Top 10 players in the world today

[wingfanatic4alltime 32]

Alright i was listening to the postgame show with Art Regner and they did the dave tippet news conference and Tippet said the Red wings have 3 of the top 10 players in the world RIGHT NOW in Lidstrom Datsyuk and Zetterberg. My buddy and me were debating this and i wanted to get your guys thoughts. My top 10 in order are:

1. Alex Ovechkin

2. Nick Lidstrom

3. Evgeni Malkin

4. Henrik Zetterberg

5. Pavel Datsyuk

6. Sidney Crosby

7. Illya Kovalchuck

8. Roberto Luongo

9. Joe Thorton

10. Jerome Iginla

[arnoldbuck 0]

Now, I dont mean to brag, but I think that my name should be runnin around on that list somewhere.

[Rice 42]

Lidstrom's the best. After that it's all debatable.

[seeinred 1,488]

Lidstrom's the best. After that it's all debatable.

These are my thoughts as well. It's not fair that he's not automatically put in that spot only because he's a defenseman.

[Reds4Life 51]

Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin are on the same level..

Ovechkin is the best shooter.

Crosby is the best playmaker.

Malkin is combination of both, better shooter than Crosby, better playmaker than Ovechkin. He is the best player atm imho.

Then Heatley, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Iginla, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gaborik, Lecavalier..

Edited May 20, 2008 by Reds4Life

[Pensfan 0]

1. Sidney Crosby (Can't forget the 120 point season last year. He'd have a repeat if it wasn't for the injury.)

2. Alex Ovechkin (The guy can score, no doubt about it.)

3. Evgeni Malkin (He was second in the league in scoring with 106 points and 47 goals.)

4. Nicholas Lindstrom (Doesn't need explained.)

5. Henrik Zetterberg (Close to Malkin, 92 points and 43 goals.)

6. Pavel Datsyuk

7. Martin Brodeur (He should always be mentioned in the top 10.)

8. Illya Kovalchuck

9. Jerome Iginla

10. Roberto Luongo

Maybe a little Pens bias, but they do have the stats to prove it. I think Malkin will turn out to be the best player in the league down the road though. If he didn't have to share ice with Crosby (unlike Ovechkin), he'd beat out Ovechkin every season.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Pensfan

[Sgt Sharpie 4]

Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin are on the same level..

Ovechkin is the best shooter.

Crosby is the best playmaker.

Malkin is combination of both, better shooter than Crosby, better playmaker than Ovechkin. He is the best player atm imho.

Then Heatley, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Iginla, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gaborik, Lecavalier..

i agree with everything except u left out lids and gaborik is the most overrated player i can think of..

[Reds4Life 51]

i agree with everything except u left out lids and gaborik is the most overrated player i can think of..

I only considered forwards.

It's not possible to compare goalie and forward or forward and dman.

I don't like Gaborik at all, but he is definitely one of the best goalscorers in the NHL.

[puckbags 863]

Now, I dont mean to brag, but I think that my name should be runnin around on that list somewhere.

Thats what I was thinkin about myself, cmon I had 10 goals in 35 games in my beer league, we can all forget about the fact my plus minus was -76. . When it comes to goals I go for quality over quantity!!

[Coolio Mendez 7]

1. Sidney Crosby

2. Jarome Iginla

3. Alex Ovechkin

4. Joseph Thornton

5. Vincent Lecavalier

6) Nicklas Lidstrom

7) Evgeni Malkin

8) Ilya Kovalchuck

9) Pavel Datsyuk

10) Henrik Zetterberg

Edited May 20, 2008 by Coolio Mendez

[WiNgSowN 0]

i agree with everything except u left out lids and gaborik is the most overrated player i can think of..

[/quote

He's overrated when it comes to the playoffs. I think he had 1 point the whole entire series vs. Colorado. Pretty rubbish.

[Anomalously 0]

1. Sidney Crosby (Can't forget the 120 point season last year. He'd have a repeat if it wasn't for the injury.)

2. Alex Ovechkin (The guy can score, no doubt about it.)

3. Evgeni Malkin (He was second in the league in scoring with 106 points and 47 goals.)

4. Nicholas Lindstrom (Doesn't need explained.)

5. Henrik Zetterberg (Close to Malkin, 92 points and 43 goals.)

6. Pavel Datsyuk

7. Martin Brodeur (He should always be mentioned in the top 10.)

8. Illya Kovalchuck

9. Jerome Iginla

10. Roberto Luongo

Maybe a little Pens bias, but they do have the stats to prove it. I think Malkin will turn out to be the best player in the league down the road though. If he didn't have to share ice with Crosby (unlike Ovechkin), he'd beat out Ovechkin every season.

Yeah, probably a little Penguins bias. If we're doing pure offensive stats, Ovechkin was the man this season. If he would have had a repeat barring his injury, why was Ovy's PPG and GPG stats higher? Putting 65 in the net means he's best offensively, at least for now.

You act as if sharing ice with a talented hockey player is a bad thing. It's not. Look at the Penguins the last time they went to the ECF: Lemieux, Jagr, Kovalev, Straka, and Lang... they were offensively phenomenal, all of them, Lemieux was on fire, Jagr led the league, and KSL were all top 10. The problem with Malkin is that he's young and cocky. He'll get riled very easily, he gets frustrated... he's a lock for runner-up for the Hart, but he is overrated. Consider his FO% this season -- under 40% and almost 1,000 draws taken. It's always a subjective stat, but his giveaways to takeaways ratio isn't superb, and I'll tell you why: he'll try his Russian dangle the whole way through the neutral zone, and he gets beat. Not always, and I love that he's creative, it's great to watch, but guys take the body in the neutral zone and Evgeni can cough up the puck at inopportune times because he tries to get too fancy when he shouldn't.

Datsyuk has 76 more takeaways than giveaways. Malkin is -7 in that regard. Datsyuk 54.4% of 833 faceoffs. 39.3% of 890 for Malkin. Datsyuk +41. Malkin +16. Malkin is a high-class talent but still rough around the edges. Datsyuk wasn't even in the league at a comparable age to Malkin.

I think it's an offensive battle between Ovechkin, Malkin, and Crosby, and it will remain one for a decade. In that regard, pick these three out of a hat, you've got 1-2-3.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk comprise a checking line that put up a combined 21 goals, 40 points in 16 games this postseason. +15 and +12 in 16. Different players, same ballpark.

Lidstrom is the epitome of consistency. Iginla is Ovechkin without the flash. THE most consistent power forward in the NHL.

Anyway, I'm not going to make a list. I agree with the players you put on your list, but I get the feeling you discount the Wings' superstars as less worthy by a glimpse of statistics, where goals, assists, and points are the only statistics necessary to come to conclusion about a man's game.

[Doggy 130]

1. Crosby

2. Lidstrom

3. Ovechkin

4. Zetterberg

5. Datsyuk

6. Iginla

7. Malkin

8. Brodeur

9. Alfredsson

10. Thornton

Anyone who puts anyone other than Ovechkin or Lidstrom ahead of Crosby is hopelessly biased. They're the only two I'll hear arguments for why they would be better.

The OP has him at 6 - that's a joke. I'm totally over people's stupid ratings of Crosby. Hate him if you want - just don't let it blind you.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

1. Ovechkin

2. Crosby

3. Lidstrom

4. Iginla

5. Zetterberg

6. Malkin

7. Datsyuk

8. Lecavilier

9. Luongo

10. Kovalchuk

[Datsyerberger 279]

So yea, its always the top goal scorers/highest points that make the top of the list, unless someone is so insanely, inarguably good (Lidstrom) that you'd look like a fool for not putting him in the top 3. That's always been a point of annoyance for me; defensive talent just doesn't look as pretty I guess. It's also hard to work goaltenders into this list, and as I feel I can't make a proper placement for them in this list I may leave them out. As it stands, and call me a homer, but here's my list:

1. Lidstrom (This should be the no-brainer of the list)

This is where it starts to get rocky and very debatable.

2/3. Tie: Datsyuk/Zetterberg. This is where I may get called a homer, but let's face it: This is THE Dynamic Duo right now. Not only are both of them not that far behind the point leaders (they are, in fact, among the point leaders in the NHL), but they're also both Selke finalists and very dominant defensively. Both fare quite well in the faceoff circle, Datsyuk's lead in takeaways is disgusting. Let's not forget their dominating +/-. In my opinion, the scariest pair of players in the league. I'd put Datsyuk ahead of Zetterberg, just a little, but they can hardly be mentioned separate.

And it gets even harder from here.

4: I'm giving it to Ovechkin. Monstrous goal-scoring talent, huge GPG/PGG as Anom pointed out. Also has a strong body and isn't afraid to throw it around. What's not to like there?

5. Iguan.. Iginla. Again, I'm agreeing with Anom on his analysis here... highly consistent power forward, stats to prove it. Has the defensive ability to go along with his high point totals.

6. Sidney Crosby. Premiere playmaker, and he's not even old enough to drink legally in the US yet. Still has his entire career ahead of him, short of turning into a total flop (which is horribly unlikely) or a terrible accident, we can expect great things out of him. Young captain for his team.

7. Zdeno Chara. Huge defenseman, and not only does he use his size well and play an excellent defensive game, but he's also a serious powerhouse in the defensive scoring department and an excellent team leader. Not quite at Lidstrom's level, but regardless one of the best defensemen in the NHL at the moment.

8. Evgeni Malkin. Another one of those point totalling phenomenoms. He definitely has some faults now but he's regardless a serious offensive force. Crosby is ahead of him on maturity now, but it's going to be very interesting to see how he turns out once he matures more.

The list starts to get even shakier past this point. The decisions start to become more opinionated, to me, from here, and all the more debatable. I'll finish it up to 10 anyhow.

9. Joe Thornton. Assist leader. Also uses his size well, and is a very physical forward.. and quite good at it, only I think around 60 PIM despite his physicality, 21+ min. ATOI and 82 GP (season). Also very dominant in the faceoff circle, in the top 5.

10. Phaneuf. What the hell, had to work the other Norris finalist in here. The guy is a beast, hits massively, and is also a great offensive defenseman. And seeing is his career is so young, we're likely only going to see better things out of him. Though hopefully he can get his PIM down a bit, if he can get his PIM to around 100 mins with how he plays right now that'd be spectacular.

So there's my list, for what it's worth. Yea, I can just see Crosby not being in the top 5 stirring a kettle of s***, but to me it's the honest truth right now. He's a spectacular player and he's going to develop into something huge, but he still has some maturity issues to work out, which would lead to him getting frustrated less easily, spending more time on the ice and less in the box. Hopefully his defensive game will only get better as well; someone with as much hockey sense as he has should, in my opinion, spend some of the effort on doubling their defensive game even if it means losing 10 points per season. Dats and Z show how well that works. I also feel that because he's north american and most of the rest of my top 10 are European, and because of his young age as well, he gets a bit more of the spotlight than he should as compared to the others, but eh.. a singular face is always going to be chosen. Malkin has much the same issues to work on as Crosby, but especially needs to work in the faceoff circle... he's pretty brutal there.

[Doggy 130]

So yea, its always the top goal scorers/highest points that make the top of the list, unless someone is so insanely, inarguably good (Lidstrom) that you'd look like a fool for not putting him in the top 3. That's always been a point of annoyance for me; defensive talent just doesn't look as pretty I guess. It's also hard to work goaltenders into this list, and as I feel I can't make a proper placement for them in this list I may leave them out. As it stands, and call me a homer, but here's my list:

1. Lidstrom (This should be the no-brainer of the list)

This is where it starts to get rocky and very debatable.

2/3. Tie: Datsyuk/Zetterberg. This is where I may get called a homer, but let's face it: This is THE Dynamic Duo right now. Not only are both of them not that far behind the point leaders (they are, in fact, among the point leaders in the NHL), but they're also both Selke finalists and very dominant defensively. Both fare quite well in the faceoff circle, Datsyuk's lead in takeaways is disgusting. Let's not forget their dominating +/-. In my opinion, the scariest pair of players in the league. I'd put Datsyuk ahead of Zetterberg, just a little, but they can hardly be mentioned separate.

And it gets even harder from here.

4: I'm giving it to Ovechkin. Monstrous goal-scoring talent, huge GPG/PGG as Anom pointed out. Also has a strong body and isn't afraid to throw it around. What's not to like there?

5. Iguan.. Iginla. Again, I'm agreeing with Anom on his analysis here... highly consistent power forward, stats to prove it. Has the defensive ability to go along with his high point totals.

6. Sidney Crosby. Premiere playmaker, and he's not even old enough to drink legally in the US yet. Still has his entire career ahead of him, short of turning into a total flop (which is horribly unlikely) or a terrible accident, we can expect great things out of him. Young captain for his team.

7. Zdeno Chara. Huge defenseman, and not only does he use his size well and play an excellent defensive game, but he's also a serious powerhouse in the defensive scoring department and an excellent team leader. Not quite at Lidstrom's level, but regardless one of the best defensemen in the NHL at the moment.

8. Evgeni Malkin. Another one of those point totalling phenomenoms. He definitely has some faults now but he's regardless a serious offensive force. Crosby is ahead of him on maturity now, but it's going to be very interesting to see how he turns out once he matures more.

The list starts to get even shakier past this point. The decisions start to become more opinionated, to me, from here, and all the more debatable. I'll finish it up to 10 anyhow.

9. Joe Thornton. Assist leader. Also uses his size well, and is a very physical forward.. and quite good at it, only I think around 60 PIM despite his physicality, 21+ min. ATOI and 82 GP (season). Also very dominant in the faceoff circle, in the top 5.

10. Phaneuf. What the hell, had to work the other Norris finalist in here. The guy is a beast, hits massively, and is also a great offensive defenseman. And seeing is his career is so young, we're likely only going to see better things out of him. Though hopefully he can get his PIM down a bit, if he can get his PIM to around 100 mins with how he plays right now that'd be spectacular.

So there's my list, for what it's worth. Yea, I can just see Crosby not being in the top 5 stirring a kettle of s***, but to me it's the honest truth right now. He's a spectacular player and he's going to develop into something huge, but he still has some maturity issues to work out, which would lead to him getting frustrated less easily, spending more time on the ice and less in the box. Hopefully his defensive game will only get better as well; someone with as much hockey sense as he has should, in my opinion, spend some of the effort on doubling their defensive game even if it means losing 10 points per season. Dats and Z show how well that works. I also feel that because he's north american and most of the rest of my top 10 are European, and because of his young age as well, he gets a bit more of the spotlight than he should as compared to the others, but eh.. a singular face is always going to be chosen. Malkin has much the same issues to work on as Crosby, but especially needs to work in the faceoff circle... he's pretty brutal there.

I stopped reading when you said the world's top three players are in Detroit. Come on. Try to be a tiny bit unbiased. I just can't respect your list in any way because of that.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Doggy

[GiantRobot 0]

Lidstrom

Ovechkin

Crosby

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

Malkin

Iginla

Lecavalier

Heatley

Luongo

[seeinred 1,488]

I stopped reading when you said the world's top three players are in Detroit. Come on. Try to be a tiny bit unbiased. I just can't respect your list in any way because of that.

Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he's biased. He gave reasons for why he thinks they're the best. They're definitely not bad reasons either.

[Reds4Life 51]

Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he's biased. He gave reasons for why he thinks they're the best. They're definitely not bad reasons either.

Exactly.

Top10 players in the World, I do think Zata, Pav and Lids are there, are so close you can put any of them ahead of other.

It just comes down to who's hot and who's in a slump.

[Doggy 130]

Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he's biased.

Agreed, this is very true. The fact that he thinks Detroit has the top three players in the world makes him biased. If he can find one person in the world to agree with him that is NOT a Wings fan - then it might be a valid opinion. I sincerely doubt that such a being exists.

[Doggy 130]

Exactly.

Top10 players in the World, I do think Zata, Pav and Lids are there, are so close you can put any of them ahead of other.

It just comes down to who's hot and who's in a slump.

Who's hot and who's in a slump? Does this mean Franzen is top 10? What about Ozzie? Maybe Drake would crack the top 20 with his performance in game 6.

[Reds4Life 51]

Who's hot and who's in a slump? Does this mean Franzen is top 10? What about Ozzie? Maybe Drake would crack the top 20 with his performance in game 6.

You obviously did not read my post carefully. I ment, players, who are elite, are very close.

Ovechkin is not better than Crosby on every given day. Sometimes he is, sometimes he is not.

The same goes for Zetterberg and Malkin, sometimes one outplays the other one and vice versa.

etc.

One could put Datsyuk and Zetterberg ahead of Crosby and it is not biased at all.

Crosby definitely is not way better, they are very close.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Reds4Life

[Doggy 130]

You obviously did not read my post carefully. I ment, players, who are elite, are very close.

Ovechkin is not better than Crosby on every given day. Sometimes he is, sometimes he is not.

The same goes for Zetterberg and Malkin, sometimes one outplays the other one and vice versa.

etc.

One could put Datsyuk and Zetterberg ahead of Crosby and it is not biased at all.

Crosby definitely is not way better, they are very close.

Okay but they're not that close. I've never heard anyone argue that Datsyuk or Zetterberg is the world's best. Ovechkin, Lidstrom and Crosby have. They're the ones that are close. That's my opinion anyway. You can disagree with it but it would make you wrong.

Just kidding.

... not really.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Doggy

[seeinred 1,488]

Agreed, this is very true. The fact that he thinks Detroit has the top three players in the world makes him biased. If he can find one person in the world to agree with him that is NOT a Wings fan - then it might be a valid opinion. I sincerely doubt that such a being exists.

I still don't think that makes him biased. There probably have been times where arguably the 3 best players were on the same team.

And 1 person? I promise I could find 1 Maybe not a million though.

[Datsyerberger 279]

That, unfortunately, does make it look more biased than intended. However, if you will, take Lidstrom out of the equation. I consider that one sort of a no brainer given, and if you say "Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL" to most hockey fans, while some may not agree on any given day, none of them are probably going to look at you funny. Let's face it, if I hadn't put Lidstrom at #1 noone here would have taken my list seriously XD

In that case, it comes down to me having made my top 2 choices both Red Wings. Is that feasible on the top-seeded team in the NHL, which has had them both for president's trophies and one of them with a cup (even if it was that 2002 team..)? My choices were made mostly with statistical comparison.. and the fact that the topic is "in the world today" .. not "in the world 5-10 years from now when Crosby has fully developed and is a deity." Given that Datsyuk is among the top in the league for points, and not only that but leads in +/-, is a Selke finalist, leads in takeaways by a ridiculous margin and has a huge takeaway:giveaway ratio, not to mention the absolute fits he can give to other players with the moves he puts on, he definitely makes my top pick. Maybe that's because I'm a Wings fan, but because I'm a Wings fan I recognize the value of defense, not just point totals.

Let's do a little mathematical comparison. Malkin had 106 pts in the season and 16+ Datsyuk 97 points and 41+. That's a discrepancy of only 9 points, with 25 extra points against. It's an admirable payoff... 97 looks less impressive than a triple digit like 106, but someone really in the know knows that power of that large difference in +/-. I'm going to assume that Crosby's stats would be fairly similar to Malkin's had he had a full season, with less goals and more assists, maybe around 120 points again, but lower +/- just going by his current season stats.

How about another important factor? Discipline. This is one neither Malkin and Crosby have quite learned yet, Malkin around 80 PIM this season and Crosby, going by his GP, probably woulda had around 70. Meanwhile, Pasha is at 20 (which is a ! given his ATOI) and Zets at 36 or something like that. These guys aren't enforcers, they're top line scorers and play makers. They don't need to be spending their time in the box, they need to be on the ice. And that is something that D and Z do better than either of those 2.

Some people would argue part of the reason that Dats and Z have higher +/- than either of those two is because they're playing with a more defensively solid line and defensemen. I certainly wouldn't disagree. However, many of these people are the same people who would argue that the Pens team D is almost as good as Det's. That's silly.. pick one. I would also point out that the fact that both Dats and Z are there are part of what makes the defense so strong (and thus why it shows in their +/-).

I would rank Zets just a bit behind Dats.. few less points, bit less +/-, a few more PIMs.. but the combination of both is still better than almost anyone in the league! 5th in +/-, 6th in points.. thats a combination outdone only by Dats. Keep in mind Zets also has 7 less GP than all the other point leaders. Let's supposed he managed a point a game (which would be under par for him), with 4 goals. Thats 7 points. That would put him at 99 points, which would put him at 3rd. That would also tie him at 4th in goals. Since we're rating him a little below par on his goals, we'll say he managed 4+ in those 7 games he missed. That suddenly puts him at 3rd there as well. (to be fair, #s 2 (Lids), 3, and 4 all are down a handful of games, too). That's all hypothetical, and regardless of that 6th in points and 5th in +/- is still damned impressive.

In fact, it's impressive enough to be my overall 2nd pick. A close, VERY close 3rd is Ovechkin. Top goal scorer, top points, 7th in +/- and only 40 PIM.. and tack a great attitude on to that. Were I ranking this based 100% on individual stats, I would place Ovie above Z and below Dats. However, because Dats is (in my eyes) the clear winner of the list, and Zets a clear top 5 choice, and because they play together with such amazing chemistry, I decided it fitting that they share a tie at the top of my list. The chemistry they have is exceedingly rare.

And a very close 4th pick for me is Iginla, coming in right behind Ovie. 3rd in points, 3rd in goals, 9th in +/- (which is sorta misleading, considering that 5 and 7 are ties). Enormously consistent player. Higher PIM than those above at 83, but given the sort of game he plays, that's more warranted than Malkin's 80.

And so on. I think the rest of my list was pretty well explained but I figured I'd go into additional details on my higher tier choices. The fact is I pointed out how close the choices were. Lidstrom is the clear #1, and Dats seems to be the clear #2. Ovie, Iggy, and Z are all REALLY close and are sort of a crapshoot.. because of that I elevate him to a tie with Datsyuk in recognition of their shared accomplishments, and because it's so damned close anyhow.

Unfortunately, it does come out looking biased and homerish.. but then again, being the top seed comes out looking a little biased too, eh? Only on a Red Wings forum would people call you out on trying to be a homer on saying that the top 2/3 players in the league happen to be on the clear top team of the season. (and cup contender)

Why don't Dats and Z get as much recognition as say, AO and the Kid? Any number of reasons can be given for these, however, I think the biggest is point totals. They always look more impressive to the casual fan, goals are all nice and shiny. Limiting goals scored against is also important, but point stats ALWAYS stand out more in games with points. The most well known names in football are quarterbacks, the most well known names in basketball are the big goal scorers (Jordan, etc), the most well known names in baseball are the guys with all the home runs. In hockey, the most well known names are those with the highest goals and point totals... Gretzky.. hell, even down here the sports enthusiasts know who Howe is... Jagr, Lemieux. On the other hand, say "Bobby Orr" or "Nicklas Lidstrom" or "Scott Niedermayer" to the same people and you'll likely get a "gesundheit!" And god help you if you mention big goalies, Sawchuk or Brodeur won't get you anywhere. Goals and point totals are always what have marketed best to casual fans and always will be.. thats why so many more people would know of Crosby, and thus think him as the best instantly.

Another part of that is another media thing. Crosby is north american. They're marketing to a north american market. Also throw the fact in that his skill is phenomenal for his age. It's like Gretzky all over again, which the league is quite happy with because Gretzky is about the only thing people who otherwise don't know a damned thing about hockey do know. Malkin gets a pardon for being European because he's Sid's sidekick buddy-buddy. If he were putting up his current stats on a different team than Sid, he'd be getting no more media than AO.. which, while still being quite a lot, isn't as much as Crosby gets.. even though they're all very arguably of the same or very close to the same caliber.

But anyhow, this has become longer than I intended so I'll leave it all at that. Hell, I'm the guy that makes a case for Hasek possibly being the #1 goaltender of all time (I reeeeally wish he would have been on a better team for the majority of his career so we could have seen how that would have turned out), and Osgood being a possible top 10 by the end of his career.. so what the hell do I know? Everyone knows that Dom's past his prime (which instantly nulls any past achievements or skill), and furthermore, that Osgood is lazy and he sucks.

Edited May 20, 2008 by The Wheeled Winger