Should Sammy Sit for Maltby?

[Third Man In 2,091]

How can you even mention Helm along with Hartigan? He did more today than Hartigan has done in his whole NHL career. You can't reward him by benching him when there's worse players who are dressed in the lineup.

Exaggerate much?

Hartigan: 102GP 19G 11A 30PTS -13+/- 58PIM

Helm: 7GP 0G 0A 0PTS -2+/- 2PIM

Not stellar numbers on Hartigan's part, but he averages a point almost every three games--not terrible for a role player. I mention Helm along with Hartigan because they occupy the same lineup spot.

with your logic, it only seems right that McCarty would sit. Regardless, it's going to be a hard decision. I wouldn't be surprised if McCarty is scratched. I love the dude, but Samuelsson has more to offer at this point. Same goes for Helm. The extra speed on the fourth line coming from Helm is awesome.

On the bright side, this discussion could be a lot different. It's a breath of fresh air to be arguing over who should sit rather than who should make the lineup due to injuries.

You must have misread my post, or perhaps I wasn't clear. My logic was that "it's absolutely unreasonable to expect someone who's played a handful of NHL games to bring that every day in the playoffs." Helm has played 7 games in his career. McCarty has player 745. I think Sammy and McCarty play over Helm, but I basically agree with your post.

I gotta disagree; from what little I had seen of the game today Sammy didn't look so good (could add the entire series for that matter - fumbling the puck/missing the net when he does shoot)...Sit him for a few games, & see what Malts can do, & keep Helm in...Can never discount youthful enthusiasm.

You have an absolute point here. Helm provided a spark, and he could continue to do so. But you also cannot discount youthful inexperience.

Look, I don't disagree that Sammy hasn't been disappointing the past couple seasons. But he's also got a lot of NHL experience and gets dumped on here more than he deserves. I also think that Helm's got a heck of a lot of potential and could also be a valuable player this playoffs if the Wings have some injuries to their forwards. And perhaps he should play over Hartigan. But I think that when Malts comes back it makes no sense to bench a player who played every day during the year in favor of a guy with 7 games of NHL experience.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

No.

[Rivalred 630]

I think they should sit Pavel for Maltby... There is no way I would sit Sammie....

[EuroTwinLove40 0]

Sammy has been a little better this series than he was in the reg. season, but today he was absolutely abysmal!

Should he sit? No doubt.

Will he sit? Doubt it.

For some unknown reason Babs has an unhealthy obsession with Samuelsson.

[58Miles2Joe 12]

Today was the worst I've ever seen any athlete perform in his/her own sport. Congrats Sammy.

Literally, the Wings would be better if he just wasn't on the team, with no replacement.

I will never understand why Babs keeps using him. Never.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

I am not a big fan of Sammy, but he has played really well in Games 5 & 6. I don't get the constant knocks on him. Especially from what I've seen the last 2-3 games.

didn't u notice him coasting around today and turning over the puck. he always coasts it pisses me off just like lang use to do..

EDIT: sammy played well in game 5 tho

Edited April 21, 2008 by 10 Minute Misconduct

[Copenhagen848 58]

I, for the life of me, cannot figure out what Babcock sees in him, or why he plays Sammy as much as he does and on the PP. He is so horrible and sucks so bad I literally want to throw the remote through the TV when he is on the ice. How many times did he turn the puck over today? In all honestly, I bet maybe 2 of his shifts today did he NOT turn the puck over.

Sammy needs to sit...BADLY. Everyone says he's good defensively and has size. I've seen nothing in his game that supports those arguments. He is terrible, I can't wait until he is no longer a Red Wing. I've never disliked a Red Wing as much as him.

Are you serious? Honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick, but did you actually watch the game today? That was easily the worst game I've ever seen Sammy play as far as turnovers and puck movement goes. He turned the puck over nearly every time he touched the puck today.

I'm sorry man.....I just can't believe you thought he played a good game today.

Today was the worst I've ever seen any athlete perform in his/her own sport. Congrats Sammy.

Literally, the Wings would be better if he just wasn't on the team, with no replacement.

I will never understand why Babs keeps using him. Never.

As you can see, you and I are in complete agreement.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Copenhagen848

[Kp-Wings 3]

I am not a big fan of Sammy, but he has played really well in Games 5 & 6. I don't get the constant knocks on him. Especially from what I've seen the last 2-3 games.

I'd have figured that, if any positive talk was made about Samuelsson, it would have been of his performance in Game 1, because he actualy looked like he knew what he was doing in that game. But Games 5 and 6? Are you kidding me? He was far and away the worst player on the ice for the Wings today, and a strong case could be made for that in Game 5 as well.

A bag of rocks could play better hockey than Samuelsson. He does nothing but aimlessly throw the puck away to the other team when any sort of pressure is put on him, because he's too afraid to take a check (it's any wonder how a person of his size, being 6'2, could be, but I guess there's an exception for everything). He hasn't proven anything offensivily in nearly 3 years, which was his fluke 20-goal season, during which he was playing with players like Datsyuk and Shanahan, who could probably turn Downey into a 20 goal scorer if he got that opportunity (and that much ice time). I honestly can't understand what people see in this guy. Defensivily responsible? How do you call over 2-3 giveaways a shift, on average, defensivily responsible?

I understand that players have their off-nights and what not, but Samuelsson has been "off" ever since his career began. This guy is brutal to watch. I will never understand whose ass he kissed to make it to the NHL, especially to make it on the Red Wings for that matter, but I must find this person. Maybe if I play my cards correctly when dealing with them, I could have an NHL career as well.

[dallas27 7]

Sammy hit the net a couple times this series. How do you take him out again?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Knowing Babcock, Hudler will be the one benched.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Definitly. Of all guys on the team that don't have a role here, Samuelsson definitly fits that bill.

I just hope Babcock doesn't take McCarty out of the lineup, especially after Babcock comes out publicly and says what a great leader McCarty has been so far, and how his play has improved every game. Not only is McCarty proving that he can help this team and not be a lieability, he's bringing that physical edge that is always important in the playoffs, something that Samuelsson does not do at all. Plus, McCarty has never missed a playoff game with the Red Wings in his entire career (that's while playing in Detroit, not counting last season in Calgary); I don't want to see that streak ended because he was scratched for a useless loser like Samuelsson that hasn't pulled his weight on this team all season.

Helm has played great, and I hope they keep him in. He's fast, gritty, and did an excellent job setting up Hudler's goal today. Give this kid a spot on this team next season; he's really proving himself.

So, with all this said, here are the lines I'd like to see when Maltby comes back:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Hudler - Franzen - Filppula

Cleary - Draper - Maltby

McCarty - Helm - Drake

Scratch: Samuelsson, Hartigan, those Grand Rapids guys

Looks good to me. Great combination of scoring and grit with that lineup.

Make the right choice Babcock! Sit Samuelsson, play Helm and McCarty, and everything will be good!

Thats a sick 4th line, and exactly the type of line you see on Cup-winning teams. Simply not seeing Samuelsson in the lineup makes us look a lot stronger.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Thats a sick 4th line, and exactly the type of line you see on Cup-winning teams. Simply not seeing Samuelsson in the lineup makes us look a lot stronger.

Not to mention the 3rd line was fantastic last year. And ZDH speaks for itself, the line-up does look stronger with Sammy in it.

[Opie 308]

With the development of Franzen as a top 6 threat, Sammy's role goes to nearly zilch.

He shouldn't be on the PP and the last two games has looked, bad!!!

You can blame the ice all you want for yesterday's miscues, but what about game 5?

With the development of youth Sammy is trade able in the offseason, and his role now has become something outside of his skill set.

His place on the third line could be filled with anyone of the following:

Maltby: I dogged on this guy all year, however you cannot replace his type of experience in the post season.

Huds: Hudler has shown he deserves the minutes over Sammy, IMO all year long.

Abdelkader: Maybe not in the post season, but if the guy can keep the puck on his stick and make a decision in less than the three seconds it is currently taking Sammy, give him the shot.

I have defended Sammy all year because he was the guy that filled the gap that guys like Huds and Mule have shown they can take over now. His role has been eliminated, just tell him the Wings are downsizing, hey it worked for one of the companies I worked for why not an NHL team!

[Hank 0]

The way Helm looked today, I can't believe this kid didn't play more this season. To me, there's no way in hell that he sits when Maltby returns. He was maybe our best player today.

So to answer my own question, I think Sammy should sit for Maltby. The only player who's looked more useless offensively than Sammy is Cleary, and he works too hard out there to be benched. Also, Drake and McCarty have both brought a physical edge, and Hudler has been stellar to everyone's surprise.

So that leaves Sammy out of the lineup in my mind for when Malts comes back. Do you guys agree?

Excellent topic.

But I should never be asked this question. I would rather have SARS on this team than Sammy.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

With the development of Franzen as a top 6 threat, Sammy's role goes to nearly zilch.

He shouldn't be on the PP and the last two games has looked, bad!!!

You can blame the ice all you want for yesterday's miscues, but what about game 5?

With the development of youth Sammy is trade able in the offseason, and his role now has become something outside of his skill set.

His place on the third line could be filled with anyone of the following:

Maltby: I dogged on this guy all year, however you cannot replace his type of experience in the post season.

Huds: Hudler has shown he deserves the minutes over Sammy, IMO all year long.

Abdelkader: Maybe not in the post season, but if the guy can keep the puck on his stick and make a decision in less than the three seconds it is currently taking Sammy, give him the shot.

I have defended Sammy all year because he was the guy that filled the gap that guys like Huds and Mule have shown they can take over now. His role has been eliminated, just tell him the Wings are downsizing, hey it worked for one of the companies I worked for why not an NHL team!

How dare you sign on under Opie's name and make these posts on his computer? I hope Opie finds out about this.

[Opie 308]

Hey man I give credit where credit is due, and I will critique when it is time. :-)

My stance all along has been that Sammy served a role, now that Mule has stepped up, and the youth show that his role has been eliminated.

I was by no means a huge fan, or in love with Sammy, I just thought he unabashed Sammy bashing was unwarranted and I defended a decent player.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Hey man I give credit where credit is due, and I will critique when it is time. :-)

My stance all along has been that Sammy served a role, now that Mule has stepped up, and the youth show that his role has been eliminated.

I was by no means a huge fan, or in love with Sammy, I just thought he unabashed Sammy bashing was unwarranted and I defended a decent player.

Sammy is doing nothing differently now than when you were defending him. The only role he filled was that of a seat filler, and not someone who stepped up and took care of our secondary scoring.

Yeah, the youth has stepped it up on this team, but to me Sammy should lose his spot to Maltby not because someone else has stepped it up, but because he's never done anything.

As I posted earlier, I enjoy watching him play in the regular season for comical humor, but in the playoffs everything is serious, and his goofy moves and unusual style of offensive play isn't something I take pleasure in watching in these types of games. He must be a healthy scratch.

[Reds4Life 51]

Zetterberg Datsyuk Holmstrom

Filppula Franzen Cleary

Maltby Draper Drake

Hudler Helm McCarty/Downey

This is ideal line-up imho.

But Babcock loves Sammy too much

[58Miles2Joe 12]

Zetterberg Datsyuk Holmstrom

Filppula Franzen Cleary

Maltby Draper Drake

Hudler Helm McCarty/Downey

This is ideal line-up imho.

But Babcock loves Sammy too much

I'll second that. With Abdulkader on deck, then sammy after him.

[OsGOD 3]

I would sit sammy for anybody that wasn't name or looked or played like sammy.

[Seraph 240]

I agree with everyone regarding Sammy, but am not hopeful.

Is there even a precedent for this? Has Sammy ever been in the doghouse with Babcock? I don't remember ever seeing him as a healthy scratch. As good as it would be for the team, I'm not seeing it happen.

[Opie 308]

Sammy is doing nothing differently now than when you were defending him. The only role he filled was that of a seat filler, and not someone who stepped up and took care of our secondary scoring.

Yeah, the youth has stepped it up on this team, but to me Sammy should lose his spot to Maltby not because someone else has stepped it up, but because he's never done anything.

As I posted earlier, I enjoy watching him play in the regular season for comical humor, but in the playoffs everything is serious, and his goofy moves and unusual style of offensive play isn't something I take pleasure in watching in these types of games. He must be a healthy scratch.

You're right he sucked all year and how Babcock has a job after playing him all of those minutes absolutely astonishes me, because honestly without him the team easily would have been first in the league, oh wait, well the surely would have been one of the best offensive teams without Sammy, oh wait, well then they definitely would have been one of the best defensive teams in the league without him, oh wait, well they surely would have won at least 50 games without Sammy, DAMN it again something that they did with him in the line up.

Well I mean it is not like the guy had 25 assists or anything, oh crap, well he must have had at least a s***ty +/-, oh damn it again he was +21.

Again, you are right what in the hell was Babcock thinking giving this guy 16 minutes of ice time when he easily could have played anyone of the following players in his spot that don't play on line one that had better stats than Sammy.

Are you ready the list is really long:

Cleary

Hudler

I mean it is not like the guy was top 5 on the team in assists or anything!!

Yeah he should have been benched all year and his ice time given to any number of the players on the team that had better stats then him, just for fun lets list them shall we:

In order by pts

Dats

Z

Lids

Ralf

Cleary

Hudler

So in your infinite hockey coaching and GM experience tell me of those who should have been placed in the top 6 instead of Sammy?

One Guy Cleary, and he was playing such great D with Draper Babs would have been silly to break up his best Defensive line and swap Cleary for Sammy who is not nearly the defender Cleary is.

Remember Mule didn't step it up until the second half of the season!

[Dawgs 0]

I dont think anyone should sit for Maltby. His games degraded to the point of being worthless. No longer is he an agitator. He doesnt score and his forecheck is nonexistant.I love the guy for what hes done in past years but I dont see how you can sit a guy thats in game shape and contributing in favor of a PK "specialist" who will take 4 or 5 games just to get to his subpar level.

[Dominator2005 558]

I would sit Sammy for Abdelkader or even Downey... no need for Sammy - we can even play without him... We are better 4 on 5 without Sammy than 5 on 5 with Sammy...

[gowingsgo 3]

Play the kid, sit Sammy