Jiri Hudler

[dicksmack 33]

More on topic:

Hudler makes Luongo and Edler look stupid.

[Guest Crymson]

Yes, until the playoffs when there's more important things to worry about.

Also, the JLA crowd would probably echo that sentiment, since the arena always seems empty now in the regular season. A lot more fighting wouldn't hurt this team. Your problem is that you keep arguing about how not having it doesn't hurt it.

Since fighting doesn't help or hurt this team, but helps entertainment value, my conclusion is that we should have more fighters on the team.

.... THE ARENA SEEMS EMPTY NOW IN THE REGULAR SEASON BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IN MICHIGAN IS 50TH BEST IN THE NATION.

I don't know why people keep using this argument, "oh, so and so is the reason that we're not selling tickets!"

You are right---fighting does not hurt the team. What DOES hurt the team is having someone on the ice who can fight but cannot do anything else of utility. That's the problem with giving Downey or McCarty a permanent roster spot.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Crymson

[uk_redwing 495]

.... THE ARENA SEEMS EMPTY NOW IN THE REGULAR SEASON BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IN MICHIGAN IS 50TH BEST IN THE NATION.

If Don Cherry says it it must be true

[Doc Holiday 0]

If Don Cherry says it it must be true

Then I suppose there is no excuse for everyone to come to the games if we do indeed have an enforcer on the team who brings fighting in.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

.... THE ARENA SEEMS EMPTY NOW IN THE REGULAR SEASON BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IN MICHIGAN IS 50TH BEST IN THE NATION.

I don't know why people keep using this argument, "oh, so and so is the reason that we're not selling tickets!"

You are right---fighting does not hurt the team. What DOES hurt the team is having someone on the ice who can fight but cannot do anything else of utility. That's the problem with giving Downey or McCarty a permanent roster spot.

How does that hurt the team?

Downey and McCarty don't bring much besides fighting, and the team did fine with them in the lineup. Once again, someone makes an argument against enforcers which doesn't make any sense. Teams wouldn't use enforcers at all if there was such a problem as you suggest.

I think the Wings would do just fine if we played Downey all 82 games, and he wound up with a total of 2 points on the season. The team would still finish 1st in the league despite that.

[uk_redwing 495]

Then I suppose there is no excuse for everyone to come to the games if we do indeed have an enforcer on the team who brings fighting in.

Indeed. Hail Don Cherry.

[Doggy 130]

My theory - every loss of 07-08 was due to one of two reasons:

1) Aaron Downey wasn't in the lineup or;

2) We didn't have two enforcers in the lineup.

Every win we had without Downey was pure luck.

[Dabura 12,232]

How does that hurt the team?

Are you seriously asking how using a roster spot for someone who can't do anything but fight and run his mouth could hurt the team?

I like Downey as much as the next guy. Really, I do. If I could get drunk with one Wing, it'd be Aaron Downey. But -- and even he'd probably tell you this -- he's not terribly valuable to this team. Where was he in the playoffs? Not in the lineup. Why? Because all he can do is fight and run his mouth. As such, he's a liability.

[Doggy 130]

Are you seriously asking how using a roster spot for someone who can't do anything but fight and run his mouth could hurt the team?

I like Downey as much as the next guy. Really, I do. If I could get drunk with one Wing, it'd be Aaron Downey. But -- and even he'd probably tell you this -- he's not terribly valuable to this team. Where was he in the playoffs? Not in the lineup. Why? Because all he can do is fight and run his mouth. As such, he's a liability.

It's true. He would say that. Damn I love that guy. Such a top bloke.

[uk_redwing 495]

My theory - every loss of 07-08 was due to one of two reasons:

1) Aaron Downey wasn't in the lineup or;

2) We didn't have two enforcers in the lineup.

Every win we had without Downey was pure luck.

Yeh. Remember that one time we lost? Downey wasnt playing. Same with that other time...

The times we won when Downey wasnt in the line up was cos someone else got into a fight and spurred on the team.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Are you seriously asking how using a roster spot for someone who can't do anything but fight and run his mouth could hurt the team?

I like Downey as much as the next guy. Really, I do. If I could get drunk with one Wing, it'd be Aaron Downey. But -- and even he'd probably tell you this -- he's not terribly valuable to this team. Where was he in the playoffs? Not in the lineup. Why? Because all he can do is fight and run his mouth. As such, he's a liability.

The players themselves say they like having a guy like Downey who has their back out there. The Downey love got ridiculous here, but he knows his role and is effective at it, and it is valuable to the team. Having him and Drake out there made a difference.

January 15, Detroit News: "Let's face it: The one thing you know he's going to do is take care of everybody in this room," forward Kris Draper said. "That's something we haven't had in a few years."

"For example," adds Zetterberg, "the (second) time we played St. Louis away, Downey wasn't in the lineup."

That was the 3-2 loss to the Blues on Dec. 20, a game in which Babcock later fumed, "We let them dictate the physical style of play."

A week later, the Wings won in St. Louis, 5-0, "and their guys acted way differently," Zetterberg said. "Was it because Downey was in the lineup? I would say so."

Downey thought so, too, which is why he "pursued" the Wings last summer. The 6-foot, 215-pound winger finished the 2006-07 season in the minors after being waived by the Canadiens in February. An expected free-agent offer from the Flyers never materialized, either, so he approached the Wings about a tryout.

"I said to myself, 'If this team had somebody through the regular season that could take some of the load off, it'd give 'em some more energy come playoff time -- maybe take away a few extra bumps and bruises,' " said Downey, who signed a two-year, $525,000 contract Oct. 3. "That's the role I've been playing my whole career. So why not here?"

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/01/do...g_to_thank.html

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Are you seriously asking how using a roster spot for someone who can't do anything but fight and run his mouth could hurt the team?

I like Downey as much as the next guy. Really, I do. If I could get drunk with one Wing, it'd be Aaron Downey. But -- and even he'd probably tell you this -- he's not terribly valuable to this team. Where was he in the playoffs? Not in the lineup. Why? Because all he can do is fight and run his mouth. As such, he's a liability.

You haven't been a hockey fan for long have you?

Based on what you just typed, all enforcers are useless players who shouldn't belong in the NHL. In essence, what you just typed was an anti-enforcer post, since most enforcers fit into that description you just laid out for Downey.

Go watch the KHL.

[Dabura 12,232]

I've been a hockey fan since I was two years old. In that span of time, I've enjoyed success as a player and coach. Point being, kiss off.

I never said Downey isn't valuable. What I said was "Downey's not terribly valuable to the team." Fact: a player who doesn't play in the postseason is not high up on the totem pole. That's neither anti-Downey nor anti-enforcing. If it's anti-anything, it's anti-exaggeration-of-the-importance-of-enforcers.

The Wings just tore through the postseason and won the whole shebang without the aid of a serious enforcer. What's more, they didn't have many injury problems (from, you know, being beaten up because they're like, so soft) to contend with.

Downey, like I said, didn't play. Sure, he helped morale in the regular season, but the Wings would have won the Presidents' Trophy without him. If the argument is that he kept our guys from getting injured or something along those lines -- well, I seem to recall this team incurring quite a few injuries during the regular season. Mac was a late-season acquisition who didn't do a whole lot in the way of intimidating, let alone legitimately enforcing.

Dear "pro-enforcer" crowd,

Give. it. a. rest.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

.... THE ARENA SEEMS EMPTY NOW IN THE REGULAR SEASON BECAUSE THE ECONOMY IN MICHIGAN IS 50TH BEST IN THE NATION.

I don't know why people keep using this argument, "oh, so and so is the reason that we're not selling tickets!"

You are right---fighting does not hurt the team. What DOES hurt the team is having someone on the ice who can fight but cannot do anything else of utility. That's the problem with giving Downey or McCarty a permanent roster spot.

To say this is the sole reason that the Joe isn't full during the regular season is both general and broad. Is this a factor that the Wings don't sell out every game? Absolutely, however you can't attribute this one factor as the only reason for the lack of sell-outs. The bum Lions sell out every game, the Pistons are over 95% capacity on a regular basis, and I've been trying to get a set of 10 tickets together to any Tiger game possible for my family this season and have had no luck; and they play 82 home games!

One can't disagree that the economy in-conjunction with the ticket prices keep people from going to the Joe, however Detroit and it's metro area are blue collar. They love their North American stars and their occasional scuffle, the Wings' style of hockey conforms to fans like you and I who simply love the game, hell, I went to 8 games this year and would have went to more if my schedule would have let me. The fair-weather blue collar fan can't justify filling the seats if the entertainment value (in their mind) isnt there. If it was, there's no doubt in my mind you would see many more seats filled on a regular basis. As for sell outs, probably still not, but not as many empty seats as you see now if the team was a little more physical.

[Opie 308]

To say this is the sole reason that the Joe isn't full during the regular season is both general and broad. Is this a factor that the Wings don't sell out every game? Absolutely, however you can't attribute this one factor as the only reason for the lack of sell-outs. The bum Lions sell out every game, the Pistons are over 95% capacity on a regular basis, and I've been trying to get a set of 10 tickets together to any Tiger game possible for my family this season and have had no luck; and they play 82 home games!

One can't disagree that the economy in-conjunction with the ticket prices keep people from going to the Joe, however Detroit and it's metro area are blue collar. They love their North American stars and their occasional scuffle, the Wings' style of hockey conforms to fans like you and I who simply love the game, hell, I went to 8 games this year and would have went to more if my schedule would have let me. The fair-weather blue collar fan can't justify filling the seats if the entertainment value (in their mind) isnt there. If it was, there's no doubt in my mind you would see many more seats filled on a regular basis. As for sell outs, probably still not, but not as many empty seats as you see now if the team was a little more physical.

So economic factors can't be the sole reason, but lack of fighting can be a major cause.

Listen, I love a good fight and if the team were horrible, yes fighting would give people a reason to go to games. But this team is a perennial power house that wins all the time. Were there attendance issues in the Bowman era, when the wings were still near the bottom of the league every year for fighting?

Plus the Lower bowl is also mostly corporate, if I am mistaken about this please correct me, the blue collar fair-weather fan was also probably turned off by the lockout as well as the fall of the economy, which coincidentally happened at about the same time.

The "Pro-fighting" crowd over values fighting, and the "anti-fighting" crowd undervalues it, however just because the Wings were to sign an enforcer that is not going to fill the seats that are now over $185, if memory serves correct.

Signing Hossa isn't going to fill the seats, but signing a NA forward who does nothing but fight will? I just don't see that happening.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

So economic factors can't be the sole reason, but lack of fighting can be a major cause.

Listen, I love a good fight and if the team were horrible, yes fighting would give people a reason to go to games. But this team is a perennial power house that wins all the time. Were there attendance issues in the Bowman era, when the wings were still near the bottom of the league every year for fighting?

Plus the Lower bowl is also mostly corporate, if I am mistaken about this please correct me, the blue collar fair-weather fan was also probably turned off by the lockout as well as the fall of the economy, which coincidentally happened at about the same time.

The "Pro-fighting" crowd over values fighting, and the "anti-fighting" crowd undervalues it, however just because the Wings were to sign an enforcer that is not going to fill the seats that are now over $185, if memory serves correct.

Signing Hossa isn't going to fill the seats, but signing a NA forward who does nothing but fight will? I just don't see that happening.

I tend to agree. Even with the addition of Mac (regardless of the fact that he's not the enforcer he once was) he still appeals to the Michigan blue collar worker more than anyone in the league simply due to his past reputation. If Mac doesn't fill the seats at the Joe on a nightly basis, the Brashears, Laraques and Downeys of the league most certainly aren't going to. That's the fact of the matter.

[Lidstromrules16 7]

The empty seats in JLA are actually due to Jiri Hudler being on the team. Half of the arena cant see him anyway, since he is soo small, so people feel they are getting screwed out of their money, paying to see all 21 dressed wings skate, only to realize that Hudler cant be seen from any upper row of the lower section and higher.

[Opie 308]

The empty seats in JLA are actually due to Jiri Hudler being on the team. Half of the arena cant see him anyway, since he is soo small, so people feel they are getting screwed out of their money, paying to see all 21 dressed wings skate, only to realize that Hudler cant be seen from any upper row of the lower section and higher.

Pure Brilliance!

[Slave 31]

lmao nice

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

So economic factors can't be the sole reason, but lack of fighting can be a major cause.

Listen, I love a good fight and if the team were horrible, yes fighting would give people a reason to go to games. But this team is a perennial power house that wins all the time. Were there attendance issues in the Bowman era, when the wings were still near the bottom of the league every year for fighting?

Plus the Lower bowl is also mostly corporate, if I am mistaken about this please correct me, the blue collar fair-weather fan was also probably turned off by the lockout as well as the fall of the economy, which coincidentally happened at about the same time.

The "Pro-fighting" crowd over values fighting, and the "anti-fighting" crowd undervalues it, however just because the Wings were to sign an enforcer that is not going to fill the seats that are now over $185, if memory serves correct.

Signing Hossa isn't going to fill the seats, but signing a NA forward who does nothing but fight will? I just don't see that happening.

Opie I think we may have had this conversation before, and forgive me if I came across sounding like having a fighter is the solution to selling out the Joe. I was simply stating that particular factor (lack of an enforcer), just like the economy is going to keep people from going, but these aren't the only reasons. We could sit here and name off probably 10 different scenarios that would contribute for or against getting butts in the seats, I'm just saying that having a fighter may fill an extra 200-300 seats, just like a better economy may help fill 1000 or more. I'm not for or against a fighter, I'm just pro entertainment. To even play devil's advocate towards myself, say we dropped a popular 3rd line player for an enforcer, that may deter that fan base from going to game that loves this type of player and is against the violent aspect of the game. It's turning into a vicious cycle here, and the point of my earlier rant was to simply say that there is not "1" reason people aren't going to the games in the regular season.

To respond to your post quickly as well, you make all valid points. The lockout did hurt tremendously; you will find however that the availability of lower bowl seats is more prevalent these days. Pre-lockout, you couldn't go on to ticketmaster and have the option of getting these seats, nowadays they are readily available, and I think that shows that the corporate demand for seats is falling as well.

All this said, I do think the average number of ticket sales will be up next year, due to the Hossa signing and being defending Stanley Cup champions. As for sell-outs, we'll have to wait and see.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

The empty seats in JLA are actually due to Jiri Hudler being on the team. Half of the arena cant see him anyway, since he is soo small, so people feel they are getting screwed out of their money, paying to see all 21 dressed wings skate, only to realize that Hudler cant be seen from any upper row of the lower section and higher.

Needed that comic relief, good post

[Opie 308]

Opie I think we may have had this conversation before, and forgive me if I came across sounding like having a fighter is the solution to selling out the Joe. I was simply stating that particular factor (lack of an enforcer), just like the economy is going to keep people from going, but these aren't the only reasons. We could sit here and name off probably 10 different scenarios that would contribute for or against getting butts in the seats, I'm just saying that having a fighter may fill an extra 200-300 seats, just like a better economy may help fill 1000 or more. I'm not for or against a fighter, I'm just pro entertainment. To even play devil's advocate towards myself, say we dropped a popular 3rd line player for an enforcer, that may deter that fan base from going to game that loves this type of player and is against the violent aspect of the game. It's turning into a vicious cycle here, and the point of my earlier rant was to simply say that there is not "1" reason people aren't going to the games in the regular season.

To respond to your post quickly as well, you make all valid points. The lockout did hurt tremendously; you will find however that the availability of lower bowl seats is more prevalent these days. Pre-lockout, you couldn't go on to ticketmaster and have the option of getting these seats, nowadays they are readily available, and I think that shows that the corporate demand for seats is falling as well.

All this said, I do think the average number of ticket sales will be up next year, due to the Hossa signing and being defending Stanley Cup champions. As for sell-outs, we'll have to wait and see.

Sorry for misunderstanding your point, I was thinking you were saying something different than you were, DAMN INTERNETS!!!

Wait I take that back I love you internet!

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Sorry for misunderstanding your point, I was thinking you were saying something different than you were, DAMN INTERNETS!!!

Wait I take that back I love you internet!

HAHA, no worries brother, just like email, posts can be interpreted many different ways. I just enjoy the civil conversation that keeps me from being productive at work.

[Doc Holiday 0]

What is the price range for all four of the sports teams? That may give an indication of why people don't go to hockey games, or throw out a theory entirely.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Hossa - Zetterberg- Franzen

Fipulla - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Hudler - Cleary - Sammy

Maltby - Draper - Kopecky

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Stuart - Kronner

Lilja - Lebda

Man 'o Man, That is PHENOMINAL, We should have no problem bulldozing through the western conference.. Wait wait.. what do i mean by Bulldozing. i should be saying Tippy Toeing past the western conference.

Every team in the NHL players the damnedest against the NHL's Cup Winner, Not to mention we are the Red Wings, So thats added incentive. and not having 1/2 guys who can man up to the other team is sad.. I said it before and i'll get ripped for it again. We need some muscle..

Sure it was great to see Datsyuk stick up for himself and punch Roberts. and it was great to see Franzen punch Malkin while he was lying on the ground. But there is NO WAY i/we can expect them to do that for 82 games a year..

Man Up, Grow Some Balls. Admit that you loved when Downey beatdown Lappy.. You loved it when Mac and McCormick fought in the Playoffs. Admit it you would of loved if someone would of slapped McLeod when he through the octopus back into the tunnel. Admit it when your beloved Hudler got hit, you praised Lilja for standing up for him against Dion Phaneuf.