Wings fans are spoiled

[Opie 308]

The board has been filled with people who want to see the Wings lead the league in fighting minutes?

Really?

Honestly?

Seriously?

Not hyperbolically?

Starting a thread here to call out, what, five or six lunatic fringe posters is stupid, especially when the OP doesn't even understand where the supposed lunatics are coming from. When people say we need something, it's usually for good reason -- even if the urgency is often overstated. For example: no, I don't think we need to lead the league in fighting majors, but I do think it's worth considering the sad notion that someone can run any of our stars without having to truly owe up to it (no offense to Downey, but come on). What's to stop Pronger from "accidentally" taking a liberty with Hank's back? Certainly not the fear of being pounded by a Wing, let alone the possibility of a severe punishment from the league. Just some food for thought.

Well played, yes I was speaking hyperbolically about people speaking hyperbolically, you got me.

But:

Nothing will stop Pronger, nothing (well maybe a suspension or two). If he wants to throw elbows he will throw elbows, if he wants to take a hack he will, so on, so on,. So I am not really sure what you point is.

It is not protection for the wings' star players you want, you are looking for retribution. Which this topic was beat to death in the late summer early fall.

I never said the thread was smart, most of the threads on here are topics that have been beat to death, talked about ad nauseum, or are way out there. But isn't that the point of discussion boards.

[Opie 308]

Great song, and I've seen this a lot lately, what the hell does OP stand for?

Original poster!!

Red Rider: Lunatic Fringe ROCKS!!

[Inultus 12]

Starting a thread here to call out, what, five or six lunatic fringe posters is stupid, especially when the OP doesn't even understand where the supposed lunatics are coming from.

Actually my post was made more in regards to people I know in real life than posters on this site. I'm a bartender and I just get so damn sick of people complaining about the Wings, like OMG they've lost 4 games I knew they were going to screw it all up, or Hasek is too old to win a cup, or the Wings aren't tough enough.

It just gets really really old hearing it every day, while the Wings continue winning more games than anyone else.

And regarding the playoffs and our record, I think we've won the cup a good amount of times and just because we finish first and don't get a cup doesn't mean jack to me regarding the team needing major changes. I truly believe that any team can beat any other team when it comes to playoffs b/c it revolves more around goaltending and passion than anything (obviously you need talent to get there too, but I don't think pure talent wins you a cup).

Edited February 15, 2008 by Inultus

[Winged Scooter 0]

Original poster!!

Red Rider: Lunatic Fringe ROCKS!!

Yes it does! My wife and I were just watching "Vision Quest" the other night and the part where Matthew Modine is getting ready to wrestle "Shoot" and they fire up Lunatic Fringe in the background is AWESOME!

As for the OP, it's easy to whine or get carried away when you are a die-hard fan of a sport or a team !

Edited February 15, 2008 by Winged Scooter

[auxlepli 17]

I don't think pure talent wins you a cup.

With apologies to Herb Brooks, no team has enough talent to win on talent alone, especially in a 30-team, post-lockout NHL.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Seriously, it seems like a lot of Wings fans are impossible to please.

We have 2 great goalies, we've added toughness since last year, we have a bunch of players playing very well (Cleary and Kronwall are out, but they'll be back for playoffs) and we are leading the league in points.

Quit your whining!

I'm so sick of people saying we have no chance of winning the cup and that we need to make major trades and such. Go root for the ******* Thrashers or the Bruins or the Leafs or basically any other team in the league and then tell me how bad you have it being a Wings fan.

Even Anaheim fans have only been able to watch a good team for the last few years. We've been able to watch a cup-contending team for over a decade now.

I consider myself lucky. That doesn't mean I think we should get complacent with the team, but I hardly think we are. Holland, Yzerman and Babcock have great work ethic and that trickles down to the rest of the team.

Some people are whiners. But that's not to say some people don't have legitimate concerns. The fact that ken Holland will be looking to make some moves come deadline time is proof that even he has some concerns he'd like to address. Namely, those of more secondary scoring and a more physical presence on the ice.

Yeah, we did take big steps towards getting grittier. But it's not enough. You can take all the grit and size on our team and then go compare it to the grit and size on our possible playoff matchups. We don't even come close. It's like the a college team vs a high school jv squad when it comes to that.

I've said it enough I should probably change my sig to this "the wings are 2-3 big bodies away from hoisting a cup"

actually, I am going to change it to that.

Brad Stuart and Scott Thornton. BAM! there are your 2 bodies.

[cirov19 1]

Red Wings fans may be partially spoiled... but not completely. We have seen our team playing at their best and we know that when they play like that they are practically unbeatable. So we just want them to play their best all of the time. They outshot every team on this current losing streak. We want them to finish that. And we know they can finish that.

So we have a reason to be upset after losing four games straight because it shouldn't happen. That doesn't make us spoiled.

[esteef 2,679]

Some people are whiners. But that's not to say some people don't have legitimate concerns. The fact that ken Holland will be looking to make some moves come deadline time is proof that even he has some concerns he'd like to address. Namely, those of more secondary scoring and a more physical presence on the ice.

Yeah, we did take big steps towards getting grittier. But it's not enough. You can take all the grit and size on our team and then go compare it to the grit and size on our possible playoff matchups. We don't even come close. It's like the a college team vs a high school jv squad when it comes to that.

I've said it enough I should probably change my sig to this "the wings are 2-3 big bodies away from hoisting a cup"

actually, I am going to change it to that.

Brad Stuart and Scott Thornton. BAM! there are your 2 bodies.

Agree 100%. It can just be two so long as they are both big fighters. This is of course assuming Downey doesn't see much time in the playoffs but who knows. If the Wings go up 2-0 or 3-0 in a series Babs might let some guys start.

wurd

esteef

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Yeah well that's what happens when your team kicks ass for 15 straight seasons, the standards get raised. Dwelling on the things your team could do to improve is part of being a sports fan, and different people express themselves in different ways.

I'm not the type to go around preaching doom and disgust, but I kinda understand when people do, because more often than not they're just a passionate Wings fan getting their frustrations out or trying to get their ideas for the team out there. Frankly I get more annoyed at people who complain about other people complaining...it's an online sports forum, if you want peace, happiness, and everlasting optimism you are in the wrong place.

People will always find things to ***** about, it is the way of the sports fan.

[Dabura 12,232]

It is not protection for the wings' star players you want, you are looking for retribution. Which this topic was beat to death in the late summer early fall.

No, I'm looking for protection. Protection entails retribution, among other things.

It just gets really really old hearing it every day, while the Wings continue winning more games than anyone else.

It's because people realize there's a difference between winning more games than anyone else in the regular season and winning more games than anyone else in the postseason. The former means nothing for a perennial contender; it's the playoffs that truly test the mettle of Cup favorites. Unfortunately, the Wings have not been up to snuff in that arena for the better part of this decade.

'98 is now ten years gone. Those "dynasty" years should be viewed as irrelevant now.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Actually my post was made more in regards to people I know in real life than posters on this site. I'm a bartender and I just get so damn sick of people complaining about the Wings, like OMG they've lost 4 games I knew they were going to screw it all up, or Hasek is too old to win a cup, or the Wings aren't tough enough.

It just gets really really old hearing it every day, while the Wings continue winning more games than anyone else.

And regarding the playoffs and our record, I think we've won the cup a good amount of times and just because we finish first and don't get a cup doesn't mean jack to me regarding the team needing major changes. I truly believe that any team can beat any other team when it comes to playoffs b/c it revolves more around goaltending and passion than anything (obviously you need talent to get there too, but I don't think pure talent wins you a cup).

I feel ya man. Winning consistently over the years yields to people being spoiled and wanting more and more and more, and when there's the slightest bit of adversity, people don't handle it well generally speaking and act like a bunch of retards.

Exactly the reason why I don't talk about the Wings absolutely more than necessary because it's not worth getting heartburn over. In the end I usually just point and laugh at the people who are constantly complaining or having the constant defeatist attitude. It's like they enjoy being miserable, which is funny I think.

Edited February 16, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[Kp-Wings 3]

Yeah well that's what happens when your team kicks ass for 15 straight seasons, the standards get raised. Dwelling on the things your team could do to improve is part of being a sports fan, and different people express themselves in different ways.

I'm not the type to go around preaching doom and disgust, but I kinda understand when people do, because more often than not they're just a passionate Wings fan getting their frustrations out or trying to get their ideas for the team out there. Frankly I get more annoyed at people who complain about other people complaining...it's an online sports forum, if you want peace, happiness, and everlasting optimism you are in the wrong place.

People will always find things to ***** about, it is the way of the sports fan.

Best post in this entire topic. I completely agree.

[Guest Crymson]

Seriously, it seems like a lot of Wings fans are impossible to please.

We have 2 great goalies, we've added toughness since last year, we have a bunch of players playing very well (Cleary and Kronwall are out, but they'll be back for playoffs) and we are leading the league in points.

Quit your whining!

I'm so sick of people saying we have no chance of winning the cup and that we need to make major trades and such. Go root for the ******* Thrashers or the Bruins or the Leafs or basically any other team in the league and then tell me how bad you have it being a Wings fan.

Even Anaheim fans have only been able to watch a good team for the last few years. We've been able to watch a cup-contending team for over a decade now.

I consider myself lucky. That doesn't mean I think we should get complacent with the team, but I hardly think we are. Holland, Yzerman and Babcock have great work ethic and that trickles down to the rest of the team.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree, though hope you'd know that without me even needing to say it.

[Yemack 1]

Maybe I should be just happy that Wings are constantly good at regular season and not complain one bit so I can laugh at people being passionate about their team. Well that sounds about right

[chrisdetroit 189]

Hardly.

What people want is a truly well-rounded team. A couple seasons ago, we didn't have enough grit. It hurts us in the postseason, people complained, the problem was more or less addressed, and it paid off. Now there are a couple "new" problems that need to be addressed -- namely, the second line and our lack of a big, physical, stay-at-home blue-liner who can log big minutes without being a liability.

A big part of winning is keeping tabs on your weaknesses.

Why are so many people stuck on the "big physical" guys. Big physical guys that can play are great but having them doesn't guarantee anything. Just look at San Jose. Lilja is a big physical stay at home defenseman...... And just for the record, I have no problems with Lilja.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Maybe I should be just happy that Wings are constantly good at regular season and not complain one bit so I can laugh at people being passionate about their team. Well that sounds about right

Reagular season huh? Are you going to ingore the fact the we won the Cup in 97,98,2002? That's 3 times in 11 years. Ask Toronto fans if they would like to see the cup sometime in their lifetime. Or Chicago, or Boston Fans. Even the Rangers and the Canadians have had 1 cup a piece in the last 20+ years.

[Dabura 12,232]

Why are so many people stuck on the "big physical" guys.

People aren't just randomly saying, "Hey, I like big guys. We should have some big guys!" There's a reason -- two, actually.

1. Our near-total lack of big, physical players who can -- and here's the really important part -- log a lot of minutes.

2. Our near-total lack of people who will make the opposition think twice before taking liberties with our stars.

It's the first one, though, that is the real concern, as it is a legitimate weakness. It's especially obvious along our undersized and not-so-physical blue line. Or top 4 or 5 sorely needs a big, crease-clearing defensive defenseman, someone who can step up to the likes of Getzlaf -- who, like him or not, has made a hobby of singlehandedly assraping our d-zone while our defenders just stand there and watch like deer caught in headlights.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face and type it until my fingers fall off:

This is not '97. This is not '98. This is not '02. This is '08.

People need to start thinking like it. No more of this "Oh they'll be fine because they're the Wings, and even if they lose, the Leafs haven't won it all in decades, so there."

[Yemack 1]

Reagular season huh? Are you going to ingore the fact the we won the Cup in 97,98,2002? That's 3 times in 11 years. Ask Toronto fans if they would like to see the cup sometime in their lifetime. Or Chicago, or Boston Fans. Even the Rangers and the Canadians have had 1 cup a piece in the last 20+ years.

so I guess even if we dont win the cup or have a dissapointing exit this year, you and I should be satisfied? because we won the 3 cups in 11 years? hey whatever works for you.

I'm grateful to be a Wings fan but I won't be satisfied if we don't win the cup for next 100 years consecutively.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Actually my post was made more in regards to people I know in real life than posters on this site. I'm a bartender and I just get so damn sick of people complaining about the Wings, like OMG they've lost 4 games I knew they were going to screw it all up, or Hasek is too old to win a cup, or the Wings aren't tough enough.

It just gets really really old hearing it every day, while the Wings continue winning more games than anyone else.

And regarding the playoffs and our record, I think we've won the cup a good amount of times and just because we finish first and don't get a cup doesn't mean jack to me regarding the team needing major changes. I truly believe that any team can beat any other team when it comes to playoffs b/c it revolves more around goaltending and passion than anything (obviously you need talent to get there too, but I don't think pure talent wins you a cup).

I'm getting confused. Your comments seem to be all over the place.

First of all, the comments about us not being tough enough are not meritless.

As you say, pure talent alone does not win you a cup.

And for some of us, winning more regular season games and faultering in the playoffs is becoming tiresome.

Its fairly apparent that talent during the regular season wins you tons of games. And that talent in the playoffs doesn't necessarily stack up as well when every player out there is working his tail off. Teams with lesser talent tend to work their cans off in the playoffs. Not to say we don't but sometimes I think we have too much talent and too many of the same type of players and not enough of the guys who just want to wreak havoc on the ice and would scratch and claw and die and put a puck into the net with their face if it meant winning the game.

I have concerns about our size and our toughness and winning 8 bazillion regular season games doesn't mean s*** to me when it comes to addressing those issues.

[puckbags 863]

2. Our near-total lack of people who will make the opposition think twice before taking liberties with our stars.

I think this logic is so flawed nowadays. Here is a scenario for you. In our next game against the Ducks Pronger takes a good clean run at Z and plaster's him into the glass and he breaks his arm in 11 spots (just an example, I hope the Karma police don't axe me down). Next shift we send out ________ <<<< (insert your favorite goon there) to take care of Pronger and they drop the gloves and have a good clean fight. Do you really think that because we proved one of our guys will drop the mitts with Pronger that it's going to deter him from running Z through the glass the next time he gets the chance? No bloody way it's going to stop him from doing it again because thats the type of game he plays. Guys like Pronger, Downie (steve), Simon, Harntell etc.... are the type of guys who have no respect for their fellow players and will continue to take liberties as long as they play the game. Back in the day when someone took a run at Yzerman Probert would be right there to fix the situation and the guy who took a run at him wouldn't come near Yzerman for a long long time out of sheer respect for Stevie and Probert. So when you go off about how it isn't 97, 98 or 2002 it is 2008 maybe you should think about that because the job of super enforcer and retribution is all but a dead issue these days. Im not saying that 100% of the time a good fight doesn't change the momentum or send a message and I love a good fight but I think it's almost purely entertainment value now and a dying art.

[chrisdetroit 189]

so I guess even if we dont win the cup or have a dissapointing exit this year, you and I should be satisfied? because we won the 3 cups in 11 years? hey whatever works for you.

I'm grateful to be a Wings fan but I won't be satisfied if we don't win the cup for next 100 years consecutively.

No, I want to win the cup every year too. But to generalize that we ALWAYS lose early in the playoffs is crap. My point is that we don't ALWAYS make early exits, in fact we won 3 cups in the last 11 years and that shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

[Jwo 7]

Red Wings Till I Die!

[Kp-Wings 3]

Why are so many people stuck on the "big physical" guys. Big physical guys that can play are great but having them doesn't guarantee anything. Just look at San Jose. Lilja is a big physical stay at home defenseman...... And just for the record, I have no problems with Lilja.

Notice the part where he said "is not a liability". For the most part, Lilja is a liability, as his terribly slow skating and bad puckhandling skills make him exposed by better players.

While that is the case with a lot of physical defenseman, I really don't consider Lilja all that physical. He may lead the team in hits, but who exactly is his competition? The Wings are not known as a team that finishes their checks in the corner. The only other guy on the Wings that ever hits anyone is Downey, and he's hardly ever in the lineup. If he played regular minutes, I guarantee he'd have way more hits than Lilja.

I'd love for the Wings to pick someone else up for that role, but Ken Holland has the unbelievable love for Lilja. He now wants to sign him to a contract extension, so it looks like he won't be going anywhere for a while, which I'm not happy about at all.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[chrisdetroit 189]

People aren't just randomly saying, "Hey, I like big guys. We should have some big guys!" There's a reason -- two, actually.

1. Our near-total lack of big, physical players who can -- and here's the really important part -- log a lot of minutes.

2. Our near-total lack of people who will make the opposition think twice before taking liberties with our stars.

It's the first one, though, that is the real concern, as it is a legitimate weakness. It's especially obvious along our undersized and not-so-physical blue line. Or top 4 or 5 sorely needs a big, crease-clearing defensive defenseman, someone who can step up to the likes of Getzlaf -- who, like him or not, has made a hobby of singlehandedly assraping our d-zone while our defenders just stand there and watch like deer caught in headlights.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face and type it until my fingers fall off:

This is not '97. This is not '98. This is not '02. This is '08.

People need to start thinking like it. No more of this "Oh they'll be fine because they're the Wings, and even if they lose, the Leafs haven't won it all in decades, so there."

You are taking liberties with the facts to make your point. We don't have a TOTAL lack of big physical guys. Lilja, Franzen, Kopecky, Ellis, Holmstron are all big physical guys. Now before you go off the deep end, I am not saying that any of them are the next coming of Joe Thorton or Chris (ahole) Pronger but all 5 are big phsyical guys.

As far as taking liberties with our smaller guys, I think the days of the enforcers are long gone. You think a goon like Pronger is going to think twice before hitting Datsyuk just because we have an enforcer on the ice. I think not.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

You are taking liberties with the facts to make your point. We don't have a TOTAL lack of big physical guys. Lilja, Franzen, Kopecky, Ellis, Holmstron are all big physical guys. Now before you go off the deep end, I am not saying that any of them are the next coming of Joe Thorton or Chris (ahole) Pronger but all 5 are big phsyical guys.

As far as taking liberties with our smaller guys, I think the days of the enforcers are long gone. You think a goon like Pronger is going to think twice before hitting Datsyuk just because we have an enforcer on the ice. I think not.

I'll cut you some slack on the other guys cause they can at least show it in spurts, but Ellis? Wow....just wow.

:rotflmao: