Jiri Hudler

[Heaton 1]

I'm not saying it means we can't win, I'm just saying that that's the outlook by other teams.

And they still dread playing us, every. single. time.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Yet you feel the need to argue against how the Wings do business eh? Interesting.

True or false, you want the Wings to change their style of play merely for your enjoyment and not because it will make the Wings more successful. And by change, I don't mean stay exactly the same from last year, I mean trading away players like Samuelsson, Hudler ect... for people who will drop the gloves even though the people who matter view them as vital cogs in our present success.

True and False.

If we sign a few enforcers, the team won't have to change their style of play and will still succeed as a puck possession team. At the same time I can get some more entertainment knowing that we have guys who can throw down when the going gets tough. The anti-enforcer posters believe that gloom and doom will occur if someone like Downey plays 82 games next year. I don't believe it will.

And I don't think losing Sammy or Hudler is all that catastrophic. We have enough skill players to make up for their loss and then some.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

And they still dread playing us, every. single. time.

Of course they do.

But they also feel like they can run our players without any retaliation from any tough guys. We need someone there to change that mindset around, and I'm not talking about Datsyuk punching Roberts when the refs are in between them.

[Heaton 1]

The anti-enforcer posters believe that gloom and doom will occur if someone like Downey plays 82 games next year. I don't believe it will.

No one believes that.

And I don't think losing Sammy or Hudler is all that catastrophic. We have enough skill players to make up for their loss and then some.

Ken Holland does. Mike Babcock does. Our biggest strength is our depth, dumping Samuelsson or Hudler for a couple 4-6 minute guys hurts in the regular and post-season.

[Heaton 1]

Of course they do.

But they also feel like they can run our players without any retaliation from any tough guys. We need someone there to change that mindset around, and I'm not talking about Datsyuk punching Roberts when the refs are in between them.

Why do we need that? It wasn't a problem last year or the year before.

I'm almost shocked that you still buy into the myth that if the other team gets physical with the Wings the Wings will just cower and back down, but that doesn't ever happen. If every tough guy thought they could just run around like idiots doing whatever they want, they'd do it every night. Any idea why they don't? Because they can't and the Wings players don't allow it.

Did the last two playoffs prove nothing to you?

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

No one believes that.

Ken Holland does. Mike Babcock does. Our biggest strength is our depth, dumping Samuelsson or Hudler for a couple 4-6 minute guys hurts in the regular and post-season.

If they don't, then why the hell has this maddening thread gone on for so long?

Oh well, at this point I don't think anyone knows what we're arguing about.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Why do we need that? It wasn't a problem last year or the year before.

I'm almost shocked that you still buy into the myth that if the other team gets physical with the Wings the Wings will just cower and back down, but that doesn't ever happen. If every tough guy thought they could just run around like idiots doing whatever they want, they'd do it every night. Any idea why they don't? Because they can't and the Wings players don't allow it.

Maybe I also want to see a few guys on our team run someone down and start fights. That would be good to see for a change.

[Heaton 1]

If they don't, then why the hell has this maddening thread gone on for so long?

Because you're not absorbing what people are saying. The majority of people are agreeing with you that Downey can do some good, but you are off in the deep end believing that we need to add a bunch of enforcers for pure enjoyment and to change the mind of message board posters.

[Heaton 1]

Maybe I also want to see a few guys on our team run someone down and start fights. That would be good to see for a change.

Then you'll be waiting for a long time. We won the cup with our discipline, not running around like idiots and starting fights for no reason, it serves no purpose for us.

You probably love Dan Cacillo right? And we all know Wayne Gretzky loves his tough guys, then why was it that he was sent down near the end of the year and when he came back he was wearing a choke chain? If Carcillo had any discipline he could be a very, very effective player and I'd love him on our team.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Then why would he even mention it?

When you finish last in the league every year in fighting majors, guess what, that means you're going to be looked at as being softer than other teams. It's only human nature. Trust me, if some other team was last in fighting majors every year while the Wings were near the top, you'd be thinking the same thing about that team being soft.

I'm not saying it means we can't win, I'm just saying that that's the outlook by other teams.

I'll say it again....stating that the Wings don't "carry an enforcer" does not mean they are soft.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Because you're not absorbing what people are saying. The majority of people are agreeing with you that Downey can do some good, but you are off in the deep end believing that we need to add a bunch of enforcers for pure enjoyment and to change the mind of message board posters.

I didn't say a bunch, I said one or two enforcers.

And I don't believe the majority of posters agree with me that Downey can do some good, since many posters believe that he's a waste of space who can't score and doesn't change anything around. I don't see how that means anyone is agreeing with me on the usefulness of enforcers.

I guess some posters agree and some don't.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Then you'll be waiting for a long time. We won the cup with our discipline, not running around like idiots and starting fights for no reason, it serves no purpose for us.

You probably love Dan Cacillo right? And we all know Wayne Gretzky loves his tough guys, then why was it that he was sent down near the end of the year and when he came back he was wearing a choke chain? If Carcillo had any discipline he could be a very, very effective player and I'd love him on our team.

Carcillo was injured.

[Heaton 1]

Carcillo was injured.

He was sent down because he shoved a ref.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Maybe I also want to see a few guys on our team run someone down and start fights. That would be good to see for a change.

Had you said this from the get-go, it would've probably reduced this thread greatly. If that's what you want to see, that's fine....but it isn't gonna win games. Chemistry, hard work, and team toughness are what win games.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

He was sent down because he shoved a ref.

Even more reason why I want him.

Wouldn't you want to see him shove O'Halloran the next time a goal is waved off?

[Heaton 1]

Even more reason why I want him.

Wouldn't you want to see him shove O'Halloran the next time a goal is waved off?

I don't like seeing the Wings have to kill off a 5min penalty.

10. For fighters of all sizes: Learn where competitiveness ends and chaos begins. I didn't set out to have 324 penalty minutes. There were too many major penalties and game misconducts in there. I crossed that fine line too often, and I guess I'm still learning where it is. In Nashville, I lost the fight to Hordichuk -- my first loss all year -- and I got really pissed off and pretty much just lost it. I pushed a linesman, got a 10-minute misconduct and a game misconduct. Wayne got ticked off at me and sent me down to the minors for a week. You talk about a wakeup call. Why would anyone want to mess with his own career like that?

[Slave 31]

he lost to hordichuk? hahahahahahah pavs would skool hordichuk

and think i ideally, from readin this thread, it could all be solved if we signed iginla

[Doggy 130]

Hudler could take Carcillo. No sweat.

[norrisnick 1]

Sorry to break the news to you, but toughness in hockey is often associated with fighting by both players and fans. Retaliating physically is thought to be tougher than retaliating on the scoreboard. I never said we don't fight for pucks, all I said is that at this point we have no one who can retaliate with their fists. Downey and Mac are still unsigned at this point.

And believe it or not, the rest of the league will try to take advantage of that fact. The Wings are still viewed around the league as a soft team compared to others. That's not just me talking, because you hear that all the time from opposing teams, announcers and fans.

"The whole hockey world thought the Detroit Red Wings were soft," he said. "I'm numb to that. That rings hollow with me."

The "he" in question is Ken Holland. He doesn't give a rip that people think the Wings are soft. Toughness is found between the ears. Not in your gloves.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Ah yes truly it is a testament to the character and gravitas of first citizen Hudler Felix that we should dedicate the longest and most provocative topic on the boards to his noble spirit. We shall weep, laugh, and roar with triumph as the arduous tale is told; in the end, however, our labors will be rewarded by the mere presence of Hudler the August upon the ice once again, donning Alexander's red and leading us to victory.

-Cato, 60 BCE

[Dabura 12,207]

I can't argue against posters who overlook hockey history so blatantly

You want to talk overlooking hockey history? Then I'll remind you again that the Wings are coming off winning the Cup while "carrying" only one enforcer-type player -- who 1) is not much of an enforcer at this stage in his career; 2) played meager minutes in a grinding role, not an enforcing role; 3) fought a grand total of one time (maybe two times, I don't remember) during the run.

When talking about the current team, I like to talk about the here and the now, and if I need to reference the past, I like to look to the immediate past (i.e., this past season), not, say, 1997.

It's very clear to me now that you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument, as you barely even have an argument in the first place. All you're basically saying is "I LIKE FIGHTS!"

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

You want to talk overlooking hockey history? Then I'll remind you again that the Wings are coming off winning the Cup while "carrying" only one enforcer-type player -- who 1) is not much of an enforcer at this stage in his career; 2) played meager minutes in a grinding role, not an enforcing role; 3) fought a grand total of one time (maybe two times, I don't remember) during the run.

When talking about the current team, I like to talk about the here and the now, and if I need to reference the past, I like to look to the immediate past (i.e., this past season), not, say, 1997.

It's very clear to me now that you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument, as you barely even have an argument in the first place. All you're basically saying is "I LIKE FIGHTS!"

Enough of this Stanley Cup s***. We don't win it every year, and the team that won it before us was full of enforcers. That doesn't change the fact that enforcers have always been useful throughout history and are still being used today.

Where's your argument against that?

The only argument you seem to have against enforcers having any use is that we won the Cup last year without an enforcer, even though we actually had 2. You're the one who has no argument.

You're just a blind homer who doesn't understand that enforcers are important even if Holland doesn't think so.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

"The whole hockey world thought the Detroit Red Wings were soft," he said. "I'm numb to that. That rings hollow with me."

The "he" in question is Ken Holland. He doesn't give a rip that people think the Wings are soft. Toughness is found between the ears. Not in your gloves.

Thanks for that quote.

Even Holland admits that other teams believe we're soft. I can't believe other posters were actually asking me for proof that other teams have that mindset towards Detroit.

Ah yes truly it is a testament to the character and gravitas of first citizen Hudler Felix that we should dedicate the longest and most provocative topic on the boards to his noble spirit. We shall weep, laugh, and roar with triumph as the arduous tale is told; in the end, however, our labors will be rewarded by the mere presence of Hudler the August upon the ice once again, donning Alexander's red and leading us to victory.

-Cato, 60 BCE

What does Hudler have anything to do with this thread?

[norrisnick 1]

Thanks for that quote.

Even Holland admits that other teams believe we're soft. I can't believe other posters were actually asking me for proof that other teams have that mindset towards Detroit.

Let them think the Wings are soft. They won't know what hit them.

[Dabura 12,207]

enforcers have always been useful throughout history and are still being used today.

At what point in this thread did I explicitly argue otherwise?

As I've already said, I'm not anti-enforcer; I'm against the kind of s*** you're pulling in this thread, flying off the handle and pulling generalizations, jabs and inane arguments straight out of your ass all in some misguided effort to justify something that you don't even need to justify in the first place -- that is, a fondness for fighting. You like enforcers, you like fighters -- cool! great! awesome! No one's telling you this preference is "wrong." What people are telling you is that the argumentative assertions you're making (e.g., this team is soft) are wack, and if you want people to take them seriously, you're going to need to do a s***load better than "You just don't know hockey history, man."

But let me guess: you can't be bothered to try, right?