2008 NHL Awards Ceremony Thread (GDT)

[Kira 451]

like I said, it comes down to interpretation of the award.

To me, his leading the team in points shouldn't really factor in, as it's about embodying the defensive aspects of the game. The takeaways are crazy good. And his plus minus is great obviously, but he plays on a strong defensive team on a super talented line. For me things like PK are a huge factor. Dats is strong on it, but not even the go to guy on his team.

Like I said, I'm happy got recognition because he's a great player, but I just personally think the takeaway stat got too much weight, when there's more to the defensive forward than that.

Who the hell are you, Don Cherry going under a nom de plume??? Give the guy credit - he worked his ass off for that award.

[Kira 451]

Kira are you hot?

Dear boy, I am happily married...older than you and I've probably forgotten more things than a lot of people will ever know.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

GvA/TO ratio:

Zetterberg: -6

Datsyuk: +76

Blocked shots:

Zetterberg: 16

Datsyuk: 42

[Kira 451]

Didn't mean to post the same thing twice. I must have been at the same party Pasha was at.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Kira

[Vladiator 116]

Looking forward to seeing the picture with all of the trophies awarded from this season together.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Who the hell are you, Don Cherry going under a nom de plume??? Give the guy credit - he worked his ass off for that award.

Good lord. God forbid I criticize your angel. Yes, it's me Don Cherry. You should see the suit I'm wearing right now.

Datsyuk is an incredible talent. He can stickhandle in a phonebooth, embarrass goalies on breakaways, make passes where you don't even understand how they ended up on a player's stick, catch unsuspecting players and knock them on their ass. I give him credit for all that and much more.

But when you're talking about the Selke, all I think is that *gasp* he was not the best in the league, and too much weight was given to his takeaway stat. As I said, it comes down to interpretation of the award. For me, takeaways are great but not the be all end all. In fact, a really good illustration of defensive forward happened this playoffs. If it's the Stanley Cup finals and your team is on the short end of a 5 on 3, you absolutely need to keep the puck out of your net and you're picking a forward to put on the ice, who do you put out there? Your absolute best defensive forward. Datsyuk would be a very good choice, but he's not even the top choice on his team. And furthermore, as I said, I think Madden was more deserving. He takes key faceoffs, he kills penalties, he blocks shots. He better embodies the defensive aspects of the game.

To me, that's the Selke.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to pick a player for my team between Madden and Datsyuk, it's not even close. It's Dats by a landslide. but that's not what I'm talking about here.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

to be fair Dats honestly impressed more during the regular season defensively

Z was a monster in the playoffs, but also in a lot of those 5-3's Babcock put out Z-Lids-Kronner, a smart move but I'm not at all certain that Datsyuk couldn't of done just as well.

If voting was done after the playoffs there's no question that Z would have won it. As it is he finished 3rd in voting, probably because of the time he spent injured as well.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

GvA/TO ratio:

Zetterberg: -6

Datsyuk: +76

Blocked shots:

Zetterberg: 16

Datsyuk: 42

Time on PK per game:

Z : 2:09 (3rd on the team)

Dats : 1:47 (7th on the team)

Madden: 3:35 (1st on his team)

Madden had 49 hits, 50 blocked shots, and a 53% FO percentage when he took the lionshare of his teams faceoffs.

Dats had a great 54% on faceoffs, but only took 833 of them, 3rd on the team. Madden took 1463 faceoffs. PK, hits, blocked shots, faceoffs.

As I've said ad nauseum, if he's the best defensive player in the league, why is Datsyuk 7th in PK time on his own team? Why is he not the first choice for 5-on-3s? The common response is that it's not his primary role. Which I agree with and which is why I think there is a better choice for the award.

These are not knocks on Datsyuk, but I'm trying to have a league wide perspective here. he is not, in my opinion, the top choice for best defensive forward in the league, though he is absolutely one of the best forwards in the league. it's just an opinion.

Again, flame away. I've stated my case and await the abuse.

[norrisnick 1]

Datsyuk is by far the best defensive forward on the offensive side of the red line. But as he gets closer and closer to his own net he gets more and more passive. He sits back (hence the blocked shot edge) whereas Z goes in full-on attack mode once the puck crosses center ice and prevents a lot of shots before they happen. Z exhibits relentless pressure on the puck to get the clear and very often a chance going the other way.

Pavel nullifies possession by the opposition usually before it fully gets established coming of their zone. Z nullifies it as they get close to or in our zone. Z is the more traditional defensive forward and Pavel is very unorthodox with his thievery and quick transitions.

It's hard to explain if it doesn't make sense to you, but that's how I see it.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Who the hell are you, Don Cherry going under a nom de plume??? Give the guy credit - he worked his ass off for that award.

Correction: He worked his ass off for the Stanley Cup, and the Selke was given to him in recognition for the player he is.

[hallelujahlogic 1]

Good lord. God forbid I criticize your angel. Yes, it's me Don Cherry. You should see the suit I'm wearing right now.

Datsyuk is an incredible talent. He can stickhandle in a phonebooth, embarrass goalies on breakaways, make passes where you don't even understand how they ended up on a player's stick, catch unsuspecting players and knock them on their ass. I give him credit for all that and much more.

But when you're talking about the Selke, all I think is that *gasp* he was not the best in the league, and too much weight was given to his takeaway stat. As I said, it comes down to interpretation of the award. For me, takeaways are great but not the be all end all. In fact, a really good illustration of defensive forward happened this playoffs. If it's the Stanley Cup finals and your team is on the short end of a 5 on 3, you absolutely need to keep the puck out of your net and you're picking a forward to put on the ice, who do you put out there? Your absolute best defensive forward. Datsyuk would be a very good choice, but he's not even the top choice on his team. And furthermore, as I said, I think Madden was more deserving. He takes key faceoffs, he kills penalties, he blocks shots. He better embodies the defensive aspects of the game.

To me, that's the Selke.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to pick a player for my team between Madden and Datsyuk, it's not even close. It's Dats by a landslide. but that's not what I'm talking about here.

i laughed really hard at this entire paragraph.

[puertoricanWingsfan 5]

Does anyone know which commentator was given the Greasy Mullet award, or does that still automatically go to Melrose every year?

[Kira 451]

I think Melrose has the market cornered on that one.

[PashaFan 0]

Grats Pasha!

Edited June 13, 2008 by PashaFan

[DatsMyWings13 4]

Grats Pasha!

Some really good pictures, thanks for posting them.

[zata40 3]

Grats Pasha!

he looks so much better with a helmet on

[Heaton 1]

Datsyuk is by far the best defensive forward on the offensive side of the red line. But as he gets closer and closer to his own net he gets more and more passive. He sits back (hence the blocked shot edge) whereas Z goes in full-on attack mode once the puck crosses center ice and prevents a lot of shots before they happen. Z exhibits relentless pressure on the puck to get the clear and very often a chance going the other way.

Pavel nullifies possession by the opposition usually before it fully gets established coming of their zone. Z nullifies it as they get close to or in our zone. Z is the more traditional defensive forward and Pavel is very unorthodox with his thievery and quick transitions.

It's hard to explain if it doesn't make sense to you, but that's how I see it.

That's the way I see it as well.

[Doggy 130]

I think it speaks volumes about the defensive aspect of this team when the 3rd forward we go to on a 5 on 3 PK wins the Selke award. This team is one of a kind. I'm very proud of both Zetterberg and Datsyuk as well as everyone else.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Time on PK per game:

Z : 2:09 (3rd on the team)

Dats : 1:47 (7th on the team)

Madden: 3:35 (1st on his team)

Madden had 49 hits, 50 blocked shots, and a 53% FO percentage when he took the lionshare of his teams faceoffs.

Dats had a great 54% on faceoffs, but only took 833 of them, 3rd on the team. Madden took 1463 faceoffs. PK, hits, blocked shots, faceoffs.

As I've said ad nauseum, if he's the best defensive player in the league, why is Datsyuk 7th in PK time on his own team? Why is he not the first choice for 5-on-3s? The common response is that it's not his primary role. Which I agree with and which is why I think there is a better choice for the award.

These are not knocks on Datsyuk, but I'm trying to have a league wide perspective here. he is not, in my opinion, the top choice for best defensive forward in the league, though he is absolutely one of the best forwards in the league. it's just an opinion.

Again, flame away. I've stated my case and await the abuse.

Madden is a good player and you of course are welcome to your opinion that he deserved the Selke.

But I would consider a few things from your stats. Madden is on a team that is not as good as the Red Wings. So he may be their best defensive forward and the #1 go to guy for PKs - but that might be because they don't have alot of top forwards anymore (Elias and Langenbrunner are the only ones I even know), let alone defensive ones.

Pavel doesn't take as many faceoffs 'cause the Wings also have guys like Draper who can take alot of draws.

You'd have to switch Madden and Pavel on their respective teams. Would Madden be the #1 guy for PKs, faceoffs, 5-3 kills on the Wings? Probably not because we have better players. Maybe Pavel would get more PK time on the Devils. Speculation only I know.

This is also why it's hard to win the Hart trophy when you're on a Cup winning team. By default the team is full of good players and is more balanced. It's easier to score boatloads of goals when you're on the ice the whole game, have the puck the whole time, and the rest of your team sucks.....

[selkie 10]

he looks so much better with a helmet on

It's not like he's the second coming of Mike Ricci or something. He's an average looking guy who just seems to have a tendency to freeze and make funny faces during staged pictures. (The eyes are pure deer in the headlights) He looks a lot better when he's moving around and not being asked to smile for a camera.

[eva unit zero 271]

Madden is a good player and you of course are welcome to your opinion that he deserved the Selke.

But I would consider a few things from your stats. Madden is on a team that is not as good as the Red Wings. So he may be their best defensive forward and the #1 go to guy for PKs - but that might be because they don't have alot of top forwards anymore (Elias and Langenbrunner are the only ones I even know), let alone defensive ones.

Pavel doesn't take as many faceoffs 'cause the Wings also have guys like Draper who can take alot of draws.

You'd have to switch Madden and Pavel on their respective teams. Would Madden be the #1 guy for PKs, faceoffs, 5-3 kills on the Wings? Probably not because we have better players. Maybe Pavel would get more PK time on the Devils. Speculation only I know.

This is also why it's hard to win the Hart trophy when you're on a Cup winning team. By default the team is full of good players and is more balanced. It's easier to score boatloads of goals when you're on the ice the whole game, have the puck the whole time, and the rest of your team sucks.....

Ultimately...it has to be looked at this way.

Is Dats the best defensive forward on his team?

To answer that question, we have to ask another set of questions.

Is there someone that the Wings prefer to take key faceoffs over Dats at times when Dats is on the ice?

Is there someone who is used ahead of Dats in PK situations?

Henrik Zetterberg and Kris Draper are both valid answers to those questions. Which then creates a new question:

If Datsyuk is not the go-to-guy on key faceoffs or for PK situations, is he the best defensive forward on his team?

And the answer is no.

As far as Madden is concerned?

Dats or Z might be the go-to defensive forward for the Devils if one of them and Madden switched. Madden could be the go-to defensive forward on the Wings if he and Dats or Z switched. But Z is the go to defensive forward in Detroit over Dats.

This is, IMHO, the third time in twelve seasons a Wing has deserved the Selke, and the Selke has gone to a Wing, but the Selke has gone to the WRONG Wing. The other times: 1996 Fedorov won/Yzerman should have and 2004 Draper won/Maltby should have. In all three instances, the guy who won posted better offensive totals and had one of the best years of his career.

[Doggy 130]

Ultimately...it has to be looked at this way.

Is Dats the best defensive forward on his team?

To answer that question, we have to ask another set of questions.

Is there someone that the Wings prefer to take key faceoffs over Dats at times when Dats is on the ice?

Is there someone who is used ahead of Dats in PK situations?

Henrik Zetterberg and Kris Draper are both valid answers to those questions. Which then creates a new question:

If Datsyuk is not the go-to-guy on key faceoffs or for PK situations, is he the best defensive forward on his team?

And the answer is no.

As far as Madden is concerned?

Dats or Z might be the go-to defensive forward for the Devils if one of them and Madden switched. Madden could be the go-to defensive forward on the Wings if he and Dats or Z switched. But Z is the go to defensive forward in Detroit over Dats.

This is, IMHO, the third time in twelve seasons a Wing has deserved the Selke, and the Selke has gone to a Wing, but the Selke has gone to the WRONG Wing. The other times: 1996 Fedorov won/Yzerman should have and 2004 Draper won/Maltby should have. In all three instances, the guy who won posted better offensive totals and had one of the best years of his career.

Well, I think you'd be the only person to put Maltby above Draper that season but I agree that Hank is the no. 1 defensive forward on this team.

Either way, I'm happy.

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, I think you'd be the only person to put Maltby above Draper that season but I agree that Hank is the no. 1 defensive forward on this team.

Either way, I'm happy.

Lest you forget...that was the one season Draper was used primarily in a scoring role; he was the second line right winger for a good chunk of the season. From 2001-2004, I would argue that 2004 was the season Draper LEAST deserved the Selke, as he was not used in a shutdown role that year; a role that fell to Maltby much more often. It's IMHO one of the major mistakes Lewis made while he was in charge; using Draper in a scoring role while he used Ray Whitney in a checking role. The Wings probably win even more that year if Whitney was used on the top two lines and Draper is used in a checking role.

Am I really the only person who realized this stuff?

[Doggy 130]

Lest you forget...that was the one season Draper was used primarily in a scoring role; he was the second line right winger for a good chunk of the season. From 2001-2004, I would argue that 2004 was the season Draper LEAST deserved the Selke, as he was not used in a shutdown role that year; a role that fell to Maltby much more often. It's IMHO one of the major mistakes Lewis made while he was in charge; using Draper in a scoring role while he used Ray Whitney in a checking role. The Wings probably win even more that year if Whitney was used on the top two lines and Draper is used in a checking role.

Am I really the only person who realized this stuff?

You can't just make up memories man.