Manoir 70 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I know that's what the draft is meant to do. I'm just saying it's not fair to other teams. Suppose there are 2 teams, one has been last overall for 2 years and has picked #1 for those 2 years and the other has been middle-of-the-pack and consequently drafted in the middle of the 1st round. The last place team now potentially has 2 franchise players while the other team is probably going to be getting an average player. Why should the last place team be given that advantage considering there is a cap now so they don't have an excuse that other teams spend more? You want to get better, make a trade or find some players in later rounds. That will show skill on the part of that last place organization. Anyone can keep on accumulating top 5 picks and for sure one day they'll get better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Can someone explain to me how the Penguins franchise deserves any credit? They had money issues so they couldn't field a competitive team. They get a bunch of top 5 picks and now they are a good team. How does that take any skill? I have much more respect for a team like Philly that signed free agents and made trades to get better and made some great late round picks and went form last place to the final four in 1 year. Because it takes more than 5 good players to make a conference champion team. Of the 19 players appearing in Game 6 against the Flyers: 5 were Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, Staal, and Whitney, the players you seem to think are the only ones doing anything. 6 were drafted in positions other than top-5 (Kennedy, Letang, Malone, Orpik, Scuderi, Talbot.) 4 were traded for (Dupuis, Hossa, Gill, Laraque) 4 were signed as free agents (Gonchar, Hall, Ruutu, Sykora) So that's 5 that were "handed" to them and 14 that were not. Why would you not give them credit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-Dub 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 So tell me this, how does Pittsburgh not deserve any credit, but Detroit does? They are one in the same when you look at the success stories, since the cap. Good drafting, smart trading, and the right UFA signings. Amen! Someone seems to have more of a personal bone to pick with the Pens.... I for one am glad to see their franchise, at the brink of being sold to some kindergarten fluff town in Cali or Oregon staying in Pittsburg, turning things around, and now being in the SC finals. If that ain't a good-feel story, what is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-Dub 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Anyone can keep on accumulating top 5 picks and for sure one day they'll get better. If you can call the Detroit Lions and have them say that with a straight face, no laughing, or even a giggle, I give you five bucks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Firstly, I'd like to say: Pens fans, please don't think that this thread in any way shape or form represents our fan base's views on your organization. I have limitless respect for the Pens franchise as a whole, and it is a miracle in itself that it is still in existence, thanks to the heroics of Mario Lemeuix. Secondly, the thought of a 1 in 30 lottery is unbelievable, how can a team finish last in the league, and only have 3% chance of getting the top pick, while the defending champions would get the same pick. Imagine if such a system existed, and the wings had got Crosby, they would have become a hockey monopoly, and fans in smaller markets would not be interested in seeing their teams continue losing. The Salary Cap Era is designed around parity, and what you are proposing would diminish every aspect of that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manoir 70 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Credit is due because Pittsburgh drafted well. Look at the Blue Jackets. Someone else pointed out they haven't drafted lower than 8th, EVER!! What do they have to show for it? Nash and Zherdev. Zherdev isn't even a PPG player. The Pens have made great use of their picks, while not trading away their future for a quick. They can't be 'blamed' for drafting Crosby, remember the Wings had just as much of an opportunity to get Crosby as the Pens did. Literally the ball just didn't drop in Detroit's favor. So tell me this, how does Pittsburgh not deserve any credit, but Detroit does? They are one in the same when you look at the success stories, since the cap. Good drafting, smart trading, and the right UFA signings. The Columbus example does not hold. To my knowledge they have had only 2 top 5 picks in recent times and only one was #1 overall(Nash) and the other was #4(Zherdev). Pittsburgh has had 4 with 2#1 overall(Flkeury,Crosby), and 2#2 overall(Malkin, Staal). You can even make a case that Pittsburgh hasn't even drafted that well, they took JOrdan Staal over Toews and Fleury over Eric Staal. My point is no one has had that many top 5 picks in succession and they got lucky that those drafts had a lot of good top end talent so it was hard to screw up a top 2 pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imisssergei 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 The Columbus example does not hold. To my knowledge they have had only 2 top 5 picks in recent times and only one was #1 overall(Nash) and the other was #4(Zherdev). Pittsburgh has had 4 with 2#1 overall(Flkeury,Crosby), and 2#2 overall(Malkin, Staal). You can even make a case that Pittsburgh hasn't even drafted that well, they took JOrdan Staal over Toews and Fleury over Eric Staal. My point is no one has had that many top 5 picks in succession and they got lucky that those drafts had a lot of good top end talent so it was hard to screw up a top 2 pick. First I think you are misunderstanding something. It's a draft lottery. Simply finishing last does not 100% you get the first overall pick. I believe it's the bottom 4 or 5 teams that are in the lottery with the worst team have the best odds of winning, and no team can fall more than like 3 spots. Meaning if the Pens finish last, the worst pick they can get is 4th. Second, Columbus does hold, in fact they are a perfect example of what poor drafting looks like. Finally, the Pens traded up to get Fluery. They need to soildify the most important position in hockey, goaltender. Fleury was the closest thing to a can't miss prospect as it gets for a goalie. As for Staal, he wasn't that hyped. Everyone was talking about Erik Johnson. The Pens wanted him, but the Blues took him. So they took the next guy on their draft board. Keep in mind that the Pens already had two top centers in Crosby and Malkin. Staal fits the 3rd line center or 2nd line wing role much better than Toews could fit 1st or 2nd line wing role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icteria virens 11 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 come on boys and girls, Sidney Crosby and Malkin were 2 of the most can't miss prospects to be drafted in recent times. It was a no brainer who they'd take. And having those 2 makes FA's want to come to your team thereby making it easier to build a team. If they can be this good the next 15 years I'll be impressed. (you know, like the red wings have been over the last 15 years) It's amazing this line of reasoning is coming from RW fans who've seen their team be consistently good for so long under both systems. Geesh, I wonder how many of you guys are really RW fans. You sure don't act like it. It is more impressive to get to the conf. finals after having finished so poorly like Philly did last year. Sorry,, it just is. Who in the hockey world wasn't predicting SC greatness for Pitt. since they got crosby and malkin? Again, when they can keep it up for 15 years, now that would be impressive, look at your own teams success first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manoir 70 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Finally, someone who gets it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NHLrules? 32 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 While I give the Penguins alot of credit, the Eastern Conference is a mess. Dallas, Anaheim, Calgary all would have been in the conference finals over anyone in the Conference except maybe the Penguins. Ranger - suck Philly -- really sucks Montreal --cmon Ottawa -- classic playoff suck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaKineMaui 8 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I have limitless respect for the Pens franchise as a whole, and it is a miracle in itself that it is still in existence, thanks to the heroics of Mario Lemeuix. The name Maria Lemucks and the word heroics have no business in the same sentence. He quit the league. He's a quitter. Watch out for the quitter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThreeRiversFan 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 The name Maria Lemucks and the word heroics have no business in the same sentence. He quit the league. He's a quitter. Watch out for the quitter. I see this thread has brought out the most intelligent Detroit "fans" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Finally, someone who gets it. When practically the entire board disagrees with you (and the one person who does "get it" is Princess over there) that's not really a good thing. You still didn't answer the question: Why don't the Penguins deserve credit for the 14 of 19 players they use that weren't top-5 draft picks. Finally, you want to know the truly ironic thing? You know how you were proposing a lottery for the draft that includes all 30 teams? The league has actually done that once. So your idea worked. That's how the Pens got Crosby. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
va Winger 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 This thread isn't worth commenting on. Everyone knows the difficulties Pitt has overcome to get where they are now. A few years back they were close to being moved elsewhere. I think their story is a great one ! and I hope they will be competitive for years to come...............this thread is DEAD ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I see this thread has brought out the most intelligent Detroit "fans" I can't speak for what he was saying, but you haven't really had your induction to DKM's sense of humor or extra-unique style, so.....hold off on the criticism for a bit. Sarcasm is sometimes his way. Even if he's 100% serious there, I'll vouch for 'im as someone definitely not to be lumped in with the lesser aspects of society. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reds4Life 51 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Why is this still open? OP is obviously trying to bash Penguins. Ridiculous thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThreeRiversFan 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I can't speak for what he was saying, but you haven't really had your induction to DKM's sense of humor or extra-unique style, so.....hold off on the criticism for a bit. Sarcasm is sometimes his way. Even if he's 100% serious there, I'll vouch for 'im as someone definitely not to be lumped in with the lesser aspects of society. Fine...I'll back off... I DO understand the good natured banter...the emotionally attachment to one's team....trading barbs with rival fans....all in good fun.... LOL...we NEED to kill this interminable gap waiting for game 1!! But... Attacking Mario Lemieux...for God's sake.....even in the Photoshop thread...lumping #66 in the "*** bashing Crosby" pics (which are completely classless horsecrap IMHO)...is just beyond screwed up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiantRobot 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Because it takes more than 5 good players to make a conference champion team. Of the 19 players appearing in Game 6 against the Flyers: 5 were Malkin, Crosby, Fleury, Staal, and Whitney, the players you seem to think are the only ones doing anything. 6 were drafted in positions other than top-5 (Kennedy, Letang, Malone, Orpik, Scuderi, Talbot.) 4 were traded for (Dupuis, Hossa, Gill, Laraque) 4 were signed as free agents (Gonchar, Hall, Ruutu, Sykora) This thread is crazy, as is the point that Pittsburgh deserves no credit, but realistically without Sid the Kid and Geno, it doesn't matter who they traded for or signed. So while it definitely takes more than 5 players to make a championship caliber team, without those 5 players, they aren't a championship caliber team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Fine...I'll back off... I DO understand the good natured banter...the emotionally attachment to one's team....trading barbs with rival fans....all in good fun.... LOL...we NEED to kill this interminable gap waiting for game 1!! But... Attacking Mario Lemieux...for God's sake.....even in the Photoshop thread...lumping #66 in the "*** bashing Crosby" pics (which are completely classless horsecrap IMHO)...is just beyond screwed up. Very true, if a Pens fan did the same with an Yzerman pic, this board would freak out!!!! I don't mean holy s*** I won 50 bucks on a scratch ticket freak out, I mean I just found out my girlfriend is a leaving me for a friend because I spend too much time on LGW Freak out!!! LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SidneyCrosby Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Please don't forget your helmet before getting on the bus today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThreeRiversFan 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Please don't forget your helmet before getting on the bus today. O......K........... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SidneyCrosby Report post Posted May 21, 2008 The name Maria Lemucks and the word heroics have no business in the same sentence. He quit the league. He's a quitter. Watch out for the quitter. Post by post, Redwings fans sink to the intelligence level of Rangers and Flyers fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThreeRiversFan 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) Post by post, Redwings fans sink to the intelligence level of Rangers and Flyers fan. I cannot agree with you here... There will always be some like this, but from what Ive experienced here...this is a great community Edited May 21, 2008 by ThreeRiversFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Scooter 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I cannot agree with you here... There will always be some like this, but from what Ive experienced here...this is a great community Who are these Penguins you speak of? (kidding/kidding!) I think it's great having Pens fans on the boards, especially with 3 more days to go until Game 1. Otherwise it would be nothing but Wings in 5, Wings in 6, Ozzie Rules, Zetterberg Rules, when is Franzen gonna play? You guys help keep it from getting quite stale! ps- And yes, we have dorks on the boards , but i just ignore them like I do my wife when the Wings are playing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pens66 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 I guess there's reading, then there's reading comprehension. Pens66: We also have a few people on our boards that like to create an argument when there is none, no? Apparently. All I've done the whole thread is agree with people. My entire point was to the OP that if every team had to build with low draft picks alone, a lot of franchises would be in trouble. I did nothing but praise the Wings for the job they've done with this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
