Crazy Trade Idea

[Guest Crymson]

Yeah, they can't keep both those guys anyways. Kopecky,Hudler, Meech or Quincy and a 1st. I think that's a solid trade.

This made me laugh. A 4th-liner who might not crack the lineup next year, a role-playing 3rd-liner, and two unproven prospects who don't rank in anyone's top-ten?

Yes, that's s*** value for a player like Jokinen, who is a steal at his salary and has a place in the top twenty of all forwards in the league. You've got to be kidding. Discarding a bunch of people you don't feel are necessary on the team in exchange for one of the best players in the game ain't going to happen.

Brad Stuart at the time of that trade was nowhere near the player he is now. Wayne Primeau is scrub and had nowhere near the potential as Kopecky does at this stage. Sturm is a decent player and I think Hudler has the potential to be as good if not better than him eventually. So I'll play your game here.

You're using a very bad example, chap. The trade for Thornton is widely considered to have been one of the worst trades in the recent history of the NHL. Boston got nowhere near the value that they traded away.

I'll spell it out for you again: 1st-round draft pick (the absolute last pick in the first round, and draft picks are never, ever a sure bet) + 3rd-line roleplayer + 4th-line grinder in exchange for premier power forward. Not happening.

And sorry, but a draft pick does not spell out anything in the way of potential. Many first-round draft picks have sucked. See Patrik Stefan.

I just found a website that ranks every nhl player. They have Hudler(182) only 20 spots behind Filppula(162).

http://www.thehockeyrating.com/index.php?rank=1

You can check for player rankings by team. It's much easier that way, because the list is huge!

That site is entirely subjective. Regardless of this, it actually works against your point, as you're proposing a trade of #583, #182 and a last-in-the-first-round pick for #42.

Kopecky offers us nothing. If anyone else would be stupid enough to take him, why not unload him and get some benefit? The benefit we'd get from packaging him in a trade would far outweigh the cost.

Need we spell this out to you? If we think a player sucks, it's a good bet that everyone else does too. "He sucks, let's trade him for someone good!" does not work.

To be fair, Florida did make one of the worst trades in recent memory, so who's to say they won't do it again?

But I agree, Filppula, Ericsson and a 1st would be much more feasible.

That trade was Keenan's call, not Martin's. Keenan is known for making very strange blockbuster trades. In any event, he is now gone. Regardless, Florida at least got Bertuzzi out of the deal. At that point, he was a very productive power-forward. They'd get absolute jack out of the deal that the OP suggested, and they'd be dealing their franchise player. This would no doubt go down as the worst trade in decades. Not happening.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Crymson

[Guest Crymson]

Double.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Crymson

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I just read on spector's site that Olli Jokinen is on the trading block. Spector says the asking price is believed to be two young NHL players and a 1st round pick. The value of young players in the Wings system has to be at an all time high right now, amongst GM's around the league. They(GM's) must be thinking: Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Franzen,FIlppula,Helm...."what other gems do these guys have in their system"? So here is my trade proposal.

To Florida

Hudler,Kopecky and this years 1st round pick

To Detroit

Olli Jokinen

Jokinen is singed until the summer of 2010. His salary per season is 5.2 mil.

Thoughts?

I think everybody knows Jokinen is a helluva player, if it were that easy I'd love to have a guy like him on the Wings, but it would take a lot more to get him.

Plus this team just won the Stanley Cup, Hudler is still young and has time to hopefully develop into a more consistent scorer (i.e. not be sporadic all regular season and turning it up in the playoffs)

And I'm not ready to give up on Kopecky yet either due to him being young and the potential to be a consistently aggresively hitting forward. Torn ACLs are a ***** and a half to come back from, but it is very possible of course and he was leading the forwards in hits going into his injury. On the flip side, if you were wanting to do this trade now, Kopecky would garner little trade value because he is just coming off of a major injury and nobody knows yet how he'll respond to the injury.

I have a lot of reservations trying to dramatically change a roster that just won the Stanley Cup unless the team just absolutely falls in the s**tter next season by not making the playoffs or making a respectable playoff run.

Edited June 19, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[betterREDthandead 58]

I just read on spector's site that Olli Jokinen is on the trading block. Spector says the asking price is believed to be two young NHL players and a 1st round pick. The value of young players in the Wings system has to be at an all time high right now, amongst GM's around the league. They(GM's) must be thinking: Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Franzen,FIlppula,Helm...."what other gems do these guys have in their system"? So here is my trade proposal.

To Florida

Hudler,Kopecky and this years 1st round pick

To Detroit

Olli Jokinen

Jokinen is singed until the summer of 2010. His salary per season is 5.2 mil.

Thoughts?

1, it would be tough to fit that trade under the cap, and 2, Florida's GM would slap Kenny in the face if he offered that.

[BlakChamber 8]

And it begins...

[egroen 384]

Hudler is a 2nd line player on at least half the teams in the NHL, and first line PP.

Anyways, where we are with the cap right now, guys like Hudler, Franzen and Filppula are more important than Jokinen... because we can afford two of them for one Jokinen, and combined, they put up more points.

[Casey 145]

I'd be just fine ditching Kopecky, but I'm not at all comfortable getting rid of Hudler or Filppula without some serious consideration. I see too much potential in the latter 2.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Florida has made so many stupid trades over the years, but that would by far be the worst.

They would get a useless player and a 4th liner, plus a late 1st round pick, for a top line forward like Jokinen.

They'll never go for it, but I think it's comical how some people here on LGW wouldn't make this trade if Florida put it on the table. Some of the members here just crack me up with their overrating of Kopecky.

[Frozen-Man 144]

That site is entirely subjective. Regardless of this, it actually works against your point, as you're proposing a trade of #583, #182 and a last-in-the-first-round pick for #42.

I thought you had a very well thought out, cogent, and persuasive post, however, the player ratings on the site are not subjective at all. The ratings are entirely objective. The rating "is an index that is calculated by combining several player statistics such as points scored, plus/minus etc." and then weighted by TOI and other factors. You may disagree with the ratings, the statistics that they chose to use, or the fact that you cannot include intangibles but the ratings are entirely objective. They look at statistics and then apply them across the board to every player in exactly the same manner, thus making the statistics entirely objective, rather than subjective where the emphasis is on one's own moods, attitudes, feelings, or opinions.

[egroen 384]

... and some members here crack me up with their underrating of Hudler.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

... and some members here crack me up with their underrating of Hudler.

Babcock doesn't rate Hudler very highly either. That's why he keeps him on the 4th line.

[miksteri 55]

I do not want O Jokinen on the red wings roster, ever.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I do not want O Jokinen on the red wings roster, ever.

I don't either.

I'd rather have Kopecky, who can skate in circles and get knocked down 10 times a game like a big clown. He's way more valuable to a team.

[Canadian_Yzerman_Fan 7]

there is a rumour about Ottawa trying to get Jok's in a blockbuster...

SPEZZA + MESZAROS for JOKINEN + BOUWMEESTER

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ott080619.html

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

there is a rumour about Ottawa trying to get Jok's in a blockbuster...

SPEZZA + MESZAROS for JOKINEN + BOUWMEESTER

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ott080619.html

Meszaros isn't as good as Bouwmeester, and Spezza isn't as good as Jokinen. That would be a good trade for Ottawa more so than Florida.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

The "crazy" part in the title of the thread was spot-on. Kopecky, Hudler, and the 30th pick in the draft for Olli Jokinen? Kopecky may have trouble finding a spot on the Red Wings roster, Hudler is a third-line player, and a first round pick isn't all that valuable where the Red Wings choose from every season. To get value, you have to trade value. Kopecky has almost no value, and Hudler has very little compared to a player like Jokinen.

It was a nice trade proposal, except for the whole realistic part.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Florida has made so many stupid trades over the years, but that would by far be the worst.

They would get a useless player and a 4th liner, plus a late 1st round pick, for a top line forward like Jokinen.

They'll never go for it, but I think it's comical how some people here on LGW wouldn't make this trade if Florida put it on the table. Some of the members here just crack me up with their overrating of Kopecky.

I think it is comical that people are already before training camp/the season starts wanting to make trades of the current Stanley Cup Champions when, in all likelihood, the roster that won the Stanley Cup will probably be mostly intact, and that people are throwing Kopecky in the curb when he isn't even in the prime of his hockey career/playing age and we don't know his full potential yet.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Babcock doesn't rate Hudler very highly either. That's why he keeps him on the 4th line.

I think Babcock kept Hudler in a fourth line role because it worked throughout the playoffs. It's more of a credit to the depth the Red Wings have than it is a slight to Hudler. How many fourth line players do you know that put up 14 points in a playoff run? Not to mention, scoring timely goals like game three against Dallas, or game four in Pittsburgh. When you have players like Filppula, Franzen, Cleary, and Samuelsson all getting second line minutes, somebody has to take a hit in ice time.

Calling Hudler "useless" is just false and completely off-base. You can dislike like the guy, but give him some credit for playing exceptionally well under the conditions he was dealt.

Edited June 19, 2008 by GoWings1905

[T.Low 1,011]

I just read on spector's site that Olli Jokinen is on the trading block. Spector says the asking price is believed to be two young NHL players and a 1st round pick. The value of young players in the Wings system has to be at an all time high right now, amongst GM's around the league. They(GM's) must be thinking: Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Franzen,FIlppula,Helm...."what other gems do these guys have in their system"? So here is my trade proposal.

To Florida

Hudler,Kopecky and this years 1st round pick

To Detroit

Olli Jokinen

Jokinen is singed until the summer of 2010. His salary per season is 5.2 mil.

Thoughts?

Florida would never make that deal. They are way to shrewd down there. You act as if they would make a trade like Luongo for Bertuzzi or something.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I think Babcock kept Hudler in a fourth line role because it worked throughout the playoffs. It's more of a credit to the depth the Red Wings have than it is a slight to Hudler. How many fourth line players do you know that put up 14 points in a playoff run? Not to mention, scoring timely goals like game three against Dallas, or game four in Pittsburgh. When you have players like Filppula, Franzen, Cleary, and Samuelsson all getting second line minutes, somebody has to take a hit in ice time.

Calling Hudler "useless" is just false and completely off-base. You can dislike like the guy, but give him some credit for playing exceptionally well under the conditions he was dealt.

But doesn't that depth you allude to mean that he's somewhat expendable?

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Brad Stuart at the time of that trade was nowhere near the player he is now. Wayne Primeau is scrub and had nowhere near the potential as Kopecky does at this stage. Sturm is a decent player and I think Hudler has the potential to be as good if not better than him eventually. So I'll play your game here.

Thorton 10

for

Primeau 4 with a potential 5

Sturm 7.5 with a potential 8

Stuart 6 with a potential 8

Jokinen 9-9.5

for

1st round pick 6.5 with a potential 9

Hudler 6.5 with a potential 8-8.5

Kopecky 4.5 with a potential 7

To me based on potential. The Wings/Panthers deal would be better.

First off i was using a ranking system similar to Boxing does, (the winner of the round automatically gets a 10 and the other

boxer gets whatever number they feel was close to this), Making Thornton the Ten Standard for that situation, Since i didnt clarify that lets just throw out the numbers, and replace them with logic.

Kopecky is known garbage around the leauge and is projected by many to never be more than a third line banger. His offensive talents dont allow him to grow into anything really more than that, and if he was MISPLACED on a 2nd line on some team i would not expect his numbers to be remotley decent (try 15g 20A WITH PRIME ICE TIME)

Hudler, while talented no doubt, still remains on our 4th line because he has shown little defensive awarness, and is sitll masivvily undersized, both of these are problems keeping him from being good trade bait, despite his skills, and the worst part is his lack of size will never go away.

Are First rounder is closer to half the teams in the nhl's second rounder. we have the last pick, thats not exactly anything noteworthy.

In Short, would you trade your team captain and leading point getter for a forward with max potentiol of 50-60 points but ispureley one dimensonal and is not physical at all along with a slow developing player, whos type of play make him as expendeble as sticks, and a s***ty first rounder? NOPE

I think Babcock kept Hudler in a fourth line role because it worked throughout the playoffs. It's more of a credit to the depth the Red Wings have than it is a slight to Hudler. How many fourth line players do you know that put up 14 points in a playoff run? Not to mention, scoring timely goals like game three against Dallas, or game four in Pittsburgh. When you have players like Filppula, Franzen, Cleary, and Samuelsson all getting second line minutes, somebody has to take a hit in ice time.

Calling Hudler "useless" is just false and completely off-base. You can dislike like the guy, but give him some credit for playing exceptionally well under the conditions he was dealt.

Hudler is without a doubt the third most offensivly talented player on the team. the reason that he didnt play 2nd line minutes is because Babcock has stated numerous times that he has been unhappy with Hudlers effort on some nights, lack of defensive disipline, and most probably his lack of size.

I for one think Hudler improved throughout the post season and should make a run for a top 6 postion as he easily is more offensivily talented than fillpulla, but he still has little trade value because the fact is HE STILL PLAYS ON THE 4th LINE

[bringback91 2]

I think the real question here is, is Franzen switching back to #39?

[Hank 0]

Florida would never take that. They would want Flip and Ericsson (our two young players with the highest potential) and a 1st. If I am Detroit, I would take your proposed deal in a second, but in reality, I think Florida's asking price is going to be way too high for us.

Exactly. If any team took that proposal Ken Holland should be encased in gold for that steal of a trade.

Like BB said, for that deal to work it would definitely involve Filp and most likely Ericsson.

There's really nobody else on this team that is 'expendable' to pick up a world class talent like Jokinen.

Kopecky would probably fetch a 3rd or 4th rounder. And Hudler is great in our system but he's not even going to get much in return.

Besides, if we're going to deal Filp and Ericsson I'd rather have Jeff Carter.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

But doesn't that depth you allude to mean that he's somewhat expendable?

Yes, I woud agree that Hudler would be one of the Red Wings more expendable forwards should the right deal come calling. The problem with Hudler is nobody quite knows what type of player he is yet. We've been hearing the "Hudler has potential" cries for years now. Hudler has improved without question -- I just doubt he'll ever be the consistent goal scorer that people expected, whether it's due to lack of playing time or not. For the role he plays with the Red Wings right now, however, Hudler has proven to be more than productive on the fourth line and powerplay.

For the people who claim Hudler deserves second-line minutes, which player on the Red Wings are you going to take those minutes away from?

Edited June 19, 2008 by GoWings1905

[Majsheppard 203]

No trades.