Marian Hossa will test free agent market

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Hossa-Filppula-Franzen

or

Zetterberg-Sundin-Franzen

Datsyuk-Filppula-Holmstrom

eh

[dallas27 7]

Exactly, Could you imagine Pavel feeding Hossa?

I can, especially since Hossa has been my favorite player for years and years now.

As far as this whole playoff thing/debate. Throw that out the window. Hossa would THRIVE, THRIVE on a puck possesion team like Detroit.

[dallas27 7]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Hossa-Filppula-Franzen

or

Zetterberg-Sundin-Franzen

Datsyuk-Filppula-Holmstrom

eh

Why in the world would you even consider Sundin if you have a legit shot at Hossa.

[egroen 384]

You would still seriously look at Sundin because he is more likely to sign a one year deal.

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Hossa could take up $23 million in cap space the following year. Where do you make the sacrifices to amass that top 3?

You think a team like Philly could stop Dats, Z and Hossa? Please.

No, but there are definitely some Western teams that could handle it.

[Dabura 12,232]

When asked if he would be phoning Hossa's agent, Holland replied, "No, we don't want him. We figure there are some teams in our conference that could probably contain our top-6 so, you know, what's the point? Nawmean?"

[Izzy24 44]

With rough estimates of:

$8M for Hossa.

$7.5M for Z.

$3M for Fil.

$3M for Franzen.

$2M for Hudler.

$1.25M for Jimmy.

$1M for Cheli, Lilly, or a comparable.

$1M for Ericsson.

$850K for Quincey.

And $500K for a random scrub.

I'm coming up under the projected cap for this coming season and around $62M for '09-'10. Obviously there would be tagging issues involved if all the new contracts were signed this summer, as well as $62M would be cutting it awfully close to whatever the next cap may be.

BUT... those are generous estimates. I'm carrying 13 forwards, 8 D, and 2 goalies. And no one under contract gets traded away. I'm more than confident in Kenny's abilities to get a bit more creative if we seriously want to take an attempt to sign Hossa and take another solid step ahead of the rest of the league. After talking a half-hearted stab at Elias a couple years back he could take a real one here.

I'm a random scrub. Make it happen, Kenny.

[norrisnick 1]

You would still seriously look at Sundin because he is more likely to sign a one year deal.

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Hossa could take up $23 million in cap space the following year. Where do you make the sacrifices to amass that top 3?

No, but there are definitely some Western teams that could handle it.

You make no sacrifices. We'll be spending close to $28M on four guys next season anyway.

If you have the right kind of players you can get top heavy. Nick and Rafalski are two of the best two-way defensemen in the world. Z and Pavel (and Hossa) are top 5 two-way forwards. If your expensive guys are multi-dimensional you're not going to be hurting too much.

The Western teams couldn't handle us this past season. All we would be doing is adding Hossa. How does that make us any easier to stop?

[thedisappearer 291]

No, but there are definitely some Western teams that could handle it.

That's odd. They couldn't handle it without Hossa this year.

[daniel1 32]

In franzen's defense on this one....i believe it was about an ice time/confidence thing. When homer and cleary were injured he moved up a line and saw more playing time. He got a couple nice plays and assists...cofidence goes up, and he starts to realize he can push his way through people to the net. Scores a couple goals confidence boosts more...so then he gets on a run and realizes that with his size and weight it's hard for people to stop his momentum in front of the net. Homer and cleary come back and he moves back down a line and he still has that confidence....hence he goes on a long run of scoring. He gets injured in round 3, comes back early in round 4 and only had like 1 goal i think but his play picked up right where he left off and has nice setups and assists...never really found his scoring grove again but the 1 he did get in the finals was a beautiful goal....i think alot of people aren't crediting franzen enough.

Not only that but the Mule is a COMPLETE player. I was big fan of his even when he wasn't an offensive threat. When was the last time you saw Hossa winning a big draw, playing shut down on the other team's top center or killing a penalty? Not to mention the chemistry thing Mule has going; he loves his teammates and they love him. I would take Franzen over Hossa any day and not just cause he's cheaper but because he can do more than just score and fits in with the Wings perfectly.

[Dabura 12,232]

Hossa is every bit as well-rounded as Mule. If you've ever watched him play (I mean really watched him), you'd know he's arguably one of the most defensively aware and responsible top-line forwards in the league. That's his appeal: he's a lights-out scorer who also has a great defensive game.

My question is this: Does anyone who doesn't want Hossa on this team have any, you know, legitimate arguments?

[Turretin 0]

Hossa is every bit as well-rounded as Mule. If you've ever watched him play (I mean really watched him), you'd know he's arguably one of the most defensively aware and responsible top-line forwards in the league. That's his appeal: he's a lights-out scorer who also has a great defensive game.

My question is this: Does anyone who doesn't want Hossa on this team have any, you know, legitimate arguments?

I think the only really legitimate argument is that you don't want the team to bind itself that tight. Now, whether it is too tight is debatable. What isn't debatable is that by signing Hossa the Wings would have less flexibility than they do now. It seems like the Wings trend over the past 5 years has been to let everyone else freak out over the "trendy" pick and then come in and get the tier 2 guy that fits the system. That's why I wouldn't hold my breath for Hossa, but would be hopeful for Rolston.

[Turretin 0]

BTW, I love franzen, but he is not in the same class as Hossa. Different players and different potential. Hossa>Franzen 9 times out of 10.

[Dabura 12,232]

Hossa would tie our hands a bit, for sure. I guess the way I see it is, if Kenny's going to sign him, it will be at a good price. In light of how careful he's been in this new cap world, he's not going to put the team in a big hole by throwing ridiculous money and terms at someone. So, I'm not sure it's worth arguing that Hossa would put a huge strain on us, because, should that look to be be the case, Holland won't even bother.

[Turretin 0]

Hossa would tie our hands a bit, for sure. I guess the way I see it is, if Kenny's going to sign him, it will be at a good price. In light of how careful he's been in this new cap world, he's not going to put the team in a big hole by throwing ridiculous money and terms at someone. So, I'm not sure it's worth arguing that Hossa would put a huge strain on us, because, should that look to be be the case, Holland won't even bother.

Fine, but you see how that is a tautology don't you? You asked "Give a legitmate concern about adding Hossa" and then when one is presented you respond: "Oh, I assume that Holland won't do that." That's okay with me. In fact, I agree with your post, which is why I don't think we are going to sign Hossa.

[Dabura 12,232]

Personally, I think "He's gonna cost a lot" is a borderline truism. When I ask for legitimate reasons, I'm assuming it's already commonly understood that the dude's gonna be pricey.

But now I'm derailing the thread....

[Turretin 0]

I guess derailing is better than railing it.

I think Hossa's got to be a little torn. He is 30 years old, so this is his time to get that fat pay-check that he will try to live off of for the rest of his life. On the other hand, he probably wants a cup, meaning he won't be able to demand as much. Tough choice. If I'm in his shoes, I can't say that I wouldn't take the money. I definitely wouldn't sign until I saw what teams were offering as a UFA.

[egroen 384]

The legitimate argument is the havoc his contract will create.

Wings are currently at $39.5 million:

Letting Stuart go and signing Lilja, Chelios, Quincey and Ericcson adds $3.5 million

Howard $800k

Fillpula + Downey/Mccarty = $3.5 million

$47.3 million

Add Hossa at a "discount" of $7.5 million for a total of $54.8 million.

Leaving a cap cushion of $1.5 million.

I doubt Holland would leave such a small cushion, and we already know he is more interested right now in finding a legit #4 defenseman, than adding a big-time FA forward.

Next year is really a mess. Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, Samuelsson and Kopecky all need to be resigned or let go freeing up $6.6 million.

$48.2 million with at least 4 forward positions to sign:

Zetterberg and Franzen will cost about $11 million combined brings you almost up to $60 million alone.

Forwards have to go:

Samuelsson and Hudler would be lost to free agency.

Filppula would most likely have to be traded.

Wings basically become a 3 line team.

No room to sign a legitimate #4 defenceman, should it be necessary.

No room to sign a FA goalie, should it necessary.

Holland is conservative... there is no chance in hell he plays by the seat of his pants this way.

[redwinger4747 6]

Hossa is every bit as well-rounded as Mule. If you've ever watched him play (I mean really watched him), you'd know he's arguably one of the most defensively aware and responsible top-line forwards in the league. That's his appeal: he's a lights-out scorer who also has a great defensive game.

My question is this: Does anyone who doesn't want Hossa on this team have any, you know, legitimate arguments?

Umm.....how about WE JUST WON THE STANLEY CUP and we don't need to get into a bidding war over the most sought after free agent when OUR WHOLE ROSTER is coming back next year. We just need to keep our guys, resign Flip, hopefully sign Stuart, bring in a 3rd or 4th line guy to replace Drake (which may or may not be Leino) and we have

Holmstrom Zetterberg Datsyuk

Sammy Filppula Franzen

Maltby Draper Cleary

Hudler Helm Kopecky/Leino

McCarty

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lebda

Chelios Meech/Quincey

Osgood

Howard

So obviously this roster can NOT win the Stanley Cup, we've found that out, so lets revamp our team, pay 8mil for Hossa. Yeah, good strategy.

Edited June 23, 2008 by redwinger4747

[Dabura 12,232]

So obviously this roster can NOT win the Stanley Cup, we've found that out, so lets revamp our team, pay 8mil for Hossa. Yeah, good strategy.

Calm down. I'm not necessarily saying we should go after Hossa. Furthermore, as I've stated numerous times, it's extremely unlikely that he'll be playing in Motown this season. The whole thing is basically a pipe dream, and I'm well aware of this fact.

Now, having said that, I'm going to reiterate another point I've made several times already: if you're Ken Holland, and you learn there's a chance you could sign Hossa without absolutely breaking your back, you're going to make at least one courtesy phone call. That's not me talking, that's just common sense. In reality, Kenny could conceivably sign Hossa without "wreaking havoc" on the Wings' financial situation. As NN pointed out, some creative work on Kenny's part could land Hossa here without costing us the likes of Flip or Mule, and with a reasonable cushion left over. I'm sure Kenny realizes this, which is why I expect him to make at least a decent push for Hossa's services. Do I think think Hossa will come here? Again, no. But all of these fire and brimstone arguments about Hossa being a bankrupting antiChrist are a bit much.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Dabura

[redwinger4747 6]

Calm down. I'm not necessarily saying we should go after Hossa. Furthermore, as I've stated numerous times, it's extremely unlikely that he'll be playing in Motown this season. The whole thing is basically a pipe dream, and I'm well aware of this fact.

Now, having said that, I'm going to reiterate another point I've made several times already: if you're Ken Holland, and you learn there's a chance you could sign Hossa without absolutely breaking your back, you're going to make at least one courtesy phone call. That's not me talking, that's just common sense. In reality, Kenny could conceivably sign Hossa without "wreaking havoc" on the Wings' financial situation. As NN pointed out, some creative work on Kenny's part could land Hossa here without costing us the likes of Flip or Mule, and with a reasonable cushion left over. I'm sure Kenny realizes this, which is why I expect him to make at least a decent push for Hossa's services. Do I think think Hossa will come here? Again, no. But all of these fire and brimstone arguments about Hossa being a bankrupting antiChrist are a bit much.

Signing Hossa WOULD wreak havoc on our team, as soon as the 2009-10 season starts. I expect Holland to make absolutely no effort to sign Hossa whatsoever because he is smart enough to know that we don't need a superstar, a franchise centerpiece - we already have those in place. We only need to fill out the bottom of our roster and we're set to contend for the near future.

[egroen 384]

As NN pointed out, some creative work on Kenny's part could land Hossa here without costing us the likes of Flip or Mule, and with a reasonable cushion left over.

He is assuming the cap goes up over 10% to $62 million for '10 -- which is extremely generous. There is no cushion. And he admitted the awful problems of tagging up -- having those players signed to that much in '09 for the next year, w/o even knowing if the cap will even increase.

Holland would never even consider doing something like that. There is no way he makes even a marginal offer to Hossa.

Edited June 23, 2008 by egroen

[norrisnick 1]

He is assuming the cap goes up over 10% to $62 million for '10 -- which is extremely generous. There is no cushion. And he admitted the awful problems of tagging up -- having those players signed to that much in '09 for the next year, w/o even knowing if the cap will even increase.

Holland would never even consider doing something like that. There is no way he makes even a marginal offer to Hossa.

We were a hell of a lot tighter cap-wise when Kenny made a 6 year $5.5M/yr offer to Patrik Elias a couple summers back. Kenny would be stupid to not even try, especially since he'd have a full year to work something out.

[Izzy24 44]

I think a lot of the anti-Hossa sentiment is caused by lingering resentment that he had the audacity to play against the Wings in the Cup Finals.

[Dabura 12,232]

I'm not sure why we're even having this argument. My arguments are simple, straightforward and innocuous.

As I said, if you're Ken Holland, and you learn there's a chance you could sign Hossa without absolutely breaking your back, you're going to make at least one courtesy phone call. The simple fact that Hossa rejected the Pens' offer implies that he's open to ideas and offers -- such as, conceivably, playing for less if it means playing for a team that's even more competitive than the Pens. Kenny has nothing to lose by putting in a call and an offer; if Hossa rejects it, then hey, no skin off Kenny's back. If Hossa says, "Alright, I'm listening," the Wings' financial situation is not so tight that any situation involving Hossa coming here would surely drive the team straight into the ground for all eternity (*volcano*, *lightning*, *tsunami*, *atom bomb*, *nuclear winter*, etc.)

Moreover, as I've also said before, I'm not crazy about this "We don't need ___" argument. We didn't need Dallas Drake. We didn't need Darren McCarty. We didn't need Brad Stuart. Personnel decisions aren't always made on a strict, unforgiving "absolutely need/absolutely don't need" basis, especially with a "flexible" team like the Wings. So, while we may not absolutely, unequivocally need a guy like Hossa, he would certainly be a phenomenal addition and is therefore worth at least a generic phone call expressing interest in his services. Furthermore, I question the notion that all we "need" to do is "fill out the bottom of our roster." In my opinion, "the bottom" is set on both forward and D. Regarding the former, we have names like Maltby, McCarty, Hudler, Helm and Kopecky to work with. Regarding the latter, we have that pesky logjam everyone's talking about, with Lebda, Lilja, Meech, Quincey, Ericsson and Kindl all battling for the same one or two spots on the blue line. The point here is that if Holland is going to make a move for someone, that someone might as well be a top-tier someone (doesn't have to be Hossa), as we have more than enough secondary scorers (Flip, Sammy, Homer, etc.), energy guys, and depth defensemen. Even if Holland has no interest in Hossa, it might be worth getting his fingers in that pie, if only to screw with the Sharks and Stars, who will surely be making calls of their own.

[norrisnick 1]

I'm not sure why we're even having this argument. My arguments are simple, straightforward and innocuous.

As I said, if you're Ken Holland, and you learn there's a chance you could sign Hossa without absolutely breaking your back, you're going to make at least one courtesy phone call. The simple fact that Hossa rejected the Pens' offer implies that he's open to ideas and offers -- such as, conceivably, playing for less if it means playing for a team that's even more competitive than the Pens. Kenny has nothing to lose by putting in a call and an offer; if Hossa rejects it, then hey, no skin off Kenny's back. If Hossa says, "Alright, I'm listening," the Wings' financial situation is not so tight that any situation involving Hossa coming here would surely drive the team straight into the ground for all eternity (*volcano*, *lightning*, *tsunami*, *atom bomb*, *nuclear winter*, etc.)

Moreover, as I've also said before, I'm not crazy about this "We don't need ___" argument. We didn't need Dallas Drake. We didn't need Darren McCarty. We didn't need Brad Stuart. Personnel decisions aren't always made on a strict, unforgiving "absolutely need/absolutely don't need" basis, especially with a "flexible" team like the Wings. So, while we may not absolutely, unequivocally need a guy like Hossa, he would certainly be a phenomenal addition and is therefore worth at least a generic phone call expressing interest in his services. Furthermore, I question the notion that all we "need" to do is "fill out the bottom of our roster." In my opinion, "the bottom" is set on both forward and D. Regarding the former, we have names like Maltby, McCarty, Hudler, Helm and Kopecky to work with. Regarding the latter, we have that pesky logjam everyone's talking about, with Lebda, Lilja, Meech, Quincey, Ericsson and Kindl all battling for the same one or two spots on the blue line. The point here is that if Holland is going to make a move for someone, that someone might as well be a top-tier someone (doesn't have to be Hossa), as we have more than enough secondary scorers (Flip, Sammy, Homer, etc.), energy guys, and depth defensemen. Even if Holland has no interest in Hossa, it might be worth getting his fingers in that pie, if only to screw with the Sharks and Stars, who will surely be making calls of their own.

I'm going to spin off this point a bit. Sure we don't need Hossa. But by adding him, he makes a lot of other options unnecessary. With a guy like Hossa we can go young for that #4 defensive spot. Not only because he provides a lot of extra goals, but also because he's a top 5 two-way forward along with Z and Pavel. He'd be a seemless integration into our team defense scheme.