you should put a toaster in the bathtub. Electrocution is never a good thing haha.

It's a hell of a lot better than watching my beloved Red Wings suffer continuously.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Tough loss tonight. The Red Wings clearly were the better team and deserved to win, but they didn't. It's bound to happen over 82 games. Every break, bounce, and fluke play went Chicago's way tonight. It just seems worse because of the previous three losses to the Blackhawks this season. Nice part about it is that bad taste can go away quickly with a good effort tomorrow in Columbus.

There is absoutely no reason to go overboard with a lousy, three-game slump in NOVEMBER. The over-reaction on here is rather pathetic. Do the Red Wings have room to improve? Of course. They have five months to get it right before the games become important. It's a very long season. Losing streaks are going to happen, even to the Red Wings. Giving up on the team, calling for trades, or suggesting that the Red Wings are in big trouble is irrational, and quite frankly, uncalled for. I hate losing just as much as anyone else, but you take the good with the bad. It's part of being a fan. In the realm of perspective, this mini-slump will seem very insignificant in April and May.

Lastly, regarding the whole Dom situation, I have mixed feelings. The extreme calls for Hasek to retire, or be sent to Grand Rapids are absurd. It is very evident that Dom has had a very subpar start to the season, and is nowhere near the form we expect from him, or what he expects from himself. Calling Dom's re-signing a mistake after ten games is very pre-mature. Honestly, I have no clue if Dom will turn it around, or if he truly is "washed-up." However, I believe we owe Dom more of a chance than just ten starts to judge what he has left in the tank. Regardless of the need for people to have a scapegoat, those goals tonight were not Dom's fault. The defensive coverage in the past three games has been awful.

I have no problem with Ozzie taking over the starting role since he has earned it, and is right now, the better goalie by far. I am torn though about this move because if Dom isn't playing, any chance of him returning to a high level for the playoffs is pretty much gone. Dom needs to play if the Red Wings are going to find out if he can make another run at the Cup, or not. If Dom isn't physically capable of doing it, we know Ozzie will be there. Better to lose games in November than late in the season, when momentum is of the upmost importance.

It's not the end of the world, nor time to panic. The Red Wings will be fine. Looking forward to a win in Columbus tomorrow night!

Edited November 18, 2007 by GoWings1905

[puckloo39 5,686]

Tough loss tonight. The Red Wings clearly were the better team and deserved to win, but they didn't. It's bound to happen over 82 games. Every break, bounce, and fluke play went Chicago's way tonight. It just seems worse because of the previous three losses to the Blackhawks this season. Nice part about it is that bad taste can go away quickly with a good effort tomorrow in Columbus.

There is absoutely no reason to go overboard with a lousy, three-game slump in NOVEMBER. The over-reaction on here is rather pathetic. Do the Red Wings have room to improve? Of course. They have five months to get it right before the games become important. It's a very long season. Losing streaks are going to happen, even to the Red Wings. Giving up on the team, calling for trades, or suggesting that the Red Wings are in big trouble is irrational, and quite frankly, uncalled for. I hate losing just as much as anyone else, but you take the good with the bad. It's part of being a fan. In the realm of perspective, this mini-slump will seem very insignificant in April and May.

Lastly, regarding the whole Dom situation, I have mixed feelings. The extreme calls for Hasek to retire, or be sent to Grand Rapids are absurd. It is very evident that Dom has had a very subpar start to the season, and is nowhere near the form we expect from him, or what he expects from himself. Calling Dom's re-signing a mistake after ten games is very pre-mature. Honestly, I have no clue if Dom will turn it around, or if he truly is "washed-up." However, I believe we owe Dom more of a chance than just ten starts to judge what he has left in the tank. Regardless of the need for people to have a scapegoat, those goals tonight were not Dom's fault. The defensive coverage in the past three games has been awful.

It's not the end of the world, or time to panic. The Red Wings will be fine. Looking forward to a win in Columbus tomorrow night!

this might be the most intelligent post I've seen in quite some time.

As for tomorrow, I bet a bunch of us don't get to see it, the game is on the List o' Death on the new NHL Network, so Center Ice viewers in this neck of the woods will have the game stolen from us.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

That was a nice post from Jeff. I agree with almost all of it, Ohio State love notwithstanding (Go Spartans), especially the stuff about Babcock and the coaching staff's inability to adjust. It's been obvious in the past three games against Chicago and it was evident again tonight. The Blackhawks have the Red Wings figured out, especially on the power play, and they know that pressuring them is the way to go. They did a superb job of that tonight. They were also fantastic in getting down and blocking shots and taking away shooting lanes.

I hate to bring this up, but it's a possibility that we might face Chicago in the first-round of the playoffs. And, right now, that's just too much to think about.

Edited November 18, 2007 by RedWingsFanatic

[Offsides 21]

Osgood is NOT an effing backup. He has taken that ROLE here because he wants to play on the team and loves Detroit. Saying he's the best backup in the league is true becuase he's technically been backing up...but he's NOT a backup goaltender...or a career backup.

He's playing like the starter...he is the starter. You people must be blind. He would be a starter anywhere but here, but has been giving Hasek the reins...well...Hasek right now does not deserve to be starter.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean about Hasek here...but if I hear someone suggest that Ozzie should just sit in his 'backup' role one more time I will scream. He's NOT a backup...we have 2 starters...Ozzie just plays less....and that should be rectified if Dom's not playing as good as he once was, and Ozzie's having a career season.

This is simple math.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Offsides

[BlueMonk 102]

Osgood has to start from this point forward. It doesn't matter whether Hasek will rebound or not, right now, he's simply not playing well enough to start. The Wings are leaving valuable points on the table while their goaltender is trying to work himself into form, something he may or may not be able to do. It doesn't matter that 8 years ago, Hasek was light years better than Chris Osgood. It's 2007 and Osgood is playing great and Dom looks very slow and uncomfortable out there.

The defensive breakdowns are horrendous. Rafalski in particular was brutal in his own end tonight. He's been chipping in the points, but as for being a big defensive upgrade from Schneider, well....

[puckloo39 5,686]

AP report on the game

Sharp gave Chicago the lead with 6:52 left with the Blackhawks' third short-handed goal of the game. Nicklas Lidstrom couldn't keep the puck in at the blue line and then fell, giving Sharp a breakaway the other way. He fought off Nicklas Kronwall [me: not that hard to do, I saw, once I watched the DVR'd game] and out (sic: put) the puck past Dominik Hasek.

After picking up the puck from a faceoff in his own zone, Bourque carried it into the neutral zone and banked it off the boards. He then beat Rafalski to the puck to give himself a breakaway, and then beat Hasek with a wrist shot.

With D like this, who needs enemies? j/k I am sure Dom is very upset with himself, but he probably isn't the only one in the locker room who knows they can do better.

The Wings have (literally or figuratively) not fallen on their faces in front of Ozzie, yet. Bench Dom, and hopefully, the dream season will continue, as if he is the only reason they lost a game. Stranger things have happened. Much stranger.

Edited November 18, 2007 by puckloo39

[Sgt. Angry 23]

What a crap sports day this turned out to be. The only one who played worse than Dom tonight was Angie Mentink, who absolutely butchered the post game show. Did they ever show any comments from Babcock? I didn't hear any, but he probably would have sounded ike Lloyd Carr anyway.

[VM1138 1,921]

Before people freak out too much (is it too late?) let's not forget that EVERY season the Wings have a really terrible month or two. It's nothing new. The Wings still stay atop the standings. I'm not too concerned witha nything except Hasek's play.

[Grittzkey 1]

Ill give Hasek another chance tommorow. If he redeems himself great, If he flops, ill be pissed if Babs does nothing about it.

You need to take drake out right now, its evident that with the cage he dosnt do what he is good at to full effect. Let Downey or Ellis earn some stripes in the mean time.

Tommorow's game will be a redemption game for alot of folks, cuz after that i have a feeling Babs is going to do some switching of the line ups and some folks might be in for a world of surprise.

[TSD 10]

I hate to bring this up, but it's a possibility that we might face Chicago in the first-round of the playoffs. And, right now, that's just too much to think about.

They were talking about this in hawks post game, detroit just knowing that the hawks can and have taken 4 in a row away from detroit could weigh on the teams mind, in a playoff meeting. Also, that as of now from a playoff stand point the hawks have nothing to lose, whereas detroit has been a top contender since the late 90's. Making the playoffs is success enough at this point for the hawks, so basically a playoff meeting between chicago and detorit, its detroits series to lose.