Pang: Avs in 6

[PapaFunk 0]

Datsyuk has a tendency of lighting up Foote, it will be how the 2 D's play and the Wings are far better in that department. A lot of people think finger is good but he isnt, Mike Haynes and several other commentators just love to say the name finger so you think hes actually doing something. Liles and whoever else are back there arent very good either. Salei is probably their best but is only really good on a team with a lot of other good D which he isnt

You need to actually back up what you say with some evidence otherwise you sound pretty ignorant. Why do you think Finger isn't good? Why do you think Liles isnt' good, Why is Salei their best? You gotta give some examples.

And thinking that Salei is better than Adam Foote pretty much discredits your opinion unless you provide something to back it up.

[Hank 0]

Its really a hollow argument when you don't bring up how horrid Minnesota's offense really is. Datsyuk as our best offense presence is better than Gaborik as theirs. And theres no comparing Zetterberg to Demtra or Rolston. I dont see why no one is really bothering to point this out. The Wild THEMSELVES (aka Rolston and Demitra) came out and said things to the effect of "we dont have as much chemistry as we did last year" and "we need a top 6 center." The Wild players themselves were making this statements throughout the season, yet no one is bothering to bring that up now? Thats ridiculous IMO. I dont buy all these "all hail Adam Foote and Jose Theodore" arguements when they have yet to face a legit offensive team.

The Red Wings may not have the better top 6, but excuse me if I was thinking that there are 12 forwards on a team for any given game. The Red Wings may not have the best offensive talent, but they were one of the best offensive teams in the league this year. How can that be discounted??

And real quick question here. Which Dmen on the Wild, in terms of offensive capability, can compare in any way shape or form to Niklas Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski, and Niklas Kronwall?? Thats what I thought. I have no problem with people discounting the Wings or picking the Avs over us, but why have so few people failed to point out that the Wild and the Wings are on different ends of the spectrum..?

I agree with many of your points. The Wings have more depth and talent up front than what Minnesota has.

My line of thinking comes from the fact that I've seen the Wings 'top offense' choke in the playoffs when meeting a certain type of defense.

The Avs are going to be just as physical, or more so, than what the Preds brought. But they also have a much better defense and far greater offense. Look how close game 5 was and they didn't even have their top 2 centers in the lineup. And their defense isn't exactly a world breaker either.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't be so upset with anyone picking the Avs at this point. It's not like this team is a bad squad. They struggled this year because half of their best offensive players were out of the lineup all year.

But then they got healthy and added Foote and Forsberg - two great players and tremendous playoff performers. On top of that Theo has never looked better.

We can all slap each other on the backs and say how the Wings 'rule' and 'we're the best'. But the truth of the matter is the Avs are deeper in certain areas than we are.

I'm not trying to say the Wings have no chance at all. Quite the contrary. I'm just pointing out the weapons Colorado has at their disposal.

This will be a very tight and competitive series. And entertaining as well.

The better team will prevail and at this point it's up for grabs as to who that team will be.

In my estimation, the winner of this series will be the team that wants it more. The team that's willing to take sticks to the face and pucks to the groin. Will the Wings show that kind of perseverance? Lets hope so. They'll need it.

[Hank 0]

Yea no doubt dude i agree with you, but im just saying, just because they have bigger names doesnt really mean their all going to perform as expected to. Just my opinion.

And it's a great opinion. I hope that a number of their guys disappear or get frustrated facing Lids half the games.

I'm just saying their offense has to be kept in check. It's very explosive.

[12Newf 0]

pang invented the 6-hole (straight over his head). suck it pang.

he usually manages to say, "well actually the other day when i was at steve yzermans cottage since were friends he said ______." because he likes to name drop. i hope stevie kicks his ass!

Edited April 24, 2008 by 12Newf

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Why? I find him to be one of the few thats dead on in most cases.

Pang is one of those guys who picks just to be different from the other guys so if it does come true, he can say he is right. When he is calling a game, I think he does a great job because he is talking about what he sees. When he starts breaking down a playoff series he becomes that guy in the NCAA pool who picks a 14 over a 3 just in case it happens.

All of this talk about Colorado's top two lines is getting a little ridiculous. Forsberg, Sakic and Smyth have all missed substantial time this year with injuries that lag. The slipped out of a series that they were outplayed in. Minnesota wasn't that good of a team. I'm all about giving opponents the respect that they deserve, but you can blow too much sunshine up their skirts.

[sergei_is_still_a_wing 1]

he makes some decent points. their top six is better.

but as they say: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. and ours is ******* beautiful. there is no other group of six in hockey that i'd want in a playoff series.

so no panger is not a moron. nor does he lack hockey knowledge in any sense of the phrase. he simply feels the hot goalie and guys up front will get it done.

we of course disagree. but this one WILL be close.

i'll take bucci's predictions over all other sports analysts though. wings in seven. NOTE: he picked 7 winners of the 8 series (and 5 of them the correct game count too).

[hockey&beer 16]

I guess if on looks at what is called the "top 6" on the Wings than maybe CO has us beat. The problem with that is, if you count the "3rd line" they are superior to the Avs top 9.

And I may be alone on this but isn't MN considered a low scoring, defensive-trap type of team. Do the "experts" actually think that the Wings offense is even close to the Wild's? I sure think that Theodore was "made" to look better than he is just because he faced the Wild. That's similar to the save percentages goalies get after they face the Wings and their 35-50 SOG.

I REALLY don't think that this series is going to be as close as some are making out to be.

[egroen 384]

I'll take a dominant defense over a dominant offense any day... and no matter how many offensive tools Colorado has, none of them can control the game the way Zetterberg and Datsyuk can (like Sakic and Forsberg in their primes).

Holmstrom and Hudler are the only forwards on the Wings that do not have a high-end defensive skill set. How many forwards on the Avs can say the same thing? Wings will smother Colorado and control the puck 75% of the games.

Neverminding the clear advantage in defensemen the Wings have, look at the defense of their forwards:

Excellent (Selke worthy) = Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper

Great (Top PKers on any team) = Maltby, Franzen, Cleary

Good (PK role on any team) = Fillpula, Helm, Samuelsson, McCarty, Drake

OK (skills to play a PK role but does not) = Hudler

Bad (Never see on a PK) = Holmstrom

That is tough to match.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

how can you ask "why?" if this is perfectly obvious.

he didn't pick Wings. he's an a*(peep)* and knows s*(peep)* about hockey.

right?

Panger is actually OK guy. it's his guess and he has every right to see it this way.

and in fact, knowing he was a goalie and now rates Theodore high is something

to worry about for a Wings fan. hope Theodore is not that good agains us

Absolutely he has every right to see it that way. That wasn't what I was questioning. Now that I reread it, I had a brainfart with the question I posed Liddy. I took it as saying Panger didn't know what he was talking about a good amount of the time, and all Liddy was saying was that the sensible choice is Detroit.

I've been at work too long today.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Xitium 272]

I was listening to home ice on XM radio, and both of the guys chose wings in 6. Don't know their names, but who cares.

E.J. Hradek and Don LaGreca.

I listen to them almost every (week) day. Any show that talks about mostly hockey is a win in my book even though they have a huge east coast bias. They just talk about the teams that are close to them. They will talk about other teams if you call in and ***** at them though, haha.

[PapaFunk 0]

I'll take a dominant defense over a dominant offense any day... and no matter how many offensive tools Colorado has, none of them can control the game the way Zetterberg and Datsyuk can (like Sakic and Forsberg in their primes).

Holmstrom and Hudler are the only forwards on the Wings that do not have a high-end defensive skill set. How many forwards on the Avs can say the same thing? Wings will smother Colorado and control the puck 75% of the games.

Neverminding the clear advantage in defensemen the Wings have, look at the defense of their forwards:

Excellent (Selke worthy) = Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper

Great (Top PKers on any team) = Maltby, Franzen, Cleary

Good (PK role on any team) = Fillpula, Helm, Samuelsson, McCarty, Drake

OK (skills to play a PK role but does not) = Hudler

Bad (Never see on a PK) = Holmstrom

That is tough to match.

Thats a good point, the Wings do have really good 2 way players on Offense. However I wouldn't discount Colorado's two way ability either.

Sakic, Hejduk, Stastny, Guite, Laperriere are some of the most intelligent Hockey wise two way players out there.

If Colorado continues to tear it up on the PP and the Wings take too many penalties they are in trouble.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Pang is one of those guys who picks just to be different from the other guys so if it does come true, he can say he is right. When he is calling a game, I think he does a great job because he is talking about what he sees. When he starts breaking down a playoff series he becomes that guy in the NCAA pool who picks a 14 over a 3 just in case it happens.

All of this talk about Colorado's top two lines is getting a little ridiculous. Forsberg, Sakic and Smyth have all missed substantial time this year with injuries that lag. The slipped out of a series that they were outplayed in. Minnesota wasn't that good of a team. I'm all about giving opponents the respect that they deserve, but you can blow too much sunshine up their skirts.

No worries Liddy. I completely misunderstood you.

Long day at work.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Nobody can deny that the Avs top six are far better than ours:

Wolski-Sakic-Hejduk

Forsberg-Stastny-Smyth

Dats-Zetts-Homer

Franzen-Filpulla-Cleary

That's not even close. Our 2nd line looks like most peoples 3rd or 4th lines. In fact, it's probably equal to OUR 3rd and 4th lines.

Stastny and Wolski?

Neither has ever been in the post-season. Wolski was personna non grata here in Denver all year - didn't live up to expectations. Statsny has an underachieving series vs. the Wild.

Forsberg-Sakic-Hejduk looks great on paper....BUT that is like us pulling Federov-Yzerman-Shanny off the shelf right now. All are past their prime and some with serious injury problems. Not that they are not a threat but this is NOT the 2001-2 team folks.

I'll agree with you that Franz Flip and Cleary are not a seasoned playoff threat - but saying Stastny and Wolski are better I think is just not correct....we shall see in a few hours...

[Hank 0]

Stastny and Wolski?

Neither has ever been in the post-season. Wolski was personna non grata here in Denver all year - didn't live up to expectations. Statsny has an underachieving series vs. the Wild.

Forsberg-Sakic-Hejduk looks great on paper....BUT that is like us pulling Federov-Yzerman-Shanny off the shelf right now. All are past their prime and some with serious injury problems. Not that they are not a threat but this is NOT the 2001-2 team folks.

I'll agree with you that Franz Flip and Cleary are not a seasoned playoff threat - but saying Stastny and Wolski are better I think is just not correct....we shall see in a few hours...

Which I'll be seeing live.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

E.J. Hradek and Don LaGreca.

I listen to them almost every (week) day. Any show that talks about mostly hockey is a win in my book even though they have a huge east coast bias. They just talk about the teams that are close to them. They will talk about other teams if you call in and ***** at them though, haha.

Yes they are in NY and most of the callers are from the East. BUT they do try to analyze the West - and usually there is at least one caller about the Wings per day. Plus, Nick was on this week after he got nominated for the Norris.

[Louisville 112]

Absolutely. The Wild outplayed the Avs overall in that series.

However, what scares me is that the Wild and Wings play nearly identical styles. The Avs were able to keep Minnesota to the parameter where they pestered Theodore with a lot of long shots and then blocked many of their quality chances.

The Wings have better size up front and a far deeper defensive core.

But I think we as Wings fans better get ready to be frustrated when we watch one 40-foot shot after another making Theo look much better than he is.

And we absolutely need to stay out of the box. Their PP is deadly.

Wrong.

Colorado's power play sucks, every Colorado game I watched this season (including the ones after the trade deadline) had me cracking up at their PP. They always seemed to over think it. Also, 4 of the 17 goals the Avs scored against Minnesota were PP goals. Which isn't too bad but not deadly.

Their PP% was also ranked 28th in the regular season

[WingsZR2 1]

but as they say: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. and ours is ******* beautiful. there is no other group of six in hockey that i'd want in a playoff series.

Thank you for beating me to this. In addition to this its a fair assumption that we will have the puck 70% of the time so their D will be reacting all game. In any sport you use more energy playing defense than offense, so with that, the Avs D should be quite tired in the later stages of the game.

If we show up and play like games 5 and 6 they don't stand a chance. If we have the mental lapses of games 3 and 4, well, this could go to 7.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Its really a hollow argument when you don't bring up how horrid Minnesota's offense really is. Datsyuk as our best offense presence is better than Gaborik as theirs. And theres no comparing Zetterberg to Demtra or Rolston. I dont see why no one is really bothering to point this out. The Wild THEMSELVES (aka Rolston and Demitra) came out and said things to the effect of "we dont have as much chemistry as we did last year" and "we need a top 6 center." The Wild players themselves were making this statements throughout the season, yet no one is bothering to bring that up now? Thats ridiculous IMO. I dont buy all these "all hail Adam Foote and Jose Theodore" arguements when they have yet to face a legit offensive team.

The Red Wings may not have the better top 6, but excuse me if I was thinking that there are 12 forwards on a team for any given game. The Red Wings may not have the best offensive talent, but they were one of the best offensive teams in the league this year. How can that be discounted??

And real quick question here. Which Dmen on the Wild, in terms of offensive capability, can compare in any way shape or form to Niklas Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski, and Niklas Kronwall?? Thats what I thought. I have no problem with people discounting the Wings or picking the Avs over us, but why have so few people failed to point out that the Wild and the Wings are on different ends of the spectrum..?

Thats what I was thinking, this is an entire team that is well above average at almost every aspect of the game. I think the Wings have some amazing players but also that the whole of our team is much more than the sum of its parts. I don't think (especially looking at the last round) we have a team that allows the Avs to take a shift off, they never get a break offensively or defensively, first through fourth line, any special team setting, or even if we have to replace our goalie - an over the course of 7 games I think that really matters. The fact that they may have a better set or line doesn't mean as much to me as the overall of our team.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Frozen-Man

[PapaFunk 0]

Wrong.

Colorado's power play sucks, every Colorado game I watched this season (including the ones after the trade deadline) had me cracking up at their PP. They always seemed to over think it. Also, 4 of the 17 goals the Avs scored against Minnesota were PP goals. Which isn't too bad but not deadly.

Their PP% was also ranked 28th in the regular season

Correction, Colorado's power play sucked in REGULAR SEASON. They are currently over 20% in the playoffs so far, which is one of the best out there. I could care less what they did or didn't do before the playoffs, the fact is right now the Power Play is very capable.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I thought Panger was one of Yzermans good friends. How DARE he bet against the Wings...

[Frozen-Man 144]

Correction, Colorado's power play sucked in REGULAR SEASON. They are currently over 20% in the playoffs so far, which is one of the best out there. I could care less what they did or didn't do before the playoffs, the fact is right now the Power Play is very capable.

I agree they are playing the pp well and will have to keep it up to have a good chance. Amazingly, in the first round the Wings and the Avs both averaged 2.83 goals per game and both teams allowed 2.00 goals against per game. Everyone is talking about how great the Avs were last round and how much better they are playing - while it has been repeatedly stated how the Wings did not play up to their potential (especially games 3 and 4). I do think there is something to the fact that the Wings could play much better (don't know if they will ) but I'm not sure that the Avs can play much better than last round.

[akustyk 84]

Correction, Colorado's power play sucked in REGULAR SEASON. They are currently over 20% in the playoffs so far, which is one of the best out there. I could care less what they did or didn't do before the playoffs, the fact is right now the Power Play is very capable.

correction: their power play was capable against the Wild.

how this translates into success against the Wings is yet to be seen.

there are reasons to believe they'll fare well but a lot here depends

on the quality of defense they faced and their actual quality vs. luck

[PapaFunk 0]

I agree they are playing the pp well and will have to keep it up to have a good chance. Amazingly, in the first round the Wings and the Avs both averaged 2.83 goals per game and both teams allowed 2.00 goals against per game. Everyone is talking about how great the Avs were last round and how much better they are playing - while it has been repeatedly stated how the Wings did not play up to their potential (especially games 3 and 4). I do think there is something to the fact that the Wings could play much better (don't know if they will ) but I'm not sure that the Avs can play much better than last round.

I think this is because the Avs beat the #3 seed who was the top team in the division and the Wings seemed to struggle against the #8 seed who had 2 of their top forwards out in a game they nearly lost.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Wrong.

Colorado's power play sucks, every Colorado game I watched this season (including the ones after the trade deadline) had me cracking up at their PP. They always seemed to over think it. Also, 4 of the 17 goals the Avs scored against Minnesota were PP goals. Which isn't too bad but not deadly.

I think that they scored 6 pp goals.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I think this is because the Avs beat the #3 seed who was the top team in the division and the Wings seemed to struggle against the #8 seed who had 2 of their top forwards out in a game they nearly lost.

No doubt, but they went to overtime 3 out of the six games and I think that the Preds played way above their 8th seed and had to just to get into the play offs. They were on fire the last 15-20 games of the season and I think it played out in the playoffs and Ellis was great in the series. Finally, I think all the fast back to back goals by Hasek made the situation seem worse (not all was Hasek's fault but it made it bad for the Wings).

Edit - Clarify

Edited April 24, 2008 by Frozen-Man