Marian Hossa will test free agent market

[norrisnick 1]

We don't need him

There's all sorts of players we don't need that we have on our roster. Having the ability to add a guy of Hossa's caliber to an already championship squad? I guarantee that Kenny makes a courtesy call come July 1st. He tossed a $30M+ contract offer Elias' way in '06. And we're in MUCH better position in '08.

How creative does Kenny want to get?

Holland can offer Hossa $7-8M/yr long term and more than likely still keep everyone of great importance that needs a contract now or next year (Z, Fil, Franzen, Jimmy, Ericsson, Hudler, etc...)

[Dabura 12,232]

I think that people are jumping the gun on how great he is.

No, they're not. He's a big, fast, clutch, defensively responsible goal-scorer who has the potential to be pretty much unstoppable if given the right supporting cast. The playoff flop argument is silly, unless you want to include Pavel Datsyuk in the discussion.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I think people were saying this at the trade deadline, that Pittsburgh gave away a chunk of their future in order to win now, and that he could leave for nothing over the summer. I saw it happening, I tell ya.

[VM1138 1,921]

So, with the cap now at $56m, could the Wings afford to sign him to a 1 year deal that paid him a buttload of money just for that 1 year?

word,

LDi03

Probably, but would we want to? Think about it. We're not a rebuilding team who needs to get pushed over the edge. We just need some consistent, timely scoring. We can pick that up long term for under 5 million. I was once all for Hossa, but now, really, we don't NEED him, we just need to ppick up some reliable role players to augment our lineup. Some good secondary scoring as an insurance policy against Filpulla and Hudler remaining inconsistent.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think that people are jumping the gun on how great he is. Until this year he has been a playoff flop. He's been in the NHL playoffs 8 years and his point totals are starting in 1999 2, 0, 2, 10, 16, 4, 1, 26. Not exactly specacular. This is the only year that he had more than a point per game. The previous 2 playoffs he was a no-show.

Granted he played great this year in the playoffs but the no shows in the previous 2 would make me think twice before giving him 8 Mil per year.

Hossa: 61 playoff points / 75 playoff games = .81 PPG

Datsyuk: 54 playoff points / 82 playoff games = .66 PPG

You were saying?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Probably, but would we want to? Think about it. We're not a rebuilding team who needs to get pushed over the edge. We just need some consistent, timely scoring. We can pick that up long term for under 5 million. I was once all for Hossa, but now, really, we don't NEED him, we just need to ppick up some reliable role players to augment our lineup. Some good secondary scoring as an insurance policy against Filpulla and Hudler remaining inconsistent.

The LAST thing we need is secondary scoring. We have that out the wazoo. Cleary, Filppula, Samuelsson, Franzen, and Hudler. Thats 5 players capable of minutes and positions on anything from the 3rd-1st lines in a scoring role. If we add anything up front, it should be something of impact. As in a guy that should perform no lower than a top 6 role.

[VM1138 1,921]

The LAST thing we need is secondary scoring. We have that out the wazoo. Cleary, Filppula, Samuelsson, Franzen, and Hudler. Thats 5 players capable of minutes and positions on anything from the 3rd-1st lines in a scoring role. If we add anything up front, it should be something of impact. As in a guy that should perform no lower than a top 6 role.

On paper, yes. They came through in the playoffs, but they all were inconsistent in the regular season. You can NEVER have too much secondary scoring, ever. If we can blow out teams 5-1 instead of 3-1, why wouldn't we want that?

[Anomalously 0]

Scoring lines 1a, 1b and 2 sure hurt us in 2002. Oh wait...

[eva unit zero 271]

I think that people are jumping the gun on how great he is. Until this year he has been a playoff flop. He's been in the NHL playoffs 8 years and his point totals are starting in 1999 2, 0, 2, 10, 16, 4, 1, 26. Not exactly specacular. This is the only year that he had more than a point per game. The previous 2 playoffs he was a no-show.

Granted he played great this year in the playoffs but the no shows in the previous 2 would make me think twice before giving him 8 Mil per year.

Last year was Hossa's first playoff better than a point per game. Guess what? Last year was also Hossa's first postseason playing on the first line.

Hossa missed 10 games this year. This resulted in his scoring only 29 goals; the first time he has failed to clear 30 goals in since 1999-2000. The last time he failed to reach 29 goals? His rookie year.

Hossa is a RIDICULOUS talent. And for those calling him a playoff no-show...Hossa only twice in his CAREER has not finished either first or second on his team in playoff scoring.

The first was his second season, when he finished tied for fourth on the Senators in scoring as they were swept by Dominik Hasek's Sabres; Ottawa would only score six goals in the series; as there was one overtime game, that is less than 1.5 goals per game as a team. Hossa was the second line RW.

The second was his single playoff appearance with Atlanta, which was again a sweep that saw his team score six goals in a four game sweep. Hossa was, again, the second line RW.

So again, FTR, Hossa has been top-two on his team in playoff scoring six of eight seasons he has been to the postseason.

Pavel Datsyuk, OTOH, has seen the postseason six times, and has been top-two on his team twice. Yet many posters on this board will call Hossa a playoff no-show (despite the fact that he was Pittsburgh's best forward in the playoffs this year) and will turn around and vehemently defend Pavel's playoff record.

[Dabura 12,232]

As it stands, we have three goal-scorers in Hank, Datsyuk and Franzen, and four secondary scorers in Cleary, Flip, Sammy and Hudler (possibly five if Leino is a revelation at training camp). To be brutally honest, though, Hank is our only tried and true, bona fide goal-scorer; Datsyuk is still a playmaker first and a scorer second, and Mule isn't a sure-thing yet. All of this is to say, I agree with YoungGuns -- if Holland's going to out and get a scoring forward, he might as well go for the cream of the crop.

[norrisnick 1]

On paper, yes. They came through in the playoffs, but they all were inconsistent in the regular season. You can NEVER have too much secondary scoring, ever. If we can blow out teams 5-1 instead of 3-1, why wouldn't we want that?

You can't have too much primary scoring either.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Not gonna happen. We will pay Z and Franzen and will try to keep Stuart and Lilja. If we lose Stuart, Kenny will shop around for a guy like Stuart. Then we will pick up a replacement for Drake at about $1M a year.

Done.

Wrong. Z and Franzen will get paid, but it wont have any effect on our cap this year. Drake's replacement will be an Owen Nolan/Mike Peca kinda guy, which will cost more then 1 million. Stuart will re-sign, or we'll find a replacement via FA or in the system. We have tons of money, and having an extra scoring forward can never hurt, and Kenny Holland knows that.

[sdogg1m 3]

On paper, yes. They came through in the playoffs, but they all were inconsistent in the regular season. You can NEVER have too much secondary scoring, ever. If we can blow out teams 5-1 instead of 3-1, why wouldn't we want that?

We should want that but not for more than the 7.1 million dollar offer that the Pens made him. We could tack on a couple more years if that would seal the deal but 8.5+ million would be a team chemistry killer especially if Franzen has an all world season. We would effectively be giving up Franzen for Hossa.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

There's all sorts of players we don't need that we have on our roster. Having the ability to add a guy of Hossa's caliber to an already championship squad? I guarantee that Kenny makes a courtesy call come July 1st. He tossed a $30M+ contract offer Elias' way in '06. And we're in MUCH better position in '08.

How creative does Kenny want to get?

Holland can offer Hossa $7-8M/yr long term and more than likely still keep everyone of great importance that needs a contract now or next year (Z, Fil, Franzen, Jimmy, Ericsson, Hudler, etc...)

Yup. I agree. It depends on how Holland would want to handle the situation, and also on the development of Franzen, Flip, and Hudler. I can guarantee that if Holland signed Hossa, Hudler would be put immediately on the block and Sammy wouldnt be re-signed in the off-season.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

As it stands, we have three goal-scorers in Hank, Datsyuk and Franzen, and four secondary scorers in Cleary, Flip, Sammy and Hudler (possibly five if Leino is a revelation at training camp). To be brutally honest, though, Hank is our only tried and true, bona fide goal-scorer; Datsyuk is still a playmaker first and a scorer second, and Mule isn't a sure-thing yet. All of this is to say, I agree with YoungGuns -- if Holland's going to out and get a scoring forward, he might as well go for the cream of the crop.

You forgot Holmstrom. At this point, hes closer to the secondary scoring side.

Edited June 22, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[norrisnick 1]

Yup. I agree. It depends on how Holland would want to handle the situation, and also on the development of Franzen, Flip, and Hudler. I can guarantee that if Holland signed Hossa, Hudler would be put immediately on the block and Sammy wouldnt be re-signed in the off-season.

Adding Hossa makes keeping a 24yo $1M scoring forward all the more important. It's guys like Hudler that you absolutely need to make spending big money on a handful of guys possible. Kenny would be smart to do anything in his power to get Jiri to sign an extension this summer before he gets more expensive.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

We should want that but not for more than the 7.1 million dollar offer that the Pens made him. We could tack on a couple more years if that would seal the deal but 8.5+ million would be a team chemistry killer especially if Franzen has an all world season. We would effectively be giving up Franzen for Hossa.

Thats more than a fair trade off. Even if Franzen scored 30 goals and 60 points - which is unlikely, at least where total points are concerned - he'd still be Marian Hossa Lite.

Are people aware that Franzen and Hossa are less than a year apart?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Adding Hossa makes keeping a 24yo $1M scoring forward all the more important. It's guys like Hudler that you absolutely need to make spending big money on a handful of guys possible. Kenny would be smart to do anything in his power to get Jiri to sign an extension this summer before he gets more expensive.

If hes able to do that, then yes, but if he doesnt, Hudler will be looking to make 3M easily, if not more. My motive for saying that Holland will be looking to trade Hudler is that Hudlers paycheck will far exceed 1M come 09-10.

Edited June 22, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Dabura 12,232]

You forgot Holmstrom. At this point, hes closer to the secondary scoring side.

Yeah, I realized I left him out right after I hit "Add Reply." Homer's definitely on the secondary side. So that gives us five secondary scorers, maybe six if Franzen falls off the wagon, maybe even seven if Franzen falls off the wagon and Leino impresses.

So, yeah -- Wings want an elite scorer or no scorer at all.

But, all things considered, only an act of divine intervention will land Hossa with the Wings this season.

[norrisnick 1]

If hes able to do that, then yes, but if he doesnt, Hudler will be looking to make 3M easily, if not more. My motive for saying that Holland will be looking to trade Hudler is that Hudlers paycheck will far exceed 1M come 09-10.

It depends on how good of a salesman Kenny is. Hudler absolutely loves it in Detroit. If Holland makes it clear that Hudler is an important, but smaller, piece than others we might get him on something along the lines of 5 years $10M. If he gets Fil and Franzen on Kronwall deals we'd be more than set until guys like Nick, Draper, Holmstrom, Maltby, Rafalski, Osgood start coming off the books.

As Kenny said players need to buy into the Red Wings' philosophy. They can be part of a potential dynasty or they can move on. I'm thinking most will want to stick around and win.

[eva unit zero 271]

Thats more than a fair trade off. Even if Franzen scored 30 goals and 60 points - which is unlikely, at least where total points are concerned - he'd still be Marian Hossa Lite.

Are people aware that Franzen and Hossa are less than a year apart?

No. If people were aware of that, you wouldn't get the posts talking about how having Hossa instead of Franzen is a bad thing. Mostly because while Franzen is a good player, Hossa is a Top Notch Forward. If we could sign Hossa, and the only thing that would have to happen to fit under the cap is Franzen would have to go...Holland would be stupid not to make that swap.

[VM1138 1,921]

As to the guy talking about Franzen, I have to say I'd rather have Franzen. He's shown he's the real deal. A whole season could put him among the best players in the league. I'd rather have him, "Hossa Lite", who is homegrown, comfortable in our system, reliable, and relatively cheap (long term) than an expensive gamble that could or could not pan out, and possible not hang around.

I like Hossa, but Franzen all the way.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The cap has increased by approximately 6M over the past two years and 5M prior. Im wary of the predictions that the cap will be up to 62 million by 09-10, so Ill got with a modest estimate of 59.3. An increase at half the rate of the past two years.

Lets see what some of Hollands options would be, if he were to offer an 7.5-8 million cap hit contract to Hossa:

Zetterberg - 8 years/57M

Hossa - 6 years/48M

Filppula - 3 years/6.3M

Franzen - 4 years/11.2M

2009-2010

Hank (7.125) - Datsyuk(6.7) - Hossa (8)

Franzen (2.8) - Filppula (2.1) - Holmstrom (2.25)

Cleary (2.8) - Helm (.5) - Abdelkader (.5)

Kopecky (.8) - Draper (1.583) - Maltby (.883)

McCarty/Downey/Youngster/UFA (.5)

Lidstrom (7.45) - Raffi (6)

Kronwall (3) - Ericsson (1)

Lebda(.65) - Quincey (.6)

Meech (.483)

Osgood (1.417)

Howard (.85)

Total: 57.9

That leaves 1.4M available at the trade deadline, if NEXT years cap rises by only 3M. For those counting, that would be enough money to add a $4M Dman at the trade deadline.

Edited June 22, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[YoungGuns1340 1]

As to the guy talking about Franzen, I have to say I'd rather have Franzen. He's shown he's the real deal. A whole season could put him among the best players in the league. I'd rather have him, "Hossa Lite", who is homegrown, comfortable in our system, reliable, and relatively cheap (long term) than an expensive gamble that could or could not pan out, and possible not hang around.

I like Hossa, but Franzen all the way.

Wait, wait, wait. Franzen has shown hes the real deal, but Hossa is a gamble?? Im confused which is the perennial 30+ goal scorer and which is the one to never have hit that mark? Which one is an 100 point forward and which has yet to break 40 points?

[eva unit zero 271]

Wait, wait, wait. Franzen has shown hes the real deal, but Hossa is a gamble?? Im confused which is the perennial 30+ goal scorer and which is the one to never have hit that mark? Which one is an 100 point forward and which has yet to break 40 points?

Franzen is a Red Wings draftee who is big and strong...that alone is worth like 65 points right?