Euro-Problems

[Grittzkey 1]

Blame the lockout..

Blame the lack of familiarty with the players..

Blame the evolution of hockey..

Blame the lack of Blue Collor Rough Neck Scoring Threats..People who can mash and score..

Growing up in muskegon, The muskegon fury got me hooked into hockey, sure it wasnt the best form.. but it was great. because there was goals scored and knuckle imprints exchanged..it was beutiful..

cant blame the euros.

[vangvace 12]

Euros... maybe a little but for all of the talent on the roster the players have the personality of earwax.

Drake, Downey, and Cleary might be exceptions, but how long are the Ds going to be here?

[Barrie 900]

The dull schedule and the Salary Cap has had a negative effect here in Hockeytown too.

I'm enjoying the winning, but sometimes winning isn't everything, if you know what I mean. You need a little flash and flair to go along with it when trying to sell tickets. The teams we had from 1995-2006 had it all when it came to entertainment (winning, flash, flair). I don't think we'll ever see that again, or for a very long time. Probably prior to 95-06 it was the 1950's with Sawchuk, Howe, Lindsay, Kelly, Abel, etc..

Edited December 13, 2007 by Barrie

[imisssergei 0]

The dull schedule and the Salary Cap has had a negative effect here in Hockeytown too.

I'm enjoying the winning, but sometimes winning isn't everything, if you know what I mean. You need a little flash and flair to go along with it when trying to sell tickets. The teams we had from 1995-2006 had it all when it came to entertainment (winning, flash, flair). I don't think we'll ever see that again, or for a very long time. Probably prior to 95-06 it was the 1950's with Sawchuk, Howe, Lindsay, Kelly, Abel, etc..

Teams that NEED to play in Detroit....

Toronto

Boston

NYR

Montreal

Call me silly, but I remember growing up watching the epic Toronto - Detroit games. In those days Detroit was awful, but it was always a high intensity game against the Leafs. I miss watching those type of games. The league has tried to allow the weaker teams ride the coattails of the Wings success. It just isn't fair to us Wings fans to have to see Columbus more times in one season than we will see the Leafs in 5 seasons.

[Barrie 900]

Call me silly, but I remember growing up watching the epic Toronto - Detroit games. In those days Detroit was awful, but it was always a high intensity game against the Leafs. I miss watching those type of games. The league has tried to allow the weaker teams ride the coattails of the Wings success. It just isn't fair to us Wings fans to have to see Columbus more times in one season than we will see the Leafs in 5 seasons.

Even when the Wings-Avs rivarly was in full force, the games against the Leafs were as much fun as the ones against the Avs.

[T.Low 1,011]

If only we had a highly talented, homegrown star player who played an exciting game. Maybe someone like Brian Rafalski.

Oh, i do belive that he just delivered the knock out punch :!:

[Guest jaytan]

Yeah, well we need a few more. Not just for the fan's sake but because it's simply impossible to win in the NHL with such a European-dominant lineup. I know we're doing great now (as we always are during the regular season), but it'll be a lot tougher for the Wings to win the Cup than it will be for the other top teams in the league.

Blame the lack of Blue Collor Rough Neck Scoring Threats..People who can mash and score..

Growing up in muskegon, The muskegon fury got me hooked into hockey, sure it wasnt the best form.. but it was great. because there was goals scored and knuckle imprints exchanged..it was beutiful..

cant blame the euros.

But how many European-trained players play that brand of hockey?

[sibiriak 84]

Did you have to post this?

If Holland had a choice and had to replace them ...

Pronger/Niedermayer, Staal, Crosby, Smyth, Brodeur,Sam Gagner, Kevin Bieksa.

I'm sorry, couldnt help myself

And where exactly would the Wings have got the 5 high first round picks to draft all these players?

The whole point of the post that you ridiculed was that without drafting undiscovered European jems in the late rounds, the Wings would have been competing with LA and Phoenix for the last place right now.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

And where exactly would the Wings have got the 5 high first round picks to draft all these players?

The whole point of the post that you ridiculed was that without drafting undiscovered European jems in the late rounds, the Wings would have been competing with LA and Phoenix for the last place right now.

He said the wings would suck without those players. I had no idea he was eluding to the draft. I know the Wings have one of the best draft teams in the NHL.

[Kp-Wings 3]

But how many European-trained players play that brand of hockey?

Hardly any. Of course you have exceptions (oh how I wish Vladdy was still playing), but the majority all play the same way: soft. Sorry to all who will accuse that of being a Grapes-esque comment, but it's true. When do you really see European trained players going out of their way to throw a hit or start a fight? Hardly ever, at least from what I see. There are exceptions, like Vladdy and Andrei Nazarov (fight fans like myself remember Nazarov from his days in Boston), but not very many.

I tend to notice that North American trained Europeans play more physical. It's just the contrast in style. North American hockey is more of a physical, grinding game, while European hockey is a skilled, stickhandling, not at all physical style of game.

This team really does need more North Americans. It's the plain truth. I don't see why there can't be a few more, mainly physical players, considering you have guys like Samuelsson and Franzen on the team, who are both nothing more than streaky depth scorers who, in my opinion, aren't pulling their weight. Don't tell me that would decrease the scoring if we lost those two either, because they both have a whopping combined total of 6 goals between them. Hudler has more goals than both Samuelsson and Franzen combined, and he get's far less ice time. Especially in Samuelsson's case, who get's so much ice time, it's not even funny. He doesn't deserve any of what he get's at all.

I know I'm probably going to get shot for saying that about Franzen, since everyone loves him on this forum for some reason (I have no idea why), but I really don't like the guy. For his size, he should be a lot more physical. Plus, he's the most god-awful faceoff man I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe center is his natural postion. He lost almost every faceoff last night.

...and to make one more stab here, the reasons cited in the past of not having an enforcer because "you can't role 4 lines" is more extinct than a dinosaur now. The ZDH line is doubleshifted almost the entire game. If Holland ever uses that excuse again, especially if Downey is lost on waivers or what not, I'm going to go beserk. It's such a lame reason, since every other playoff calibre team seems to manage just fine with 2-3 enforcers in their lineup (Anaheim had about 5 or more last season, and they won the Cup with that many).

The Wings are an entertaining team in some aspects. But, I think a more physical team with more hits and fights, and players with actual personality's and not that of a wooden board, would make the Wings more interesting to a certain group of fans, which could put asses in the seats again. I'm only speculating, since there is still the ticket price issue to deal with...

Edited December 15, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[eva unit zero 271]

I know I'm probably going to get shot for saying that about Franzen, since everyone loves him on this forum for some reason (I have no idea why), but I really don't like the guy. For his size, he should be a lot more physical. Plus, he's the most god-awful faceoff man I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe center is his natural postion. He lost almost every faceoff last night.

You shouldn't believe that, because it's not true. He was converted to center in Sweden because he played an excellent two-way game, but he is a natural winger and plays better on the wing.

...and to make one more stab here, the reasons cited in the past of not having an enforcer because "you can't role 4 lines" is more extinct than a dinosaur now. The ZDH line is doubleshifted almost the entire game. If Holland ever uses that excuse again, especially if Downey is lost on waivers or what not, I'm going to go beserk. It's such a lame reason, since every other playoff calibre team seems to manage just fine with 2-3 enforcers in their lineup (Anaheim had about 5 or more last season, and they won the Cup with that many).

The Wings are an entertaining team in some aspects. But, I think a more physical team with more hits and fights, and players with actual personality's and not that of a wooden board, would make the Wings more interesting to a certain group of fans, which could put asses in the seats again. I'm only speculating, since there is still the ticket price issue to deal with...

The Wings should determine the makeup of their team with one goal; to win the Cup. The Maple Leafs are a good example of a team more concerned with building the team to put butts in seats rather than names on the Cup. Do you want the Wings to become the Leafs?

[Kp-Wings 3]

nevermind

Edited December 15, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[eva unit zero 271]

While I'll agree with KP-Wings that the Red Wings can use a few N.American "character" types - however I'm certain the Maple Leaf fans would love to have our squad, & be in the position we're in.

My point was that the Wings don't tend to make huge trades or tack on the big name free agent the past few years; Rafalski notwithstanding, as he was a replacement for an equally pricey player that left. The Maple Leafs, OTOH, have been making big splash moves that haven't panned out nearly as well as expected. Pavel Kubina was supposed to be on the verge of challenging for the Norris when Toronto signed him...now he's just ridiculed. Jason Blake was a 40 goal scorer and was supposed to be the scorer Sundin has desperately lacked all these years. Eric Lindros was supposed to find his dominant form now that he had come home to Toronto. Vesa Toskala was supposed to provide the elite level goaltending Toronto hasn't had. Each of those acquisitions hyped up the team and the fans that this was the year....and yet, the Leafs are still terrible.Meanwhile, the Wings have been more concerned with maintaining the core and developing chemistry and their young players, while adding affordable accessory players, and this proven approach has made Ken Holland a target of comments that are effectively 'OMG LOLZ why did Kenny not trade <Red Wings core player> for <more expensive NHL star who was just traded>?' A good example is the McDonald trade. People were asking 'Couldn't Kenny have put together a better package than Weight plus mediocre prospects?' The answer is yes, probably...but then you have Burke dealing with the Wings, his chief rival, rather than the Blues, who are a division rival of the Wings. The Wings probably have to give up Filppula and Kindl, or something similar, to get McDonald. Would you make that trade?

[eva unit zero 271]

I agree with your point you were making with KP-Wings; Holland is doing the right thing by building the team from within vs with what the Leafs are doing (signing high profile players) which is a primary reason that they'll not make the playoffs again this year...Like many others here - I wish we had a few more rugged N.Americans on our team; that was more or less what I was trying to convey.

Maybe the point has been lost on you guys over the years. You can't get rugged North American players who also have skill where the Wings pick. The Wings have not been given the option of selecting power forwards or physical, skilled defensemen. This is because the Wings WIN. The Wings have still managed to pick up guys like Henrik Zetterberg, Jiri Fischer, Niklas Kronwall, Johan Franzen, Pavel Datsyuk, Valtteri Filppula and Jiri Hudler because they have good European scouts.

[Barrie 900]

Maybe the point has been lost on you guys over the years. You can't get rugged North American players who also have skill where the Wings pick. The Wings have not been given the option of selecting power forwards or physical, skilled defensemen. This is because the Wings WIN. The Wings have still managed to pick up guys like Henrik Zetterberg, Jiri Fischer, Niklas Kronwall, Johan Franzen, Pavel Datsyuk, Valtteri Filppula and Jiri Hudler because they have good European scouts.

Agreed. Mostly we get North Americans from trades, FA's, etc.. For fan interest sake, the team could use a couple more guys like Cleary, but they are hard to find.

[SweWings 45]

Maybe the point has been lost on you guys over the years. You can't get rugged North American players who also have skill where the Wings pick. The Wings have not been given the option of selecting power forwards or physical, skilled defensemen. This is because the Wings WIN. The Wings have still managed to pick up guys like Henrik Zetterberg, Jiri Fischer, Niklas Kronwall, Johan Franzen, Pavel Datsyuk, Valtteri Filppula and Jiri Hudler because they have good European scouts.

Agreed. As much as I'd love to have a "rugged North American players who also have skill" (as you call them) I'd rather Detroit wins. Not that I'd mind Detroit picking someone like that up...And next post-season Detroit might actually have the cap-space for it (a guy can dream, right?).