Clement: "Leafs won't get what they want for Sundin"

[Guest wingswillwincup]

just watched sportsnet and bill clement was on and he said the exact same thing i been saying here ..... toronto wont get as much as they think for mats sundin....he said that they missed the trade lottery by 1 year , teams wont give up as much as the teams that traded for smyth forsberg bertuzzi tkachuk ... considering all those players didnt return to the teams that traded for them , that being said he didnt think they couldnt get something back but nothing as the trades of last year

At least someone who works in the hockey world agrees with me lol ..... we'll see what happens

[imisssergei 0]

just watched sportsnet and bill clement was on and he said the exact same thing i been saying here ..... toronto wont get as much as they think for mats sundin....he said that they missed the trade lottery by 1 year , teams wont give up as much as the teams that traded for smyth forsberg bertuzzi tkachuk ... considering all those players didnt return to the teams that traded for them , that being said he didnt think they couldnt get something back but nothing as the trades of last year

At least someone who works in the hockey world agrees with me lol ..... we'll see what happens

Every year there is a sucker. If JFJ plays his cards right, he will get top dollar for Sundin

[Guest wingswillwincup]

sundin has a no trade clause .... the sucker might not be a team sundin would go to , a top notch team will not empty their prospects out for a rental

on a sidenote i just finished watching hardcore hockey talk radio show on the score in canada and all these callers and the host are talking about doing sundin the right thing and sending him to a contender and everyone keeps saying to do him right and send him to detroit hahaha, couldnt stop laughing

[daniel1 32]

sundin has a no trade clause .... the sucker might not be a team sundin would go to , a top notch team will not empty their prospects out for a rental

on a sidenote i just finished watching hardcore hockey talk radio show on the score in canada and all these callers and the host are talking about doing sundin the right thing and sending him to a contender and everyone keeps saying to do him right and send him to detroit hahaha, couldnt stop laughing

It DOES make sense for a lot of reasons;

A - Detroit is close to Toronto, he wouldn't have to uproot his family or move across the continent only to move back again

B- He's Swedish and so is half of Detroit's team so I'm sure he knows or is friends with at least some of them

C- Detroit is a true contender; not a 7th place team hoping to hang on to a playoff spot

D- He fits Detroit's secondary scoring needs; he won't be "THE" guy here; we have two of those already so the pressure

on him won't be as much as it was in Toronto to "do-it-all-every-night"

E- Neither he nor the Wings will want an extension/new deal as part of the trade; he can play for Toronto next year

F- We have a surplus of young, cheap defensive prospects that are NHL ready. (Meech, Quincey) with younger ones on the

way (Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Pyatt) and a solid core now too while the Leafs are in DESPERATE need of decent defence

who are also cheap due to the ridiculous contracts given to McBaby and Koughitup, er Kaberle.

Red Wings playoff PP lines...

1st Dats-Z-Homer

2nd Filpulla-Sundin-Cleary

...oh how I salivate at the mere thought...

Edited January 9, 2008 by daniel1

[Earthhuman 8]

Red Wings playoff PP lines...

1st Dats-Z-Homer

2nd Filpulla-Sundin-Cleary

...oh how I salivate at the mere thought...

Hudler doesn't fit in there anywhere? I dunno... he's kind of sold to me.

[akustyk 84]

It DOES make sense for a lot of reasons;

(...)

unfortunately, many other teams have much deeper talent pools and have

more pressure on winning something. and Fergusson(sp) is not that dumb

to not milk this cow properly.

it all goes about what Sundin want's with his clause. he's aware what Leafs

nead and may as well allow Fergusson to fetch some talent, thus waiving his

NTC. he'd then have a chance to play for some real team and contend for the

cup and eventually return to better suited Leafs. and that makes a lot sense.

[MacK_Attack 108]

A - Detroit is close to Toronto, he wouldn't have to uproot his family or move across the continent only to move back again

He doesn't have a family. He's single. No kids in school or anything like that. If he's going to be living out of a hotel for 4 months, what's the difference if he's down the road in Detroit or out on the coast in Anaheim or San Jose?

D- He fits Detroit's secondary scoring needs; he won't be "THE" guy here; we have two of those already so the pressure on him won't be as much as it was in Toronto to "do-it-all-every-night"

Sundin thrives with more pressure. The higher stakes the situation, the better he performs. Mats wants to be "the guy". He's said as much, and that when he isn't that guy anymore, he's going to retire.

F- We have a surplus of young, cheap defensive prospects that are NHL ready. (Meech, Quincey) with younger ones on the

way (Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Pyatt) and a solid core now too while the Leafs are in DESPERATE need of decent defence

who are also cheap due to the ridiculous contracts given to McBaby and Koughitup, er Kaberle.

Kaberle gets $4.25 million per year. That's a steal for how he can play and the minutes he can log. He hasn't had a great year, but he's been decent enough. Kaberle would get at least a million or two more on the open market. Thanks to inflation due to the cap going up as much as it has, even McCabe's deal isn't as bad as it used to be, even though it's a terribly restricting deal.

I still don't believe that the Wings have what it takes to land Sundin in the top-end prospect department, unless you're willing to include Kindl. I think the basic formula for a deal is a top-end prospects (Kindl) a 2008 first round pick, a young roster player with decent upside and maybe a lower end prospect or draft pick. Then, you can add conditionals on there. Maybe a 2009 1st rounder if Detroit wins the Cup or Sundin wins the Conn Smythe or a 2010 1st rounder if Sundin re-signs with Detroit. Again, that's optional and can be re-worked depending on the significance of the achievement that activates the option.

Edited January 10, 2008 by MacK_Attack

[FinRedWing 172]

He doesn't have a family. He's single. No kids in school or anything like that. If he's going to be living out of a hotel for 4 months, what's the difference if he's down the road in Detroit or out on the coast in Anaheim or San Jose?

It could be the Stanley Cup.

Mats must choose wisely,like Bourque did.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

He doesn't have a family. He's single. No kids in school or anything like that. If he's going to be living out of a hotel for 4 months, what's the difference if he's down the road in Detroit or out on the coast in Anaheim or San Jose?

Sundin thrives with more pressure. The higher stakes the situation, the better he performs. Mats wants to be "the guy". He's said as much, and that when he isn't that guy anymore, he's going to retire.

Kaberle gets $4.25 million per year. That's a steal for how he can play and the minutes he can log. He hasn't had a great year, but he's been decent enough. Kaberle would get at least a million or two more on the open market. Thanks to inflation due to the cap going up as much as it has, even McCabe's deal isn't as bad as it used to be, even though it's a terribly restricting deal.

I still don't believe that the Wings have what it takes to land Sundin in the top-end prospect department, unless you're willing to include Kindl. I think the basic formula for a deal is a top-end prospects (Kindl) a 2008 first round pick, a young roster player with decent upside and maybe a lower end prospect or draft pick. Then, you can add conditionals on there. Maybe a 2009 1st rounder if Detroit wins the Cup or Sundin wins the Conn Smythe or a 2010 1st rounder if Sundin re-signs with Detroit. Again, that's optional and can be re-worked depending on the significance of the achievement that activates the option.

are you a wings fan or leafs fan ?? or are you a leafs fan but you like the wings .. just curious

[MacK_Attack 108]

are you a wings fan or leafs fan ?? or are you a leafs fan but you like the wings .. just curious

I'm a Leafs fan who also cheers for Dallas.

[shannyfan1414 0]

I really hope that if he is moved that the leafs don't get much for him.

I think that he is a solid player and any team would be lucky to have him in their lineup. The issue is that he will probably end up a leaf next year.

I hate the reantal players. I don't think that its fair for a team to give up quality guys or high draft picks so that you can have a player for the last few months of the season. If the guy you are trading for is going to stay in that city for a couple of season then i'm all for it.

End the existence of the rental player. Thats what i say.

[Barrie 900]

This is being talked about to death on Toronto radio. This is what I was hearing all day today

Sundin doesn't want to leave Toronto. He's very happy being a Maple Leaf, and would rather stay a Leaf then try to win a Stanley Cup. If asked, he'll probably say no to a trade.

Besides I don't think ownership will trade him anyway. It doesn't matter how far back the Leafs are, they'll still try to sneak into the playoffs.

Also, this Sundin trade talk is very premature, the entire thing has been created by media and fans ONLY. Owership hasn't even been officially asked by the media about trading Matts. I have not heard a report about what the Leafs Ownership has said. Add to that, JFJ is trying to save his job, he won't trade Sundin, and I don't think owership would trust JFJ to make that deal anyway. Think about it, a GM like Holland could take advantage of the situation and rob the Leafs blind.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Also, this Sundin trade talk is very premature, the entire thing has been created by media and fans ONLY. Owership hasn't even been officially asked by the media about trading Matts. I have not heard a report about what the Leafs Ownership has said.

Peddie was asked about it and he said they've already discussed it and have had a few inquiries already about the asking price for Sundin. He never once said they would not trade Sundin.

[daniel1 32]

Kaberle gets $4.25 million per year. That's a steal for how he can play and the minutes he can log. He hasn't had a great year, but he's been decent enough. Kaberle would get at least a million or two more on the open market. Thanks to inflation due to the cap going up as much as it has, even McCabe's deal isn't as bad as it used to be, even though it's a terribly restricting deal.

JFJ? Is that you typing up a storm in the Wings forum trying to save your job, lol?

Start sendin out those up those resume's John Jr, if you think Kaberle is a "steal" at 4.25mil and McCabe's deal "isn't bad" at 7.15mil. How the Leafs can suck as bad as they do and yet be right up against the cap (1mil under) is nothing but pure idiocy in the form of Kabina for 5mil, McCabe for 7.15mil, Kaberle for 4.25, Tucker for 3mil and Blake for 4mil. That's 16.35mil this year alone for a top 3 D squad that has given up 133 goals (5th worst in the NHL) and 7mil in forwards who have contributed a whopping total of 12 goals!

That's some good shopping there JFJ... boy do I have a bridge to sell you...

By comparison, Dan Cleary makes 0.675mil and has outscored the 7 million-dollar-duo of Tucker/Blake by 3 goals.

If Ferguson shopped and spent like that at Safeway for our family groceries my Mom would have kicked him square in the nuts.

[Guest Jeremy88]

I think it's dumb to trade for a player solely to play in the playoffs...it just doesn't feel right to me, even if it is the difference that wins us the stanley cup. It's like saying, "Hey, you busted your ass all season long trying to prove you can really help us in the playoffs, but we're gonna trade for someone better who will be better than you"

[SweWings 45]

JFJ? Is that you typing up a storm in the Wings forum trying to save your job, lol?

Start sendin out those up those resume's John Jr, if you think Kaberle is a "steal" at 4.25mil and McCabe's deal "isn't bad" at 7.15mil. How the Leafs can suck as bad as they do and yet be right up against the cap (1mil under) is nothing but pure idiocy in the form of Kabina for 5mil, McCabe for 7.15mil, Kaberle for 4.25, Tucker for 3mil and Blake for 4mil. That's 16.35mil this year alone for a top 3 D squad that has given up 133 goals (5th worst in the NHL) and 7mil in forwards who have contributed a whopping total of 12 goals!

That's some good shopping there JFJ... boy do I have a bridge to sell you...

By comparison, Dan Cleary makes 0.675mil and has outscored the 7 million-dollar-duo of Tucker/Blake by 3 goals.

If Ferguson shopped and spent like that at Safeway for our family groceries my Mom would have kicked him square in the nuts.

Ah how wonderfully brutal!!

[MacK_Attack 108]

JFJ? Is that you typing up a storm in the Wings forum trying to save your job, lol?

Start sendin out those up those resume's John Jr, if you think Kaberle is a "steal" at 4.25mil and McCabe's deal "isn't bad" at 7.15mil. How the Leafs can suck as bad as they do and yet be right up against the cap (1mil under) is nothing but pure idiocy in the form of Kabina for 5mil, McCabe for 7.15mil, Kaberle for 4.25, Tucker for 3mil and Blake for 4mil. That's 16.35mil this year alone for a top 3 D squad that has given up 133 goals (5th worst in the NHL) and 7mil in forwards who have contributed a whopping total of 12 goals!

That's some good shopping there JFJ... boy do I have a bridge to sell you...

By comparison, Dan Cleary makes 0.675mil and has outscored the 7 million-dollar-duo of Tucker/Blake by 3 goals.

If Ferguson shopped and spent like that at Safeway for our family groceries my Mom would have kicked him square in the nuts.

Kaberle is a steal. There's 29 other teams that would take him for $4.25 million.

I did not say McCabe's contract is a good deal. It's just not as bad as it used to be, as $5.75 million isn't the outrageous amount that it used to be.

I never brought up Tucker or Blake because I agree those were two bad signings. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.

[MacK_Attack 108]

End the existence of the rental player. Thats what i say.

So basically, what you want is restricted free agency for an entire career.

The only way to end the era of the rental player is to put a clause in the CBA that says something to the effect that the player traded can't re-sign or be traded back to his original team for 12 months or something like that.

Although, then you have to define a rental player and put a time frame on what constitutes a trade deadline move, thereby essentially creating a new trade deadline earlier in the season for UFA players.

[12Newf 0]

thought i would throw this in there just because it has some reputable men discussing what they would ask for in return for sundin. some of them seem a little on the cheap side while others seem a little on the expensive but nevertheless its interesting to see what some "experts" think.

here is the link: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/292233

they asked john muckler and this was his response for those who dont want to read:

John Muckler

Muckler has more than 50 years of pro hockey experience as a part owner, general manager, director of player personnel, director of hockey operations, head coach, assistant coach and player.

I would trade Sundin to Detroit for ...

Andreas Lilja, D. 32 years old. In 42 games, has 2 goals, 7 assists with a plus-minus rating of plus-7.

Brendan Smith, D. 18 years old. A Toronto native, Smith was Detroit's first-round pick in 2007.

Two high round picks.

personally i dont like the idea of giving up this brendan smith kid because look what happened with matthias at the world juniors. it definitely pained me to watch. and why the hell would the leafs want lilja? another big slow defenseman? theyve already got kubina, gill, wizniewski and mccabe for that.

and for the record, ive cheered for the leafs for 20 years and watch every game, kaberle IS a steal at 4.25 million but so far this season hal gill has been basically their best defenseman which may surprise some but its true.

Edited January 10, 2008 by 12Newf

[daniel1 32]

Kaberle is a steal. There's 29 other teams that would take him for $4.25 million.

I did not say McCabe's contract is a good deal. It's just not as bad as it used to be, as $5.75 million isn't the outrageous amount that it used to be.

I never brought up Tucker or Blake because I agree those were two bad signings. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.

Sorry bud, I wasn't blaming you for JFJ's "creative accounting", and my Tucker/Blake cynicism is directed at JFJ, not you personally, but how that guy keeps his job is beyond me. That Kubina deal is probably the worst one in the NHL right now and you're right about McCabe, his cap hit is only 5mil even though he's paid 7 this year. If he was a UFA this year though I can't imagine anyone giving him any more than 2mil a year. Bob McCown was lobbying for him to be a healthy scratch not too long ago on his Toronto sports radio show.

[MacK_Attack 108]

I think McCabe would probably get close to $5 million on the open market, just like Souray did. They're basically identical players.

McCabe's a huge weapon on the powerplay and can log huge minutes. He just makes mistakes at the worst possible times. That said, he was playing the best hockey I can recall him playing before he got hurt.

He'd get the same amount again because there's always teams looking to improve their powerplay because it's so vital.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

I'm a Leafs fan who also cheers for Dallas.

k that would explain why you think youll get the moon for sundin ..... anyways time will tell

[MacK_Attack 108]

k that would explain why you think youll get the moon for sundin ..... anyways time will tell

Ah yes, so I guess I've now been labeled a brainless Leafs homer?

[Guest wingswillwincup]

thought i would throw this in there just because it has some reputable men discussing what they would ask for in return for sundin. some of them seem a little on the cheap side while others seem a little on the expensive but nevertheless its interesting to see what some "experts" think.

here is the link: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/292233

they asked john muckler and this was his response for those who dont want to read:

personally i dont like the idea of giving up this brendan smith kid because look what happened with matthias at the world juniors. it definitely pained me to watch. and why the hell would the leafs want lilja? another big slow defenseman? theyve already got kubina, gill, wizniewski and mccabe for that.

and for the record, ive cheered for the leafs for 20 years and watch every game, kaberle IS a steal at 4.25 million but so far this season hal gill has been basically their best defenseman which may surprise some but its true.

john muckler is an old man thats why hes not in hockey anymore lol , lilja is a ufa , maybe he thinks hes actually good and thinks theyd be able to sign him to a contract ....otherwise makes no sense lol

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Ah yes, so I guess I've now been labeled a brainless Leafs homer?

na ... i just think your expecting too much for a rental , especially that hes got a no trade clause , the only teams that will pay top notch for sundin are teams with basically no chance to win it all like nashville,islanders and atlanta who were the ones who traded all their assets , if sundin will leave toronto itll be for a real chance at a cup and the teams with real legit shots .. detroit,anaheim,ottawa etc... wont empty out their prospects pool for a 2-3 month rental player

as i said .... time will tell who is right