Some good news for Red Wings

[thedisappearer 291]

If you take Homer away from Z and Pavel you may as well trade him as he'd be useless.

If he can't crash the net for other guys, then trade him while his stock is moderately high. I'll take a 4th rounder, plug Franzen in his place and let 4 other guys fight it out for 2nd PP time.

(Hell, this site has his potential as "third line winger"... make that a 5th rounder)

[puckbags 863]

How about we start the season right now with the same team we finished with last year minus Dom and we win the cup again. That would be fun !!

[puckbags 863]

I'd rather pay Rolston 4 million than Filpulla right now. And we've seen that picking up veterans tends to bode well for us, so I don't really buy any bashing his age.

WTf? first of all Flip is not going to get 4 million, but to suggest paying Rolston more than you would play Flip right now is just plain ignorant. Flip is 24 and has potential at the progression he's on to get 30 goals more than a few times. Rolston will have no chance of getting 30 goals on the Wings and probably only has a couple of years left in those legs. Priority number 1 is getting Flip signed and then they will go out and look for some other pieces.

[Dabura 12,207]

Unless youre really dense, the connection is clear. All I was saying is its no more reasonable to expect Rolston to sign for 1 year at 5M or 3 years at 2.5M - i.e. the only circumstances under which we would sign Rolston - than it is for Hossa to sign at 1 year for 3M.

That's absolutely laughable. I understand and respect your point that neither Hossa nor Rolston is going to sign a one-year deal at this point in their respective careers, but your value judgment is way off here -- and in this thread in general, it seems. To address the Hossa-Rolston comparison: the former could easily fetch 9 on the open market, whereas the latter will ultimately get something in the neighborhood of 4. And I'll tell you why:

Hossa - A lights-out, world-class scoring forward with a strong defensive game, of which there are barely a dozen in the NHL.

Rolston - A solid second-liner with a great defensive game.

Yes, yes, I know -- Brian Rolston can walk on water and turn water into wine. He can't, however, maintain his recent production in Motown. This is a no-brainer. Rolston's production has been what it's been not just because he's a good player, but also because he has gotten a ton of ice time, played with the likes of Gaborik, and manned the point on the PP. Those are things he wouldn't get with the Wings, for reasons others have already explained.

So, again, pass on Rolston.

[VM1138 1,921]

That's absolutely laughable. I understand and respect your point that neither Hossa nor Rolston is going to sign a one-year deal at this point in their respective careers, but your value judgment is way off here -- and in this thread in general, it seems. To address the Hossa-Rolston comparison: the former could easily fetch 9 on the open market, whereas the latter will ultimately get something in the neighborhood of 4. And I'll tell you why:

Hossa - A lights-out, world-class scoring forward with a strong defensive game, of which there are barely a dozen in the NHL.

Rolston - A solid second-liner with a great defensive game.

Yes, yes, I know -- Brian Rolston can walk on water and turn water into wine. He can't, however, maintain his recent production in Motown. This is a no-brainer. Rolston's production has been what it's been not just because he's a good player, but also because he has gotten a ton of ice time, played with the likes of Gaborik, and manned the point on the PP. Those are things he wouldn't get with the Wings, for reasons others have already explained.

So, again, pass on Rolston.

Why not just put him with Frazen, Zetterberg, or Datsyk and give him second line minutes? He'll still score more goals than Filpulla, most likely. That's not a knock on Filpulla, but Rolston has been huge for Minnesota. Reduced minutes equals less scoring, but it's still more than any other second liner we have (except maybe Franzen on his hot streak).

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Stand Pat..

We won the cup, There is no one in FA that will fit our need for the price we want.. I'd prefer to get rid of Sammy and Hudler if ANYTHING.. Sammy doesn't provide enough offense to play on the 2nd line and isn't intense enough to play on the 3rd line.. Hudler cant be a 4th line/PP specialist anymore, If you cant make room for him on the 2nd.. Then ship him out give him a chance to play somewhere else.

Idealy i'd like to see what we can get out of both of them.. Get a Stephen Weiss, Eric Cole, Trent Hunter.. Somebody who can play both the 2nd/3rd line effectively.. Along with moving the 2 for 1.. You make space for Abdelkader/Helm to come in..

[HenryMalredo 2]

It would be great to have Rolston, but he would be too expensive for what the team needs. Theres little point to pay Rolston $4-5 million to be a 2nd or 3rd liner.

[egroen 384]

The sheer amount of points Samy and Hudler have brought for their paltry salaries is ridiculous:

Samuelsson:

2006 71gp 23g 22a 45pts Playoffs 6gp 0g 1a 1pt

2007 53gp 14g 20a 34pts Playoffs 18gp 3g 8a 11pts

2008 73gp 11g 29a 40pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 8a 13pts

At $1.2 million a year!

Hudler (first year he got any time on the ice):

2008 81gp 13g 29a 42pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 9a 14pts

At $1 million a year, with 4th line minutes!

Who in their right mind would want to trade these points away at such ridiculously low salaries? The only thing that needs to be done with Samuelsson is to get him off the point of the 2nd PP.

Hudler was predicted to flop at every single level he has played at: Czech league, AHL, NHL -- "Too small, not fast enough" -- And every level he has played at the top of the league. Do you sense a pattern?

Babcock is making him work unbelievably hard for his playing time, and he has been complying and rewarded the team with 14 pts in the playoffs. Give the kid his freakin' minutes.

Edited June 27, 2008 by egroen

[Slave 31]

qfe hudler is ready to break out which is why i say break up the first line get pav and z on seperate lines to mess up the other teams D and still give huds 2nd line minutes playing on Hanks wing with franzen

[thedisappearer 291]

Sammy is the Raf.

Regardless of how true that may be, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[thedisappearer 291]

The sheer amount of points Samy and Hudler have brought for their paltry salaries is ridiculous:

Samuelsson:

2006 71gp 23g 22a 45pts Playoffs 6gp 0g 1a 1pt

2007 53gp 14g 20a 34pts Playoffs 18gp 3g 8a 11pts

2008 73gp 11g 29a 40pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 8a 13pts

At $1.2 million a year!

Hudler (first year he got any time on the ice):

2008 81gp 13g 29a 42pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 9a 14pts

At $1 million a year, with 4th line minutes!

Who in their right mind would want to trade these points away at such ridiculously low salaries? The only thing that needs to be done with Samuelsson is to get him off the point of the 2nd PP.

Hudler was predicted to flop at every single level he has played at: Czech league, AHL, NHL -- "Too small, not fast enough" -- And every level he has played at the top of the league. Do you sense a pattern?

Babcock is making him work unbelievably hard for his playing time, and he has been complying and rewarded the team with 14 pts in the playoffs. Give the kid his freakin' minutes.

That is awesomely true.

[up2here 41]

Wow this thread is intense! Rolston would be a great addition to this team for 3.5mil or less.He would play on the second line and probably man the point on the second PP unit. I dont see the bad and I'm not even a Rolston lover.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Wow this thread is intense! Rolston would be a great addition to this team for 3.5mil or less.He would play on the second line and probably man the point on the second PP unit. I dont see the bad and I'm not even a Rolston lover.

The bad is that Rolston cut off negotiations with his own team for offering him more than that. He's not going to give us a hometown discount.

[up2here 41]

The bad is that Rolston cut off negotiations with his own team for offering him more than that. He's not going to give us a hometown discount.

He might. Rafalski could have got more than a mil more per season last year and chose to come home. Maybe Rolston wants to come home and get away from the Wilds defensive system.

[Dabura 12,207]

Why not just put him with Frazen, Zetterberg, or Datsyk and give him second line minutes?

Why not just keep the best line hockey together and only disrupt it for a world-class player like Hossa or Sundin, not a second-liner who will put up "pretty good" numbers for half of his four-year contract before losing his greatest asset -- his speed -- to the ravages of time? Especially since Homer's production is heavily dependent on playing with both Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

The guy would have to take a big hometown discount to be worth it. I'm interested to see if he's willing to do it, but it's extremely unlikely. I'm talking 2-5-3 for two years.

[betterREDthandead 58]

He might. Rafalski could have got more than a mil more per season last year and chose to come home. Maybe Rolston wants to come home and get away from the Wilds defensive system.

Then again Rafalski didn't walk away from negotiations with the Devils demanding to be offered "fair market value." Rolston doesn't strike me as the hometownd discount type.

[up2here 41]

Then again Rafalski didn't walk away from negotiations with the Devils demanding to be offered "fair market value." Rolston doesn't strike me as the hometownd discount type.

I guess we have no way of knowing what hes thinking,but if he wants more than 4 mil I dont want him.

[detroit4life 0]

Rolston would be nice, Hossa would be nice. But come on guys, of all the UFA's out there, lets add some grit to this team. I'd like to see Malone, Avery, Clowe, Shanahan, Backes or Orpik. With Drake retiring we are losing some much needed toughness.

[up2here 41]

Rolston would be nice, Hossa would be nice. But come on guys, of all the UFA's out there, lets add some grit to this team. I'd like to see Malone, Avery, Clowe, Shanahan, Backes or Orpik. With Drake retiring we are losing some much needed toughness.

Theres that toughness thing again. WE WON THE STANLEY CUP for gods sake!! Was winning in 6 games not good enough or something?

Edited June 27, 2008 by UP2HERE

[Superman54 91]

That is why I have not once bashed Sammy ever on these boards. To get payed only 1.4 Million and putting up 40 points is more then fine by me. I would also have to pick Sundin over Rolston, even if we only get Mats for a year. This guy is outstanding for his age, and to put up numbers while playing with guys like Antropov and Ponikorovsky (however u spell it) is damn impressive to me. Not too mention I have always loved the guy.

[VM1138 1,921]

Why not just keep the best line hockey together and only disrupt it for a world-class player like Hossa or Sundin, not a second-liner who will put up "pretty good" numbers for half of his four-year contract before losing his greatest asset -- his speed -- to the ravages of time? Especially since Homer's production is heavily dependent on playing with both Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

The guy would have to take a big hometown discount to be worth it. I'm interested to see if he's willing to do it, but it's extremely unlikely. I'm talking 2-5-3 for two years.

Erm, I didn't suggest splitting up Dats and Z. Those were juts options. I think it's clear he'd play with Franzen and Filpulla and they'd tear it up. He'd also do well on a wing with Zetterberg.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Theres that toughness thing again. WE WON THE STANLEY CUP for gods sake!! Was winning in 6 games not good enough or something?

WE WON THE CUP@@@ LETS NOT IMPROVE OUR TEAM@@@@

that makes an amazing about of sense

[LeftWinger 4,962]

WE WON THE CUP@@@ LETS NOT IMPROVE OUR TEAM@@@@

that makes an amazing about of sense

...well, that does make a lot of sense, but, Drake will be retiring, there's roster spot that needs to be filled. Who's gonna fill it? You gonna let Downey play 82 games? Split it with McCarty? Kopecky may not be ready for the season...

...you are gonna have to sign someone, you are gonna need the depth. McCarty and Downey along with Kopecky are gonna split your 13th forward position. I agree don't fix what's not broke, but there is a chance to either throw a huge 1 year deal at one of two sought after forwards out there, or make a couple year deal with one of two or three other less significant UFA's and make you club even better than it was last season...

Mats Sundin or Marion Hossa - offer 1 year deals at a huge payday (unless they are looking for more than 1)

...then you have the Rolston story, we have already discussed him thouroughly

...now throw Bertuzzi in the mix along with Sergei Fedorov, both of which would come VERY cheap...

....any of the 5 mentioned above would be a very suitable and actually an upgrade to Drake. You cannot replace Drake's heart, but if we could land any of these guys, maybe a combo of 2 of them, we wouldn't be hurting our team, it'd only be knocking Sammy further down the pecking order where he belongs...

...Holland will sign someone as long as its by his terms, and this season, unlike prior, Holland has the upper hand when it comes to UFA's...

...love to see either Sundin and Rolston or Rolston and Fedorov here first choice. Any combo with Hossa and Bertuzzi along with the above mentioned second choice...

[Dabura 12,207]

Again, we have a lot of depth. Yes, Drake may retire. No offense to Drake, but whatever. Give Kopecky his minutes. If Kopecky fails, try another scrub, preferably at league-minimum. "Problem" solved.

[B.B. 0]

The sheer amount of points Samy and Hudler have brought for their paltry salaries is ridiculous:

Samuelsson:

2006 71gp 23g 22a 45pts Playoffs 6gp 0g 1a 1pt

2007 53gp 14g 20a 34pts Playoffs 18gp 3g 8a 11pts

2008 73gp 11g 29a 40pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 8a 13pts

At $1.2 million a year!

Hudler (first year he got any time on the ice):

2008 81gp 13g 29a 42pts Playoffs 22gp 5g 9a 14pts

At $1 million a year, with 4th line minutes!

Who in their right mind would want to trade these points away at such ridiculously low salaries? The only thing that needs to be done with Samuelsson is to get him off the point of the 2nd PP.

Hudler was predicted to flop at every single level he has played at: Czech league, AHL, NHL -- "Too small, not fast enough" -- And every level he has played at the top of the league. Do you sense a pattern?

Babcock is making him work unbelievably hard for his playing time, and he has been complying and rewarded the team with 14 pts in the playoffs. Give the kid his freakin' minutes.

Great, great post. Sammy and Huds always receive undeserved flack here. The production we get from guys who make that little money (and Franzen and Z) is the reason why we won the cup. Now, some of the criticism is warranted for these guys. Hudler has to become a better skater and defensive player and it may be time to see if he can play a full season on a scoring line. And, Sammy is definitely not your ideal second-line player, but he is a great 3rd/4th line player. If Sammy was able to play 3rd line minutes and was removed from the PP, then I think a lot of his flaws would be masked and he would be an even more useful player to our team.