12/19 GDT: Red Wings 6, Kings 2

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Psst. In his last 6 games, he's 5-0-1 with a 1.78 gaa and a .913 save percentage and 1 shutout. He's coming around.

Over the last 6 games for Osgood, he too is 5-0-1, with a 1.97 gaa and a .927 save percentage.

And before I get the "Who has Dom played' argument that I know is coming from someone: Yes he played LA and Washington, who are the two worst teams in the league, but he also faced Carolina (T-2 in the East), Minnesota (T-3 in the West, T-4th in the league), and Montreal who is in the playoffs as the 6 seed in the East, 2 points out of second.

Osgood has had 5 of the 9 worst teams in the league over that span, plus Calgary, who would be in the playoffs (and would be tied with the likes of Carolina in the East).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that both our goalies are pretty goddamn good.

The second goal last night sucked, but Hasek played just fine. Absolutely no chance on the first goal, stopped a breakaway early on, and had a few other really good saves.

You can't completely ignore past history when discussing these guys. Yes, if Dom was a rookie he would be on the bench given how well Osgood has played. But he's arguably the best to ever play the game. He's more than earned the right to play through his troubles. And he's been just fine over the past six games, no matter how much people may want to say otherwise.

I just think it's funny that people are convinced that a goalie can't improve throughout the season. Osgood sucked for a year and a half before he turned it on around the midpoint of last season, and he's been great this year.

Exactly who has said that a goalie can't improve throughout the season?

I think in virtually every post about Dom's performance, I say he can still get his game together. there's plenty of time. I've also said how he's been playing better. But he's not there yet.

And again, this all started with me saying Dom made some big saves last night. But the second goal was not one he'd normally let in, and wondered if there was something technically going on. That's all.

EDIT: I don't want to get into a goalie war, which is where this is going. We'll see how both of them are playing come playoff time. If the playoffs started tomorrow, I'd definitely want it to be Ozzy. But as I said, there's plenty of season left.

Edited December 20, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Guest MrSandMan]

I think in virtually every post about Dom's performance, I say he can still get his game together. there's plenty of time. I've also said how he's been playing better. But he's not there yet.

Right, but we can also nit-pik that weak goal Ozzie let in some games back. Someone shot the puck from the blue line at Oz to prepare for a line change, I think... and it went in.

That was probably the worse goal of the year. But who cares, we still won. I don't see any point nitpicking every goal apart as long as we are winning the "W".

I'm also happy we have two solid goaltenders on this team. If playoffs started tomorrow, Dom would be in net. But if he gets injured, I'm 100% comfortable with Ozzy backing him up.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Last I checked Ozzie was was on a competitive team (Wings) for 10 seasons. While only has 1 cup to show for it... and about 3-4 playoff chokes, constantly.

While THE DOM was on a competitive team (Wings) 3 seasons. And already has 1 cup to show for it with ZERO playoff chokes.

Who is the number one? Hasek hands down... as it should be.

Was is the key word. If you want to play the "was" game than how about this......Dom won his cup when he was on a team that was more stacked than Ozzie's Cup year.

Again, I'm not interested in the past. I don't care what either goalie has done. I'm interested in what they are doing for the Wings this season, and this season Ozzie is 15-1-1 and at the top of the league in most tending categories.

Yeah, I agree Ozzie is playing better. But Dom lately has been playing better to some degree. His last 6 games he's 5-0-1 although I'd like is gaa to be better. I think what I was trying to say more than anything would be that Wings fans should support whoever is in net because you're not going to see a 75-25% ratio between the two

Agreed.

I wasn't stating anything to the contrary.

Right, but we can also nit-pik that weak goal Ozzie let in some games back. Someone shot the puck from the blue line at Oz to prepare for a line change, I think... and it went in.

That was probably the worse goal of the year. But who cares, we still won. I don't see any point nitpicking every goal apart as long as we are winning the "W".

I'm also happy we have two solid goaltenders on this team. If playoffs started tomorrow, Dom would be in net. But if he gets injured, I'm 100% comfortable with Ozzy backing him up.

You just have throw that in there, don't you? You're obviously not 100% confident with Ozzie in net based on the comments you've made in this thread. If you were, you'd have tweaked your last sentence to say, "If playoffs started tomorrow, Dom would be in net. But if he gets injured, I'm 100% comfortable with Ozzy getting the job done."

Edited December 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Packer487 3]

Exactly who has said that a goalie can't improve throughout the season?

There's an "Anti Hasek Society" or whatever on this site who seem pretty convinced that he's done. Kick him out of the Joe and bar the door. I just find it amusing considering how piss poorly their guy played for a season and a half before getting hooked up to the rejuvenation machine.

I've said all along, someone just doesn't lose it like that. Hasek was very good last season, he was very good in the playoffs, damn near won another Stanley Cup (I'm sure I'll get an argument from you on that, but it's cool...we've both got our own position on that one)...he didn't just forget how to play goal or become too old in a four month span. I'm sure his team would be the first to tell you that they hung him out on a lot of occasions (those short-handed breakaways against Chicago, wide portions of the St. Louis game, etc.)

He's going to be fine, and he's showing some definite signs of pulling out of the slump he's been in. Those numbers over the last 6 games are very good against some pretty darn good hockey teams.

It's been pretty incredible the hate that a lot of people have been spewing at Hasek. It's not even like he did anything wrong this time like come out of retirement to push Ozzie out of the starting job. He just didn't play very well at the start of the year. It happens.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

There's an "Anti Hasek Society" or whatever on this site who seem pretty convinced that he's done. Kick him out of the Joe and bar the door. I just find it amusing considering how piss poorly their guy played for a season and a half before getting hooked up to the rejuvenation machine.

I've said all along, someone just doesn't lose it like that. Hasek was very good last season, he was very good in the playoffs, damn near won another Stanley Cup (I'm sure I'll get an argument from you on that, but it's cool...we've both got our own position on that one)...he didn't just forget how to play goal or become too old in a four month span. I'm sure his team would be the first to tell you that they hung him out on a lot of occasions (those short-handed breakaways against Chicago, wide portions of the St. Louis game, etc.)

He's going to be fine, and he's showing some definite signs of pulling out of the slump he's been in. Those numbers over the last 6 games are very good against some pretty darn good hockey teams.

It's been pretty incredible the hate that a lot of people have been spewing at Hasek. It's not even like he did anything wrong this time like come out of retirement to push Ozzie out of the starting job. He just didn't play very well at the start of the year. It happens.

Those people are blind.

Those are the type of people that can't be subjective and aren't even worth debating with because it all falls upon deaf ears. If anyone can't see the pros and cons of both Dom and Ozzie then their opinions are very skewed.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Psst. In his last 6 games, he's 5-0-1 with a 1.78 gaa and a .913 save percentage and 1 shutout. He's coming around.

Over the last 6 games for Osgood, he too is 5-0-1, with a 1.97 gaa and a .927 save percentage.

True. Going forward, I can only see things getting better for Hasek. Before one of you wags jumps in to say it could hardly get worse -- you know who you are! -- at least admit that Dom is getting his game back and that the goals he's let in are no worse than the ones Ozzie lets in. Unless you're being influenced by the name on the back of the jersey, that is. It isn't always Hasek's name on the jersey when that line of reasoning is involved.

If the past doesn't matter in terms of Dom's successes, then the past, as in his play earlier in the season, shouldn't matter. Can't have it both ways, either the past matters or it doesn't. Hockey is definitely a sport where what a player did yesterday seems to carry more weight than proven successes. Maybe that's just the way it is.

Dom and Ozzie, and most goalies I know of, live for the next game, leaving the one they just won or lost behind them. They'd have to, or else go completely crazy nit-picking and over-analyzing every shot and save. Kind of like we do.

Hopefully we see our guys with a shiny silver Stanley Cup. I don't particularly care which goalie is in net, in fact, I'd prefer both. Maybe that will happen.

There's an "Anti Hasek Society" or whatever on this site who seem pretty convinced that he's done. Kick him out of the Joe and bar the door. I just find it amusing considering how piss poorly their guy played for a season and a half before getting hooked up to the rejuvenation machine.

I've said all along, someone just doesn't lose it like that. Hasek was very good last season, he was very good in the playoffs, damn near won another Stanley Cup (I'm sure I'll get an argument from you on that, but it's cool...we've both got our own position on that one)...he didn't just forget how to play goal or become too old in a four month span. I'm sure his team would be the first to tell you that they hung him out on a lot of occasions (those short-handed breakaways against Chicago, wide portions of the St. Louis game, etc.)

He's going to be fine, and he's showing some definite signs of pulling out of the slump he's been in. Those numbers over the last 6 games are very good against some pretty darn good hockey teams.

It's been pretty incredible the hate that a lot of people have been spewing at Hasek. It's not even like he did anything "wrong" this time like come out of retirement to push Ozzie out of the starting job. He just didn't play very well at the start of the year. It happens.

wow... great post, Packer!

Those people are blind.

Those are the type of people that can't be subjective and aren't even worth debating with because it all falls upon deaf ears. If anyone can't see the pros and cons of both Dom and Ozzie then their opinions are very skewed.

Blind wasn't the word I would have used, but it will do. Thank you, Mac!

Edited December 20, 2007 by puckloo39

[Guest MrSandMan]

You just have throw that in there, don't you? You're obviously not 100% confident with Ozzie in net based on the comments you've made in this thread. If you were, you'd have tweaked your last sentence to say, "If playoffs started tomorrow, Dom would be in net. But if he gets injured, I'm 100% comfortable with Ozzy getting the job done."

Am I wrong? Did Babcock officially announce Ozzy as starting goalie? Last I knew, Hasek was our #1. I guess that's why I threw it in there.

Listen, don't attack me because you don't like Babcock's choice who starts. It's not me who decides... I'm supporting the Wings regardless who starts in net for us.

[wingslogo19 281]

Like I said before in one of my posts. On TSN last night Before the game, Babs said that Hasek would be the starter

[tazzer82 0]

Am I wrong? Did Babcock officially announce Ozzy as starting goalie? Last I knew, Hasek was our #1. I guess that's why I threw it in there.

Listen, don't attack me because you don't like Babcock's choice who starts. It's not me who decides... I'm supporting the Wings regardless who starts in net for us.

Last I saw anywhere, Babcock didn't say who is the starter. Just that the two of them will rotate games for the time being seeing how they are both playing well. You're obviously not comfortable with Oz in goal, or you wouldn't keep bringing up the "he's a playoff choker" BS over and over again. You may as well just say you're not completely or even a little comfortable with Ozzy in goal and get it over with, instead of saying that you are after you call him a playoff choker.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Last I saw anywhere, Babcock didn't say who is the starter. Just that the two of them will rotate games for the time being seeing how they are both playing well. You're obviously not comfortable with Oz in goal, or you wouldn't keep bringing up the "he's a playoff choker" BS over and over again. You may as well just say you're not completely or even a little comfortable with Ozzy in goal and get it over with, instead of saying that you are after you call him a playoff choker.

judging from your avy and signature, Tazzer, you have a definite favorite here. So do some of the rest of us. It's OK. Clearly, you don't have a problem with Dom playing whatever number and placement of games he's handed by they coachig staff. I know I don't... most of the games have been alloted to each goalie in a fashion that is fair and makes sense. I am willing to bet neither of them have a problem with the rotation.

Personally, I would love to see Oz and Dom platoon their way to a Cup, so everybody can shut up and not mar the experience by saying any of the following:

"See, Dom won us the Cup. We wouldn't have won with Ozzie the Choker in there."

or

"See, Ozzie is the reason we won the Cup. Dom would have failed us, the old fart."

As if we have any idea what could or would have happened.

OR

"See, we lost because Babs sat Dom and let Ozzie have the nets. I knew we should have played Dom!"

or

"See, we lost because Babs sat Ozzie and let Dom have the nets. I knew we should have played Ozzie!"

How about:

"Hooray, we won the Cup because all of the players did their best and contributed, including BOTH goaltenders."

[Guest MrSandMan]

Last I saw anywhere, Babcock didn't say who is the starter. Just that the two of them will rotate games for the time being seeing how they are both playing well. You're obviously not comfortable with Oz in goal, or you wouldn't keep bringing up the "he's a playoff choker" BS over and over again. You may as well just say you're not completely or even a little comfortable with Ozzy in goal and get it over with, instead of saying that you are after you call him a playoff choker.

On these boards back in 2000/2001 everyone called Ozzy the playoff choker. I didn't make up this term, I'm just using it like everyone on the boards did in 2000. I don't think Ozzy proved himself otherwise since then. Unless you want to consider his preseason games. I recall Legacy had a great preseason one year and completely choked in the playoffs as well.

I feel better with Dom in net for the playoffs (and we all should) and as an alternative, I feel great if Ozzy needs to back up Dom if he goes down.

I'd pick Ozzy over Howard this year. What other alternative do we have if Dom goes down?

Last I saw anywhere, Babcock didn't say who is the starter.

He said Hasek would be the starter.

Like I said before in one of my posts. On TSN last night Before the game, Babs said that Hasek would be the starter

Edited December 20, 2007 by MrSandMan

[tazzer82 0]

judging from your avy and signature, Tazzer, you have a definite favorite here. So do some of the rest of us. It's OK. Clearly, you don't have a problem with Dom playing whatever number and placement of games he's handed by they coachig staff. I know I don't... most of the games have been alloted to each goalie in a fashion that is fair and makes sense. I am willing to bet neither of them have a problem with the rotation.

Personally, I would love to see Oz and Dom platoon their way to a Cup, so everybody can shut up and not mar the experience by saying any of the following:

"See, Dom won us the Cup. We wouldn't have won with Ozzie the Choker in there."

or

"See, Ozzie is the reason we won the Cup. Dom would have failed us, the old fart."

As if we have any idea what could or would have happened.

OR

"See, we lost because Babs sat Dom and let Ozzie have the nets. I knew we should have played Dom!"

or

"See, we lost because Babs sat Ozzie and let Dom have the nets. I knew we should have played Ozzie!"

How about:

"Hooray, we won the Cup because all of the players did their best and contributed, including BOTH goaltenders."

You're right, I've always been a fan of Oz and will be. And again you're right, I have no problem with Dom and Oz splitting games, I'm just glad that Dom has gotten better with each game and they are both winning games for the team. I'm tired of the goalie wars myself, but when someone makes a comment like that, I'm going to give my 2 cents as well. I too just wish everyone could be happy with the way the games are being split up and stop creating goalie wars all the time. At least the majority of us don't mind the games being split and are happy with the team regardless.

[puckloo39 5,686]

You're right, I've always been a fan of Oz and will be. And again you're right, I have no problem with Dom and Oz splitting games, I'm just glad that Dom has gotten better with each game and they are both winning games for the team. I'm tired of the goalie wars myself, but when someone makes a comment like that, I'm going to give my 2 cents as well . I too just wish everyone could be happy with the way the games are being split up and stop creating goalie wars all the time. At least the majority of us don't mind the games being split and are happy with the team regardless.

Agreed. I've been a fan of the Dom for his entire career, and truly do understand how frustrating it is to see people bashing Ozzie when there's no reason for it. I feel the same way when there are unwarranted slams against Hasek. There are just a few here who feel the need to belittle the accomplishments of one goalie to try to somehow make the other goalie look better. As if that's actually effective, when all it is really is childish in my view. This could go on forever, and probably will, unless someone convinces Dom to finally retire this summer. j/k

I bolded your comment, as I too generally don't comment until someone says something completely stupid about Dom, and then I am going to say something. It's been a while since I've seen a fan base where people actively bash a player who hasn't actually done anything wrong, the way they have Dom in this forum. I have been shocked at how hateful and vicious some of the posts have been.

I'm happy to say it seems to be calming down a bit. Maybe the Christmas spirit is making everyone mellow?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Am I wrong? Did Babcock officially announce Ozzy as starting goalie? Last I knew, Hasek was our #1. I guess that's why I threw it in there.

Listen, don't attack me because you don't like Babcock's choice who starts. It's not me who decides... I'm supporting the Wings regardless who starts in net for us.

First and foremost, until you can provide me some verifiable link that quotes Babs saying Dom will be the starter come playoff time, I won't believe you.

I'm not attacking you because of Bab's choice of who starts, because I think its great that Babs is giving Dom ample opportunity to get his game up to the level that we're all accustomed to. However, just because Dom is the Dominator doesn't mean that a guy who is 15-2-1 with the best GAA in the league should be ignored either. I like the idea of splitting starts, but if the playoffs were to start right now, I would feel more comfortable with Ozzie in net. The *objective* Red Wings fans would say the same.

That being said, there is plenty of hockey left this regular season, and if Dom can continue to improve I would feel more than comfortable with him in net. Personally, I just want the guy who's playing the *best* in the beginning of April to lead this team, because it gives the Red Wings the best chance to win it all. That's all I'm concerned about.....not Ozzie nor Dom, but the Red Wings.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25