Jiri Hudler

[Doggy 130]

Until he was drafted by Detroit and became "just another prospect" Hudler WAS highly touted young talent.

But let's take a look real quick at the Hudler vs Semin comparison for last year and this year.

As neither player scored a SH point, we'll ignore SH situations completely since this is a comparison of scoring.

Hudler 06-07

647:00 ESTOI, 114:54 PPTOI

12-8-20 ESP, 3-2-5 PPP, 15-10-25 TP

Hudler 07-08

847:35 ESTOI, 218:05 PPTOI

10-17-27 ESP, 3-12-15 PPP, 13-29-42 TP

Semin 06-07

971:05 ESTOI, 440:35 PPTOI

21-14-35 ESP, 17-21-38 PPP, 38-35-73 TP

Semin 07-08

780:48 ESTOI, 281:48 PPTOI

16-6-22 ESP, 10-10-20 PPP, 26-16-42 TP

Alright, now let's see what each player would have done in those years with the same scoring rate (meaning same linemates and opposition) at the other players' amount of minutes:

Hudler 06-07 (Semin's time)

971:05 ESTOI, 440:35 PPTOI

18-12-30 ESP, 12-8-20 PPP, 30-20-50 TP

Hudler 07-08 (Semin's time)

780:48 ESTOI, 281:48 PPTOI

9-16-25 ESP, 4-16-20 PPP, 13-32-45 TP

Semin 06-07 (Hudler's time)

647:00 ESTOI, 114:54 PPTOI

14-9-23 ESP, 4-5-9 PPP, 18-14-32 TP

Semin 07-08 (Hudler's time)

847:35 ESTOI, 218:05 PPTOI

17-7-24 ESP, 8-8-16 PPP, 25-15-40 TP

Yep, that Semin has such a bright future and performed SO much better than Hudler did, he didn't just get

more ice time (and tons of it on the PP) alongside a Hart trophy candidate or anything. No sir.

Hudler>Semin.

I knew this was coming.

Eva, for someone who is so focused on stats you've really stuffed this one up if you think this proves Hudler is better than Semin offensively. Keep it simple, in 06-07 Hudler could've scored 50 points with Semin's time as opposed to Semin's 73 points. So I'm gonna have to ask - what are you trying to say with this particular pointless set of stats?

And I didn't think Ovechkin was paired with Semin very much at all.

Regardless, I think this TOI extrapolation is flawed. It doesn't mean he would've gotten anything. It means he could have. There's a big difference. Huds getting more ice time would be nice but for him, but to give him too many more minutes is probably not what is best for the team. Unfortunately.

And can I just say - I really do like Jiri Hudler and do not want him traded. Young Guns, I wasn't disagreeing with you - it just seemed at first glance that you were underestimating some other players but in hindsight you weren't really.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I like Hudler's character( I chose him as my username for gods sake), but I don't think he's nearly as good as people here are saying he is. I certainly don't think he's better than Semin. I'll probably be sad when he leaves or is traded but hes really not worth more than 2 mil or so a year

[Anomalously 0]

Yup. And thats what drives me crazy. Forget about Fleury, forget about Gionta. Or St. Louis. Or Sullivan. Or Kane. The list goes on. People can't look past a hockey players height. Thats why Hudler is stuck on the 4th line DESPITE the fact that he produces at a rate that is third among Red Wing forwards. Yes, better than Holmstrom, Cleary, Samuelsson, and Filppula.

Whats funny though, is that Hudler playing as many minutes as any one of those guys, and he'd be on pace for 50+ points.

Hudler: 847 ES, 27 ESP, 1 point every 31.4 minutes

Cleary: 779 ES, 29 ESP, 1 / 26.9

Hudler: 218, 15 PPP, 1 / 14.5

Cleary: 167 PP, 12 PPP, 1 / 13.9

Just saying.

[Yak19 303]

He plays with heart, he puts up good numbers with the ice time he receives, he is pure hilariousity after a few beers and he is cool as a cucumber in shootouts.

[Doggy 130]

I'll probably be sad when he leaves or is traded but hes really not worth more than 2 mil or so a year

Oh man, now here comes the pts/min comparison to all NHLers making $2m+ from eva thus proving you are wrong.

[Doggy 130]

Hudler: 847 ES, 27 ESP, 1 point every 31.4 minutes

Cleary: 779 ES, 29 ESP, 1 / 26.9

Hudler: 218, 15 PPP, 1 / 14.5

Cleary: 167 PP, 12 PPP, 1 / 13.9

Just saying.

No but Hudler plays with a heavier jersey because 26 needs more material than 11. If his jersey were as light as Cleary's he would be scoring a point every 24.7 mins.

Hudler>Cleary

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Oh man, now here comes the pts/min comparison to all NHLers making $2m+ from eva thus proving you are wrong.

honestly in hudler's case TOI is less important than who he's going up against when he's on the ice(other fourth liners)

also he's really not very good defensively

[Doggy 130]

honestly in hudler's case TOI is less important than who he's going up against when he's on the ice(other fourth liners)

also he's really not very good defensively

Oh no you di'int!

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

I'm surprised this comment didn't upset more people, or cause a massive overration like what usually follows here. I'm giving you a zero for the day for this.

Where youd avvy and sig go?

[norrisnick 1]

I'm surprised this comment didn't upset more people, or cause a massive overration like what usually follows here. I'm giving you a zero for the day for this.

Why would fabrications upset anyone?

[Dawgs 0]

When Hudler came up he wasnt a very good two way center in a league that demands the center position be defensively responsible unless you produce offensively like Ovechkin or Malkin. Babcock forced him to change his game if he wanted minutes. While playing fourth line minutes (if that) he has produced offensively at more than a respectable rate to the point where he is one of our top 6 scorers. And he still gets fourth line minutes. His two way game has also improved significantly. Hes only 24. Give the kid some time to develop.

Most of you guys know squat about hockey. You scream for enforcers without realizing that the game has changed to the point where an enforcer who is one dimensional (Downey) hurts your club more often than his fists help it. In the salary cap era you cant waste cap space on a guy who can only do one thing well and that one thing isnt scoring goals or stopping them from being scored. Your stuck in the '70s and '80s. Thankfully Holland and company dont take your advice or we would be a last place club.

[Doggy 130]

Most of you guys know squat about hockey. You scream for enforcers without realizing that the game has changed to the point where an enforcer who is one dimensional (Downey) hurts your club more often than his fists help it. In the salary cap era you cant waste cap space on a guy who can only do one thing well and that one thing isnt scoring goals or stopping them from being scored. Your stuck in the '70s and '80s. Thankfully Holland and company dont take your advice or we would be a last place club.

That doesn't make sense. If a player can only fight then he'll be signed for close to minimum and much cheaper than a skilled player. And if he doesn't play in the NHL, it doesn't count towards the cap. So how is it a waste of cap space?

The rest I agree with though.

[uk_redwing 495]

Most of you guys know squat about hockey. You scream for enforcers without realizing that the game has changed to the point where an enforcer who is one dimensional (Downey) hurts your club more often than his fists help it. In the salary cap era you cant waste cap space on a guy who can only do one thing well and that one thing isnt scoring goals or stopping them from being scored. Your stuck in the '70s and '80s. Thankfully Holland and company dont take your advice or we would be a last place club.

Because Downey with his even +/- and infrequent minor penalties was a reeeal hurt to the team

And YOUR stuck in 2005...I went there. Yeh. *****.

[Drimo 0]

I like Hudler for his personality. We all know how excited he was at the parade, but I have a personal story that shows how much he likes to joke around. My wife and I went to a Wings at Blue Jackets game back in March. We were down by the glass during warmup so obviously the players could see us well. Both of us were taking pictures when suddenly a puck hit the boards right at my crotch level. I looked up to see Hudler laughing at us, so it was clear that he was messing around.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I'm really late in jumping in on this thread but I like Hudler because his vision is phenomenal (way better than Sammy's), he puts up solid numbers for the amount of minutes he gets, is creative with the puck and he makes plays. Is that enough?

Sammy > Hudler IMO.

I think Sammy provides more then Hudler does.. Yet Sammy is everyone whipping boy.

See Above

Although, I will say that Sammy is better defensively than Hudler.

[egroen 384]

Hudler was expected to fail at every single level he has played at because he is too small and too slow. Czech league, AHL --> he ended up dominating both. And already he is producing in the NHL. I really hope he gets playing time with Hossa, as outside of Zets, Dats and Hossa, Hudler is easily the most talented offensive player we have. He has a wicked wrister, finds the open spaces and is also a great setup man. I love watching him play.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Because Downey with his even +/- and infrequent minor penalties was a reeeal hurt to the team

And YOUR stuck in 2005...I went there. Yeh. *****.

While I'm not defending Dawgs' comments, there is some merit to Downey not hurting the team but only helping in a one dimensional way. I by no means am anti-enforcer, but I would like the Wings' tough guy to atleast be able to play hockey and somewhat contribute on the scoreboard. While a guy like Downey helped this past season, it most certainly would've been nice to have a guy like Laraque added to the lineup next year.

[T.Low 1,011]

Is Hudler really that much smaller than, say, Scotty Gomez? Wikipedia has Gomez listed at 5'11" 200, can that be true?

[Heaton 1]

Is Hudler really that much smaller than, say, Scotty Gomez? Wikipedia has Gomez listed at 5'11" 200, can that be true?

Speed makes up for a lot, but so does hockey sense, which Hudler has a lot of.

If Hudler had Scotty Gomez speed, he'd be a superstar by now.

[Slave 31]

hudler is winger on my 2nd line in nhl08, along with myself and fil, hudler can fly

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Hudler: 847 ES, 27 ESP, 1 point every 31.4 minutes

Cleary: 779 ES, 29 ESP, 1 / 26.9

Hudler: 218, 15 PPP, 1 / 14.5

Cleary: 167 PP, 12 PPP, 1 / 13.9

Just saying.

Cleary has always been playing with better linemates. For two seasons in a row.

And just to flesh out that idea, because the lines bounced around so much last year, 13 of Clearys 42 points came while one or both of Zetterberg or Datsyuk were on the ice, while 7 of Hudler's 42 points came while one or both of Zetterberg or Datsyuk were on the ice.

Edited July 21, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Speed makes up for a lot, but so does hockey sense, which Hudler has a lot of.

If Hudler had Scotty Gomez speed, he'd be a superstar by now.

If hudler had better speed and more confidence he'd be fine, But he is too tentative to pull the trigger.

I would LOVE hudler if he would shoot more, Because if he'd shoot more, He'd surely score more. He has a pretty solid shot..

[Heaton 1]

Cleary has always been playing with better linemates. For two seasons in a row.

And just to flesh out that idea, because the lines bounced around so much last year, 13 of Clearys 42 points came while one or both of Zetterberg or Datsyuk were on the ice, while 7 of Hudler's 42 points came while one or both of Zetterberg or Datsyuk were on the ice.

Babcock said early in the season last year that he envsions the path that Hudler tales as similar to the one Tomas Holmstrom took when he started out here. Mostly on the 4th line, while filling in higher up and getting significant PP time, which Hudler is doing. I understand people look at the lines and break them down into Scoring, Scoring, Checking, Checking but that's just the basic format that you usually see on video games. Hudler is a solid, smart player with next to elite offensive ability. He's not poor defensively, but I wouldn't consider him very good either, he's what I'd say is a smart hockey player, he just knows how to make the right plays the majority of the time so that he doesn't get into trouble.

While the 'handling' of Hudler has been a hot topic issue since the beginning of last season I've always been an advocate of the way he's been used, mainly becuase he's produced well in the roles he's been in and been a widely positive impact on the team without really being put into a position to hurt it. I think we've all noticed that he rarely, if ever, played in OT during the regular season, but look at the drastic change in this past post season. Not only did he play in OT he was on the ice with under 2 mins to go in the Cup clinching game, that would've never happened in the previous season.

Basically what I'm getting at is there's nothing wrong with the role he's in, I get that there's a stigma with the 4th line and for some reason people classify that as he being in the doghouse or whatever. To me, it is just where Babcock and the coaching staff feels he is best utilized to help the team and after this post season run why question it so strongly? Hudler will continue to grow as a player, he'll move up the ranks and eventually get to the spot that some fans feel he 'rightly' belongs in. He's a 2nd year player with two quality seasons under his belt, a lot of confidence and a good fit on the team in a role that is ultimately positive for everyone.

[Dabura 12,207]

Also, consider the fact that Sammy may be gone after this season. One less player for Hudler to "compete against."

[overHandright1 2]

Most of you guys know squat about hockey. You scream for enforcers without realizing that the game has changed to the point where an enforcer who is one dimensional (Downey) hurts your club more often than his fists help it. In the salary cap era you cant waste cap space on a guy who can only do one thing well and that one thing isnt scoring goals or stopping them from being scored. Your stuck in the '70s and '80s. Thankfully Holland and company dont take your advice or we would be a last place club.

Then why has Holland offer both Downey and McCarty two way contracts? Maybe Holland thinks that both these players still have something to offer the team. Is having a couple players on the roster that could kick some a$$ asking too much? (rhetorical question) I love the Wings and am a lifelong fan, but I'm sure that I am not alone when I find myself falling asleep during some regular season snoozefest games because there's just a total lack of fisticuffs or probability of fisticuffs happening. Players like Downey and McCarty can add excitement to the atmosphere of the Joe and also pumps up the bench. When there is a fight, I'd say 99% of the fans at the Joe are on their feet (1% are pacifists or too fat to stand up) and it's all smiles up and the down the Wings' bench.