Marian Hossa will test free agent market

[norrisnick 1]

I keep on haering people mentioning this Elias Scenario and im not doubting it but i sure as hell never heard of the offer. can anyone get me a thread or a link to some source to this just so i can get the whole story.

I was off by a year. 5 years $5.5M/yr.

This thread on HF references an MLive article that doesn't exist anymore.

http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-266172.html

[Dabura 12,207]

A lot of people are saying things like, "Well, if it's between Hossa and Flip + Franzen, then...."

NN made a very good point when he said Hossa and our stars in need of retention don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. That is to say, bringing in Hossa doesn't necessarily mean losing Franzen or Flip. It all hinges on what the different parties want and how creative Kenny wants to be (more the latter, I think, because Kenny can influence the demands of our own players). My point, I guess, is that not everything is set in stone. Take Stuart, for example: just because Kenny would like to have him back doesn't necessarily mean he wants anything to do with the Wings anymore. And Kenny has made it pretty clear that there's a ceiling on his offers to Stuart, so it's not like he'll be saying to himself, "s***, if only I weren't interested in Hossa! Then I could really offer Brad some quality money!" Saying it's Hossa or Franzen + Stuart doesn't really take these things into account. It also assumes Franzen is going to continue to be a force, commanding a lot of money when it comes time to extend him. For all we know, Mule could go cold this season.

Obviously it makes no sense signing Hossa on the basis of a bunch of "if..."s. But, like I said, there's room for creativity. And for all we know, Hossa is willing to go as low at 7-7.5 if it means playing for the Wings.

[egroen 384]

I have gone over the numbers numerously ...... if Hossa comes, you are definitely giving up Stuart (or a legit #4) no matter what, and you have got to lose one of those second line forwards next year - don't sign Franzen or trade Cleary, Filppula, whatever. That's the only way it works. Sorry.

Who knows though, it could be a vast improvement. I still do not think it is something Holland would do.

The numbers posted earlier where everyone is retained is a complete pipe dream and pretty much impossible... here's why:

From Article 50.5(e)(iv)©:

For a Club that wishes to sign an Unrestricted Free Agent following the commencement of a season (i.e., after the first day of the NHL Regular Season), if the Club signs such a Player to an SPC after December 1, then the following rules shall apply:

(1) In order for the Club to sign such a Player to a one-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the remaining Player Salary and Bonuses to be earned by the Player under the SPC in that League Year; and

(2) In order for a Club to sign such a Player to a multi-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the Averaged Amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses for the remainder of such season. If, however, the Averaged Amount of the SPC exceeds the Club's Payroll Room for the then-current League Year, the Club may still sign such SPC, provided that it has Payroll Room and, if such Payroll Room is insufficient to acquire the SPC, it has an amount equal to one or more SPCs that will expire at the end of such League Year, in an amount equal to or in excess of the amount by which the Averaged Amount exceeds the Club's Payroll Room (the "Tagged Payroll Room"). Until such time as the Club has or makes Payroll Room in the current year in excess of such Tagged Payroll Room, the Club may not engage in any Player transactions requiring Payroll Room, including but not limited to, acquiring an SPC or "extending" or entering into a new SPC (the "Tagging Rule"). In the event the Club does have or creates such excess Payroll Room, it may use such excess Payroll Room in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

[Dabura 12,207]

In my mind, the only thing that would stop Holland from even calling Hossa's agent is a returning Stuart. If Stuart comes back, then yes, Hossa would be pretty much impossible to swing. If he looks to be gone, however, Holland will probably place a call. That's all I'm saying, and that's all I've ever really been saying in this thread. In all likelihood, nothing will come of it. If, on the other hand, Hossa says he's flexible, then Kenny can try to get creative. That could involve, for starters, talking Flip and Mule down to something like 2.5 and 2.8, respectively (not likely, but not out of the question). Actually, Hank could likely be talked down as well, as the figure a lot of people seem to think he'll get (7.5) would be, if memory serves, more than what Nick is earning. Isn't Nick at 7.45-ish? Maybe Hank could settle for 7.3, maybe even 7 flat. (It's worth remembering that Kenny would have a year to work this out.) In terms of actual additions and subtractions, how about dropping Sammy and "replacing" him with a league-minimum scrub like Abdelkader. Kenny might also decide to fill that #4 spot on the blue line with someone already in the system -- perhaps Ericsson, who would cost $1 million at most, giving the Wings a $4-million-dollar second pairing (not bad at all).

Point being, there's wiggle room. But I'm kind of growing tired of debating what Kenny probably will or probably won't do. Time will tell.

[norrisnick 1]

I have gone over the numbers numerously ...... if Hossa comes, you are definitely giving up Stuart (or a legit #4) no matter what, and you have got to lose one of those second line forwards next year - don't sign Franzen or trade Cleary, Filppula, whatever. That's the only way it works. Sorry.

Who knows though, it could be a vast improvement. I still do not think it is something Holland would do.

The numbers posted earlier where everyone is retained is a complete pipe dream and pretty much impossible... here's why:

From Article 50.5(e)(iv)©:

For a Club that wishes to sign an Unrestricted Free Agent following the commencement of a season (i.e., after the first day of the NHL Regular Season), if the Club signs such a Player to an SPC after December 1, then the following rules shall apply:

(1) In order for the Club to sign such a Player to a one-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the remaining Player Salary and Bonuses to be earned by the Player under the SPC in that League Year; and

(2) In order for a Club to sign such a Player to a multi-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the Averaged Amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses for the remainder of such season. If, however, the Averaged Amount of the SPC exceeds the Club's Payroll Room for the then-current League Year, the Club may still sign such SPC, provided that it has Payroll Room and, if such Payroll Room is insufficient to acquire the SPC, it has an amount equal to one or more SPCs that will expire at the end of such League Year, in an amount equal to or in excess of the amount by which the Averaged Amount exceeds the Club's Payroll Room (the "Tagged Payroll Room"). Until such time as the Club has or makes Payroll Room in the current year in excess of such Tagged Payroll Room, the Club may not engage in any Player transactions requiring Payroll Room, including but not limited to, acquiring an SPC or "extending" or entering into a new SPC (the "Tagging Rule"). In the event the Club does have or creates such excess Payroll Room, it may use such excess Payroll Room in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

The first bolded part is simply not true. You're creating an either/or situation that doesn't exist. There is absolutely no reason one of our younger core players have to be moved or let go. None.

Second bolded part is tricky but nowhere near impossible. Give up on a big money #4 and let the kids play, sign Hossa, sign/extend everyone but Zetterberg this summer while they are still relatively cheap. Then sign Z next summer after his contract expires. If you wait on Z's deal we have plenty of cap space for '09-'10 and we don't run into the tagging problem.

[egroen 384]

The first bolded part is simply not true. You're creating an either/or situation that doesn't exist. There is absolutely no reason one of our younger core players have to be moved or let go. None.

You and I both know there is a 0% chance Holland goes into '10 with $62 million in salary locked up.

Someone significant has to go, Samuelsson and his low salary is not going to cut it.

Holland will need a cushion to sign a goaltender if he needs to, or sign a defenseman if he needs to.

Yes, yes... 'if' the salary cap goes to $62 million in '10 and 'if' Hossa, Zetterberg, Fillpula, Hudler, Franzen, etc... ALL give significant discounts to Detroit, they can all barely squeeze in.

But let's at least look at it with just a slight amount of realism.

Edited June 25, 2008 by egroen

[Turretin 0]

Am I the only one that doesn't really want Zetterberg to take a "discount" on his next contract? The guy has sacrificed his mind and body for this team over the last couple of years, making under half of what he's worth and he has not complained about it once. I think he deserves to be rewarded witha contract that will set him up for life. I don't mind Filpulla and Franzen taking less than their current fair market value (because I think they are both a little inflated right now), but not Zetterberg. I would hate to see him have to watch a merc come in and make more than him.

[Opie 308]

Am I the only one that doesn't really want Zetterberg to take a "discount" on his next contract? The guy has sacrificed his mind and body for this team over the last couple of years, making under half of what he's worth and he has not complained about it once. I think he deserves to be rewarded witha contract that will set him up for life. I don't mind Filpulla and Franzen taking less than their current fair market value (because I think they are both a little inflated right now), but not Zetterberg. I would hate to see him have to watch a merc come in and make more than him.

I would not hold it against him if he wanted to make his money, considering he was one of the best players in the league he deserves his money, having said that, I hope he is willing to take a discount because he could command as much as a Hossa or a Malkin on the open market, his value couldn't be higher right now.

I see him making more than Lids, some where near 8 for about 6 years, on the open market I wouldn't be surprised if he fetch a few offers of 9 or more.

But I also see him as some one in the Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Joe Thornton, Sidney Crosby (he did take a discount) mold. A guy who is willing to take less than what his open market value is to stay with his team. Boston, foolishly, thought Thornton would command lots of loot and they didn't want to pay him, cheap owners. He signed a deal for 7.2, I would hope Holland has done his homework and knows Z's magic number and if it is anywhere near or under 7.5 I will consider it a discount.

Remember Lids at 7.45 is a huge discount, Dats at 6.7 turns out to be a substantial discount, IMO, 7.5 to me would be great for Z.

But let us not also forget that 4 million dollars is a ton of money, so I don't want to hear anyone say that they feel bad for a guy who makes 6-7-8 million a year.

[Dabura 12,207]

Someone significant has to go, Samuelsson and his low salary is not going to cut it.

At this point, I think you're just being obstinate. No one is saying Sammy alone is going to cut it. That's why Kenny needs to "be creative." Fortunately, he has options, and he would have time to sort things out.

And no, I wouldn't have a problem with Hank taking a discount. 7-7.5 is nothing to cry about, especially when considering 1) Nick is making something like 7.45, 2) Hank is being groomed as this team's new Yzerman, 3) 8 isn't much more than 7-7.5, and 4) Hossa would almost guarantee at least one more Cup.

[Turretin 0]

At this point, I think you're just being obstinate. No one is saying Sammy alone is going to cut it. That's why Kenny needs to "be creative." Fortunately, he has options, and he would have time to sort things out.

And no, I wouldn't have a problem with Hank taking a discount. 7-7.5 is nothing to cry about, especially when considering 1) Nick is making something like 7.45, 2) Hank is being groomed as this team's new Yzerman, 3) 8 isn't much more than 7-7.5, and 4) Hossa would almost guarantee at least one more Cup.

Oh man, good post until you shredded your credibility with that point. Who hasn't heard that same statement about Ray Whitney, CuJo, Hatcher, etc. Remember, if Hossa's knee acts up, we are screwed. The other problem with tying yourself close to the cap is it lets other owner's know that they have you by the balls in a trade negotiation.

[Dabura 12,207]

Hossa =/= Whitney

Hossa =/= Hatcher

Hossa =/= Cujo

Furthermore, the Wings will not be "screwed" if Hossa's knee "acts up." You take away Hossa and you still have more or less the same team that just won the Cup.

[Dabura 12,207]

And I'm sorry, but the day I don't take a guy like Hossa because some GM could potentially have me by the balls in a future deal is the day I shoot myself in the face.

Edited June 25, 2008 by Dabura

[Opie 308]

Wouldn't you have to be a GM first?

[Dabura 12,207]

I'm secretly Ken Holland. Don't tell anyone.

[norrisnick 1]

You and I both know there is a 0% chance Holland goes into '10 with $62 million in salary locked up.

Someone significant has to go, Samuelsson and his low salary is not going to cut it.

Holland will need a cushion to sign a goaltender if he needs to, or sign a defenseman if he needs to.

Yes, yes... 'if' the salary cap goes to $62 million in '10 and 'if' Hossa, Zetterberg, Fillpula, Hudler, Franzen, etc... ALL give significant discounts to Detroit, they can all barely squeeze in.

But let's at least look at it with just a slight amount of realism.

A friendly reminder that there is nothing in the rules preventing Holland from moving older players should it come down to it. If push came to shove it wouldn't be Fil, Franzen or Cleary being moved. It would be Draper or Holmstrom.

That said it wouldn't get that far.

[Turretin 0]

A friendly reminder that there is nothing in the rules preventing Holland from moving older players should it come down to it. If push came to shove it wouldn't be Fil, Franzen or Cleary being moved. It would be Draper or Holmstrom.

That said it wouldn't get that far.

That is a great point. I was actually wondering if Babcock would toy around with putting Franzen on line 1 and putting Holmstrom down at all during this upcoming season. The reality is that Holmstrom will not keep this up too many more years.

[Opie 308]

That is a great point. I was actually wondering if Babcock would toy around with putting Franzen on line 1 and putting Holmstrom down at all during this upcoming season. The reality is that Holmstrom will not keep this up too many more years.

The only problem here is I am not sure that Homer can be Homer on another line, the beauty of what he does is that Z and D can control the puck in the zone moving around using the D, and Homer can do his thing.

NOW not saying Homer doesn't do anything but stick his ass in the goalie's face, but he has a limited skill set when compared to Mule.

Therefore I think you have to keep Homer on the first line and Mule on the second, otherwise you would have a very talented 1st line and a second line that just doesn't have skill.

And please don't take this as anti-homer, the guy is great, but he is not going to score too many goals form the dots out, Mule can.

[dallas27 7]

I'm secretly Ken Holland. Don't tell anyone.

I'm Marian's agent. 6 million work for you?

Do I really have to post the video I did at the trade deadline for all the skeptics that are still out there?

I could give two s***s who they have to get rid of to get Hossa so long as it's not Hank, Pavel or Lidstrom. He is an UPGRADE from any forward other than Hank and Pavel. Please don't give me any of this team chemistry bull, you plop Hossa into the Red Wings system and you are looking at at least 100 points. As Dabura said, some of you don't realize how big of a pick-up he would be and how much hell he would create everytime he steps on the ice in a Wings uni.

I just hope Hossa realizes he has a chance to be a Detroit Red Wing, which I don't see how anyone can turn that down, and is lenient on what he wants if Kenny calls. His best shot for a cup is obviously in D-Town.

[Dabura 12,207]

6 million

I wish.

He's worth it even at 8, though -- and I mean that in terms of his skill set and the Wings' lack of that kind of package. Contrary to popular belief, he's not just a poor man's Hank Zetterberg or a poor man's Pavel Datsyuk. Firstly, he's bigger (about 6-2, 210 pounds). Secondly, he could very well be faster. Some guy -- I think it was one of Hossa's former team mates -- once described him as being "absolutely unstoppable" when he gathers speed. That's because of his size and foot speed (which is showcased pretty well in that highlight video that dallas posted). Thirdly, he's a pure goal-scorer, whereas both Hank and Dats started out as playmaker types and have had to work at being more proficient go-to guys in the scoring department. Even now, Dats is clearly more comfortable as a setup man. Hossa, on the other hand, is completely comfortable in his role: scoring. The numbers back this up. As eva pointed out, this past season he missed ten games and scored "only" 29 goals. The last time he failed to score 30 goals was the '99-00 season. And, as YoungGuns pointed out, he has 61 points in 75 playoff games, which is actually objectively better than Datsyuk's 54 points in 82 postseason games -- and that's with a top-notch supporting cast each time, which can't be said of Hossa's past teams.

Additionally, Hossa has an excellent defensive game. That's not to say Hank and Dats don't have the same, because they do. But I want to shoot down any notions of "selfishness" and "irresponsibility" and "one-dimensionality" that may be floating around here, as Hossa is very much an elite two-way player. (To make it sound a little sexier: you're looking at a guy who could easily be the Wings' leading scoring and one of their best defensive forwards.) Some people have called him selfish and immature in the past. I've never really understood that argument, and it certainly didn't make any more sense to me when Hossa was the only Penguin man enough to come out and say the Pens were being beaten not by the refs, not by obstruction, not by Zeus and his thunderbolts, but by the Wings' superior defense. That was a very classy move, and I can't help but wonder if Therrien's viewpoint at the time (refs, obstruction, Zeus, etc.) might have something to do with Hossa going to free agency....

[Rice 42]

For what it's worth, Spector thinks Hossa is coming to Detroit.

Link.

[T.Low 1,011]

The only problem here is I am not sure that Homer can be Homer on another line, the beauty of what he does is that Z and D can control the puck in the zone moving around using the D, and Homer can do his thing.

NOW not saying Homer doesn't do anything but stick his ass in the goalie's face, but he has a limited skill set when compared to Mule.

Therefore I think you have to keep Homer on the first line and Mule on the second, otherwise you would have a very talented 1st line and a second line that just doesn't have skill.

And please don't take this as anti-homer, the guy is great, but he is not going to score too many goals form the dots out, Mule can.

Excellent post. And I can't help but agree 100%.

The law of diminishing returns may apply to moving Franzen up to that line. He may be much more valueable on the second line. Its all about roles. Holmer's role fits really well with the first line, and Franzen gives scoring to the second.

[VM1138 1,921]

Don't forget about retirements, guys. I don't see Maltby, Draper, or Holmstrom staying around much longer past the '10 season, in all honesty.

I'd love to have Hossa, but let's be realistic. Too many other teams are in contention for him and would offer more money. I doubt he's coming here.

The only players out there that would really impact our team, I feel, are:

Hossa

Rolston

Sundin

Bouwemeester

Realistically, I think we get Rolston and no one else.

[Dabura 12,207]

Too many other teams are in contention for him and would offer more money. I doubt he's coming here.

That's assuming money is his only concern. He said before he was shipped to Pittsburgh that he wanted to play for a perennial contender and would be willing to make less than what he conceivably could make elsewhere if it meant playing for such a team. So then he goes and gets traded to the "favored" Pens, who, of course, get their asses handed to them by an unequivocally superior Wings team. And then, in the offseason, he rejects the Pens' retention offer.

I could certainly be wrong, but I think he's willing to take a paycut. Doesn't necessarily mean I think he'll take one from the Wings, but to say he's just going to go to the highest bidder is pretty baseless, imo.

In all honesty, I think Hossa is more likely than Rolston. Rolston would give the Wings nothing they don't already have. That's pretty big money for a guy who's basically going to be redundant on this team.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the B's only have about 6mil in cap space, while we have about 17 mil left as of right now.

[grovercleveland 0]

Dont know if its been posted yet but http://www.theinsideronpittsburghsports.com/ reports this:

"The top contenders for Marian Hossa are the Pittsburgh Penguins, Boston Bruins, Vancouver Canucks, Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings. I hate to even mention the Red Wings because I don't see how there going to sign Hossa but I've been told Hossa is waiting to see what kind of offer two specific teams make. Those two specific teams are the Boston Bruins and Detroit Red Wings. Ritch Winter has approached Ray Shero about being granted permission to speak to teams. In particular Chicago and Boston. Shero has said no. I was going to post this last week if Hossa accepted the Penguins offer but if the Penguins do sign Marian Hossa, Bobby Holik becomes a possibility as one of those 1 year 2.5 - 3 million per season veterans because of his close relationship with Hossa."

Not that we didnt already know that, just thought you mite like to see the actual post. My best friend whos a pens fan uses this site all the time.