Nick Lidstrom hit + reprercussions + idiot annoucer

[WingNutt 12]

As much as this video bothers me to watch Nick be in pain, and not know where he is I thought this would be a good post to discuss the game in more further. First off this comentator in the hightlight reel pisses me off for making fun of Lidstrom being disorientated, after I'm done being annoyed it shows, Downey doing the right thing, I knew we had to send a message you can't let another team hurt your captain and mvp defensemen and not do anything about it. I was so upset watching the game last night, I wanted to be their so I could get ahold of him myself.

great game other than Nick getting hurt and these highlights show the emotion the wings played with

discuss.

and get well soon Nick.

here is the link if the embed video doesen't work

Edited February 19, 2008 by WingNutt

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Downey did exactly what he was supposed to last night.

Also, I so badly want a transcript of what Babs and Granato said to each other. I find that stuff to be so interesting (like when Scotty told Crawford that he's known his dad since before he was born, and he didn't think he'd be too proud of the way his son was acting at that time--Priceless).

Edit: (Tori) Spelling

Edited February 19, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Opie 308]

My question is what kind of control does Quenville have when his assistant goes off on the other head coach. He just sat there saying and doing nothing. Is he a lame duck head coach, or does he just let his assistants make asses of themselves and indirectly he and his team.

Tony, there is a pecking order to things, and you my friend are near the bottom!!

[Spinner 6]

Also, I so badly want a transcript of what Babs and Granato were saying to each other.

Me too, Babs made me proud last night...not that I wasn't before

[Inultus 12]

Hit by Lappy was dirty cuz his elbow went up. However, if Lids injury truly is minor then I am glad it happened b/c it sparked the team.

Everyone played well, Downey and Babcock got pissed and I think it bodes well for us. Get well soon Nick!

[toby91_ca 620]

I seem to recall some on this board being against someone getting their ass kicked for throwing a hit on a star player (i.e. if it is a clean hit, it doesn't matter who it is). Now that it happens to someone like Nik, the tune seems to be changed. Granted, I can't demonstrate that one person changed their mind, it's just an overall sense that I get of the feeling on the subject before and after it happened to a Wing.

My take, which has never changed: Good that Downey did what he did, he needs to do that, otherwise, having someone like him is fairly useless. Unfortunately, the instigator rule does deter and limit this reaction quite a bit.

Facts are, if you are going to hit a star player (whether it is clean or not....I stress the importance of this as it should make no difference), that player needs to pay the price. This does not mean that the league needs to ban hits on star players, what is means is that a team has an enforcer to protect its star players, so when someone takes a run at a star player, that enforcer is there to send the message for him not to do it again.

[bringback91 2]

My question is what kind of control does Quenville have when his assistant goes off on the other head coach. He just sat there saying and doing nothing. Is he a lame duck head coach, or does he just let his assistants make asses of themselves and indirectly he and his team.

Tony, there is a pecking order to things, and you my friend are near the bottom!!

I'm guessing he got flashbacks of Joey K. Thus was frozen out of fear that while very small there was still a slight chance Joey might be in the building somewhere.

edit- besides it's obvious Babcock would kick Q's ass.

Edited February 19, 2008 by bringback91

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i absolutely love downeys quote in the detnews article:

"So my message is simple: The next time anyone runs any of our guys in a way that shouldn't be done, then a message will be sent. I'm not going to go out and run your skill guys, your superstars. I'm going to go right to the guy (who did it), and fair justice is fair justice."

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

My question is what kind of control does Quenville have when his assistant goes off on the other head coach. He just sat there saying and doing nothing. Is he a lame duck head coach, or does he just let his assistants make asses of themselves and indirectly he and his team.

Tony, there is a pecking order to things, and you my friend are near the bottom!!

Opie, I don't really have any problem with assistant coaches getting involved. I happen to remember our own Joey Kocur throwing a chair onto the ice once.

And later, not sure if it was the same game, but Kocur was mouthing off to the opposing team and their staff and giving them the whole, "step out there with me and i'll break your face open Joey K-style" tirade.

Tocchet's flown off the handle as an assistant coach as well. It happens and I don't think its a big deal.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Hit by Lappy was dirty cuz his elbow went up. However, if Lids injury truly is minor then I am glad it happened b/c it sparked the team.

Everyone played well, Downey and Babcock got pissed and I think it bodes well for us. Get well soon Nick!

I don't think the elbow was that bad. They were both sort of hunched over or going down to begin with. I don't think he was trying to plaster and elbow in Nick's face. It might look like that to some but Lappy is a pretty respectable guy. I think he has enough respect for the game and for Nick Lidstrom not to have done that purposefully. That's just what I think based on Lappy's reputation.

PS: I just watched the clip again, Lappy's elbow is tucked in when he makes contact. His left elbow actually hits Lidstrom around the bicep on his right arm and chest area and it just rode up after the hit as Lids was going backwards and Lappy followed through. Now I definitely don't think it was an elbow. Good non call by the refs.

Edited February 19, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Opie 308]

Getting involved I have no problem with,but yelling at the other head coach, that to me is not knowing your role.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I seem to recall some on this board being against someone getting their ass kicked for throwing a hit on a star player (i.e. if it is a clean hit, it doesn't matter who it is). Now that it happens to someone like Nik, the tune seems to be changed. Granted, I can't demonstrate that one person changed their mind, it's just an overall sense that I get of the feeling on the subject before and after it happened to a Wing.

My take, which has never changed: Good that Downey did what he did, he needs to do that, otherwise, having someone like him is fairly useless. Unfortunately, the instigator rule does deter and limit this reaction quite a bit.

Facts are, if you are going to hit a star player (whether it is clean or not....I stress the importance of this as it should make no difference), that player needs to pay the price. This does not mean that the league needs to ban hits on star players, what is means is that a team has an enforcer to protect its star players, so when someone takes a run at a star player, that enforcer is there to send the message for him not to do it again.

I agree that a huge double standard exists on this board when it comes to things like this, but I think the reason people are upset is because of where Laperriere's elbow and forearm were on the hit. It wasn't as high as the Pronger/Holmstrom hit of last years playoffs, but I think that's what people are upset about. That being said I can understand an argument from both sides. If Ian drops his elbow by 6 inches, there would be no argument for anyone to make as it would have been 100% clean, rather it would just be unfortunate for the Wings.

Where I agree with you completely Toby, is that even if Laperriere's elbow/forearm had hit Lidstrom in the chest, a good amount of people here would still be screaming "bloody murder".

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I don't think the elbow was that bad. They were both sort of hunched over or going down to begin with. I don't think he was trying to plaster and elbow in Nick's face. It might look like that to some but Lappy is a pretty respectable guy. I think he has enough respect for the game and for Nick Lidstrom not to have done that purposefully. That's just what I think based on Lappy's reputation.

I completely agree. Laperriere even said after the game that he has a ton of respect for Lidstrom, and I truly believe he didn't mean to go high on Lids. Unfortunately, regardless of the way he was trying to hit Lids, the replay shows that the end location of the elbow/forearm was high (thus causing the reaction).

You wouldn't know it, but I'm agreeing with you.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I completely agree. Laperriere even said after the game that he has a ton of respect for Lidstrom, and I truly believe he didn't mean to go high on Lids. Unfortunately, regardless of the way he was trying to hit Lids, the replay shows that the end location of the elbow/forearm was high (thus causing the reaction).

You wouldn't know it, but I'm agreeing with you.

You're right, people would scream bloody murder even if it was the cleanest hit ever.

I just wish those people would pause the clip at the point of impact. Lappy's elbow is tucked into his side. It's indesputable. I think what happened, and this is pure phsyics I suppose, is that Lappy drove Lids backwards and they both lost their footing, it just happened that his elbow rode up so at full speed it looks like an elbow. It wasn't. His elbow is tucked when he hits him and the direction they were falling just contributed to the elbow riding up towards Nick's jaw.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

You're right, people would scream bloody murder even if it was the cleanest hit ever.

I just wish those people would pause the clip at the point of impact. Lappy's elbow is tucked into his side. It's indesputable. I think what happened, and this is pure phsyics I suppose, is that Lappy drove Lids backwards and they both lost their footing, it just happened that his elbow rode up so at full speed it looks like an elbow. It wasn't. His elbow is tucked when he hits him and the direction they were falling just contributed to the elbow riding up towards Nick's jaw.

His glove (and therefore the end of his stick) was high and in Lid's face as he hit him, but I don't think it was intentional or vicious. Watching the replay again, you wouldn't expect someone to get their bell rung from that, it was just an awkward play.

I still can't tell if Nick got shaken up from the glove hitting his jaw, or his head crashing back into the glass, or what.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

You're right, people would scream bloody murder even if it was the cleanest hit ever.

I just wish those people would pause the clip at the point of impact. Lappy's elbow is tucked into his side. It's indesputable. I think what happened, and this is pure phsyics I suppose, is that Lappy drove Lids backwards and they both lost their footing, it just happened that his elbow rode up so at full speed it looks like an elbow. It wasn't. His elbow is tucked when he hits him and the direction they were falling just contributed to the elbow riding up towards Nick's jaw.

I could see that, but now we're really splitting hairs. All I'm saying is I can see why some people are upset, and that some people are going overboard with this. The location of the elbow/forearm was clean (and as you described it), but the follow through and location of the glove/hand on the initial hit is what people are probably upset about.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

His glove (and therefore the end of his stick) was high and in Lid's face as he hit him, but I don't think it was intentional or vicious. Watching the replay again, you wouldn't expect someone to get their bell rung from that, it was just an awkward play.

I still can't tell if Nick got shaken up from the glove hitting his jaw, or his head crashing back into the glass, or what.

Harold, not to nitpick it with you but pause the clip right at the 5 second mark. That's the point of initial contact and it's practically shoulder to shoulder or elbow to elbow. Lappy's elbow is down at impact. The elbow and glove rode up. They weren't high at impact.

edit: it's actually about the 5 and 1/2 second mark but......

Edited February 19, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Me thinks Granato is a bit of a hot head...Afterall he "tomahawked" Blackhawk Dman Wilkerson...

Yeah, as I said in the GDT, as long as Granato doesn't have a stick in his hands, my money is on Babcock to win that fight.

Here's Bab's stats from his playing days at McGiill University.

In 146 career games with the Redmen, he tallied 22 goals and 85 assists for a total of 107 points and 301 penalty minutes.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I could see that, but now we're really splitting hairs. All I'm saying is I can see why some people are upset, and that some people are going overboard with this. The initial hit was 100% clean (and as you described it), I just think people are focused on the follow through.

I definitely can see people going too far with this. That's LGW standard operating procedure.

For me, I just like to see where the arm is when contact is made. If its tucked in, them i'm okay with the hit. If it's up, then that will be evident on the video prior to any impact. But you don't see that here at all.

edit: I guess one could still assume Lappy intentionally drove his arm up to finish Lids off high. I guess that's plausible.

Edited February 19, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Harold, not to nitpick it with you but pause the clip right at the 5 second mark. That's the point of initial contact and it's practically shoulder to shoulder or elbow to elbow. Lappy's elbow is down at impact. The elbow and glove rode up. They weren't high at impact.

edit: it's actually about the 5 and 1/2 second mark but......

It's basically semantics. At the initial contact with Lidstrom, everything is down.

But Lappy follows through and his glove and stick do go up to Lids face, as Lidstrom smashes into the boards. So it wasn't at the point of impact for the hit, but it was at impact of Lids and the boards. And was probably a factor in his head hitting the glass harder than it otherwise would've.

I'm not saying it's a dirty hit, but his gloves got up a little high on the follow through as Lidstrom hit the glass. That's all.

Edited February 19, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I honestly don't think it was a dirty hit, his elbows were a little too high, but it wasn't intentionally done. Ian even said he hopes Nick is okay, which I respect a lot.

That being said, Aaron still had to take care of it, and he did just that.

BTW, it's not so much a double standard when one of our stars gets injured. Maybe some are going overboard and saying Downey or whoever should of put Ian in the hospital *which is freaking absurd & way unnescessary* but I think for the most part, those that wanted revenge just wanted one of ours to step up, fight the guy, and let him know he can't do it again, which is exactly what happened and was more than enough.

[Opie 308]

I didn't think the hit was illegal at all, it was a clean hard hit, the point of Downey is to plant a seed of doubt in a player's mind the next time they have a guy lined up. Do I want to get punched in the face over this hit, or am I better served to poke the puck or make a lesser hit. Which is why the argument that Downey would deter Tootoo or any one like that not do it again. They don't care, but a guy like Lappy may (doubt it) think twice next time, or at least the rest of the game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I definitely can see people going too far with this. That's LGW standard operating procedure.

For me, I just like to see where the arm is when contact is made. If its tucked in, them i'm okay with the hit. If it's up, then that will be evident on the video prior to any impact. But you don't see that here at all.

What else is new?

I definitely can see people going too far with this. That's LGW standard operating procedure.

For me, I just like to see where the arm is when contact is made. If its tucked in, them i'm okay with the hit. If it's up, then that will be evident on the video prior to any impact. But you don't see that here at all.

edit: I guess one could still assume Lappy intentionally drove his arm up to finish Lids off high. I guess that's plausible.

Exactly. You can't completely neglect the follow through either. I totally agree that the forearm/elbow on the initial hit was 100% clean, but the glove/hand rode up high as the hit progressed.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

My question is what kind of control does Quenville have when his assistant goes off on the other head coach. He just sat there saying and doing nothing. Is he a lame duck head coach, or does he just let his assistants make asses of themselves and indirectly he and his team.

Tony, there is a pecking order to things, and you my friend are near the bottom!!

Of course he is. Just look at his career record against the Wings. He needs to shave that stupid mustache off, it makes him look like some Scotland Yard jackass. And Granato was nothing but a stick swinging ***** his whole career that hid behind the enforcers on his team.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

What else is new?

But you can't completely neglect the follow through either. I totally agree that the forearm/elbow on the initial hit was 100% clean, but the glove/hand rode up high as the hit progressed.

Very true. I edited an earlier post to say that I guess it is plausible that Lappy intentionally drove his arm up to finish Lids off high. Then it becomes an issue of whether or not we believe Lappy to be that kind of player.

I think another factor here though is that if Lids just gets there a split second sooner he takes that hit and he just gets pinched along the boards and no big deal. I think the fact that he lost his footing and was going down made it all the more easier for that elbow to ride up. Lids is taller than Lappy, had he been in an upright position then they wouldn't have fallen awkwardly like that and Lappy just pins him with that hit along the boards and there's no room for his elbow to ride up.

Just my thinking of what might have contributed there as I personally don't believe Lappy tried to finish him high and hard. But it's possible he did, he is an Ave after all.

Edited February 19, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted