Holland's Focus Now On Chelios

[55fan 5,133]

Best grab a snack and hit the bathroom if need be. This could get long.

I think we're all in agreement that the top 4 d-men are sewn up. For the purposes of this discussion, let's go with Kenny's statement that there will be 13 forwards and 8 d-men. I am not going to speculate on who the 13 forwards will be, only that there will be 13 of them.

Having only 13 forwards is only a good idea if a 14th forward is at hand, perhaps doubling as a #7 d-man. Welcome to the roster, Mr. Meech.

The question now is who will be in the #5, 6, and 8. Our options will be Quincey, Lilja, Lebda, Ericsson, and Cheli.

I do not think that at this point in his career Cheli is a viable #5 or 6 for the whole season. He just doesn't have that many games in him. The other 4 options will be fighting for these spots at training camp. It is possible that Meech may outplay them for the 5 or 6 spot. Either way, he'll still be the #14 forward on call and someone who would have been #5 or 6 will be 7. Clear as mud? Good. Let's move on.

I'm specifically looking at the #8 spot here. What is expected of the guy in that role?

He has to practice with the team and sit in the press box unless either two d-men are injured or a d-man and two forwards are injured. Either of these situations may happen, and indeed may happen more than once during any given year. It is unlikely that the #8 d-man will get in more than half of the games in the season. I doubt he will even play 30.

So who is the best candidate for skating in practice and sitting in the press box? Lilja and Lebda still have careers ahead of them. Neither has the "hockey smarts" that Cheli has, and Lilja makes about $400,000 more than Cheli (roughly). It wouldn't pay to have Lilja sitting when Cheli can sit for less and do as well in the 20-some games he would actually play.

If Lebda is the one who sits, I could see him asking for a trade to a team where he could actually get some more ice time. I may well be wrong on that. He may find it more pleasurable to be a small fish in the big pond. Aside from Cheli, Lebda is the one that I could see as the best #8 guy if he is beaten out for the #5 and 6 spots.

Ericsson and Quincey would be wasted at the #8 spot. Ericsson can still go down for a year without waivers. If Quincey signs a 2-way, he can play in GR and get the experience there, although he would have to clear waivers.

So, in my opinion, Lebda would be the only one of the other 4 who would be financially feasible as a #8 without wasting talent development time. He doesn't bring the mentoring and experience or hockey smarts that Cheli does. Cheli can still do the 20-some games required of a #8 d-man, while taking a relatively small amount of money and bringing in the intangibles.

When he is called up to play, he has the leadership skills needed to be a steadying force if we should lose someone in the top 4. Remember, the #8 guy would only be playing if we are decimated by injuries. When this happens, a strong personality with leadership is needed to guard against morale loss. We are fortunate to have a lot of veteran players, but in cases where the team is "battling through adversity", more is better.

Even when he is called up, the #8 guy will only be playing #6 minutes. Cheli can still do that for the small number of games he will be required to play.

If Cheli were being considered for one of the top 6, or even #7, I would say that he just doesn't have it, but for a #8, I think he's the best option.

Thank you for listening. Please feel free to take a break for food or bathroom, if you have not done so already.

[egroen 384]

You guys are nuts for trying to run him out of town. He had two bad line changes coming off an injury against Dallas in the playoffs. That's it... that's how much he has "slid".

He can still kill penalties better than most of our defenders, he's a dirty SoB that still gets under opponents' skins, he is incredible positionally and he has a great outlet pass. By the way, the refs listen to him, too.

I could see Chelios playing for the Griffins for a few years before I see him as part of the staff.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I don't understand why this guy just doesn't go out on top. This is getting ridiculous.

[egroen 384]

I don't understand why this guy just doesn't go out on top. This is getting ridiculous.

Maybe he likes the game? Likes competing and being a part of a team, especially a perennial championship contender?

Yzerman certainly did not go out on top, and if it were not for his injuries, I wouldn't be shocked if he was still playing.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

You guys are nuts for trying to run him out of town. He had two bad line changes coming off an injury against Dallas in the playoffs. That's it... that's how much he has "slid".

He can still kill penalties better than most of our defenders, he's a dirty SoB that still gets under opponents' skins, he is incredible positionally and he has a great outlet pass. By the way, the refs listen to him, too.

I could see Chelios playing for the Griffins for a few years before I see him as part of the staff.

He had more than two bad line changes. He looked slow and lost out there against Dallas, especially at the end. The big question is if that was injury or he just had nothing left in the tank.

His PK is one of the few things he still does bring to this team. But now that's less of a factor since we've got Stuart.

Chelios is not the nasty defenseman he used to be. He runs his mouth and may irritate guys, but he's not physical like he used to be. And I don't see how you could possibly know that refs listen to him.

I'm not trying to run him out of town. I just think he has diminished value to this team, even at bargain basement prices.

[Louisville 112]

I don't understand why this guy just doesn't go out on top. This is getting ridiculous.

lol

The guy just wants to play hockey at a limted role and at a league minimum salary no less, leave him alone. It's not his fault we are so close to the cap. I love Ken Holland and all but it's seems were at a no win situation with this, unless he can fetch something decent back with a trade.

I don't see why we just don't sign everyone to 2 way contracts and be over the cap until training camp. Let them show who is worth their dollars.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

It was only several months ago where everyone here was making those "What's to stop Chris Chelios" jokes, but now everyone suddenly wants him gone.

I don't understand what he's done that people now want him to leave after praising him not too long ago.

[stud_defenseman 1]

Not everyone is going to accept a two-way deal.

[egroen 384]

Chelios has said he would play for the Motor City Mechanics if he could not play for the Wings.

All that has changed is he had a lackluster series against Dallas. I am more than willing to attribute that to his injury before I throw him off the bus. I need to see a lot more of him "slipping" to not want someone of his caliber at league minimum.

(He is talking to the refs all game long, and you can tell their reaction to him is different than other players yapping their mouths -- they'll nod their heads up and down when he is talking, don't immediately turn away, etc.... just something I have noticed.)

None of Lilja, Meech, Lebda or Quincey have enough talent or potential to consider Chelios as hindering it.

Edited August 1, 2008 by egroen

[Opie 308]

It was only several months ago where everyone here was making those "What's to stop Chris Chelios" jokes, but now everyone suddenly wants him gone.

I don't understand what he's done that people now want him to leave after praising him not too long ago.

He got injured and wasn't the same player in the postseason (with a leg injury). So instead of it being he was injured and wasn't 100% (viable reason for Cleary) it is he is old and can't play.

I am in the "I trust Holland and Babs" mode right now and have been for 2 years, so if Holland and Babs think he is a worthy component for this team I will leave it in their hands.

What I find amazing is that with cheli killing the pp and logging low minutes isn't good enough for most of this board, yet what exactly is Maltby going to be doing next season? And how many people on here are up in arms about Malts saying he should walk away? He was less of a factor in the post season than Cheli, oh but wait he was injured so it is ok!

Edited August 1, 2008 by Opie

[egroen 384]

People are already starting to get on Maltby's case -- he was playing great hockey at the end of the season before he was injured. Sort of a non-factor in the games he did come back for in the playoffs, as well as a lot of lackluster games during the season.

It'll be interesting when his contract runs out after 2010... guys like Abdelkader, Helm and a few others will be chomping at the bit and we will be at a similar logjam on forwards as we now are on defencemen.

[Guest mindfly]

Maybe holland felt the pressure from the Illitch family to get him signed cause chelios is an american hockey player almost with legendary status, which means the crowd love him, which means more $$$ ?

Or am I just a "cospiracy" type person?

[#19=Legend 29]

I really think that Cheli wants to play in the Winter Classic. He said a few months ago that he wants to play in it.

Especially against s***cago

Edited August 1, 2008 by #19=Legend

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I love how everyone just sees his age and automatically says retire. The man's a machine... he's gonna make Jack Lalane seem like a gimp. I highly doubt he's given up the title of exercising the most of anyone on the team. I'm also sure he's at venice beach daily as he usually is during of offseason.

Above and beyond all of that, it's a business decision.

Mr. I and Cheli are in bed together as far as business goes, cheli's chili helps promote the red wings, and red wings fans party at his restaurants. That relationship won't die when he stops playing, but it won't be as strong.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

They won't let him go just yet. And obviously, it won't be a two-way deal, as theres no way they'd expose him to waivers.

If anything, this could be Chelios' most important season with the Wings in the past few years, as we could see 1 - maybe even 2 - young Dmen on the roster and Chelios' mentoring is essential to their progress. At this point I think management is looking a lot more at his bulldog type mentality and leadership than anything. And in that, hes valuable. As it stands, we won't even be at the cap with likely 3 goaltenders at least capable of playing back-up, 10 Dmen capable of playing regular shifts, and (after one of Dmac or Downey) we'll have probably 14 capable regular NHL forwards, if not more. Even after trading 1 or 2 Dmen, that still leaves us with 8 Dmen.

The likelihood that we'll need to make a decent-sized deadline addition is pretty much slim to none, and thats the only way in which re-signing Chelios' would be detrimental to the team.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

He got injured and wasn't the same player in the postseason (with a leg injury). So instead of it being he was injured and wasn't 100% (viable reason for Cleary) it is he is old and can't play.

I am in the "I trust Holland and Babs" mode right now and have been for 2 years, so if Holland and Babs think he is a worthy component for this team I will leave it in their hands.

What I find amazing is that with cheli killing the pp and logging low minutes isn't good enough for most of this board, yet what exactly is Maltby going to be doing next season? And how many people on here are up in arms about Malts saying he should walk away? He was less of a factor in the post season than Cheli, oh but wait he was injured so it is ok!

For me, both players have immunity and I'll never want them gone. I just don't understand why people would treat Chelli any differently than someone like Maltby or Drapes, all of which have been Wings for a long time. I guess we agree on that point.

[joshy207 156]

55 fan, you make a strong case. I agree with your point that Chelios is the best of the available candidates for the #8 spot.

Quincey doesn't have to have a 2-way contract to be sent down. 1-way, 2-way, 3-way simply means that they have different pay scales depending on what roster they're on. Damian Rhodes was on a 1-way (NHL) contract but was playing in the ECHL. I think Arturs Irbe was in the same situation.

Still doesn't mean I want to see Chelios back. I'd rather see Lebda, Quincey, Meech and Lilja (yack) split 5 & 6 minutes in a rotation. But hey, whatever.

As for Maltby, I wasn't happy he was re-signed and was pissed when I found out it was for 3 years.

Edited August 1, 2008 by joshy207

[jvxp 0]

The guy really should retire. It's not really a knock on Chelios, I just feel that his time has come, there are many more players available that will be able to contribute more to the team than Chelios.

I totally agree. What is he going to try to play till 60?

[jvxp 0]

This is just sentimental bulls***. If Chelios wants to retire a Red Wing now is the time. How is it the right thing to keep him in the lineup and the kids out? Chelios used to be one of the best defensemen, past tense. The only reason to keep Chelios around is sentimental. It surprises me that Chelios would wanna stick around as a charity case, because that's what it is.

so true!!

[Booster313 138]

For those of you who feel that Chelios fell off a little bit last year keep in mind that he broke a bone in his leg and played with that injury for the entire second half of the year and the playoffs. He had surgery after the season was over. So let's see how he recovers before we write him off. Chelios is still a soild 4-5-6 defenseman in this league.

[Zion 93]

This will be his final season, and it will be a fun one.

You Chelios haters can kiss my ass. He's been just what our top-notch defense needs in terms of leadership, defensive-smarts and character.

He'll transition into a coaching role this year, unless Chicago offers him something better... and they may.

[jvxp 0]

This will be his final season, and it will be a fun one.

You Chelios haters can kiss my ass. He's been just what our top-notch defense needs in terms of leadership, defensive-smarts and character.

He'll transition into a coaching role this year, unless Chicago offers him something better... and they may.

Whatever................your high. Lets hope Chicago offers him something better then. Your just trying to stir the pot.

[IceMunkee 15]

I am not going to be a complete tool and say whatever Cheli wants, Cheli gets. That being said, he is a solid depth defender and a character guy. Like Boost said he is a solid 4-5-6 and on some teams he may even be a 3-4. I don't really get it sometimes on here, why we like to just unbutton our pants and sit on one of our players and poop till it hurts. I am far some saying that we are lost without him but his leadership is nothing to shrug at. I think sometimes we are spoiled with our team, so much so that we think mid-level players are complete garabage. Go get Cheli, Holland. I mean we know you have done such a crappy job signing this season!

[weGotTheCup89 41]

I completely agree with Kenny right here that Chelios should be our next priority. If anyone watched the post-game on local Detroit TV after we won the Cup, Chelios said "he'd definitely back for next year to hopefully do it again." If Chelios wants to come back, he will come back. At this point of his career he is invaluable in training our younger players, and I truly believe that experience will be worth more than $525,000 for those players. As longer as Chelios' body can handle it, I will gladly welcome him back. Also he has to outlast Todd Bertuzzi... so until Bertuzzi retires I expect Cheli to play

[jvxp 0]

I completely agree with Kenny right here that Chelios should be our next priority. If anyone watched the post-game on local Detroit TV after we won the Cup, Chelios said "he'd definitely back for next year to hopefully do it again." If Chelios wants to come back, he will come back. At this point of his career he is invaluable in training our younger players, and I truly believe that experience will be worth more than $525,000 for those players. As longer as Chelios' body can handle it, I will gladly welcome him back. Also he has to outlast Todd Bertuzzi... so until Bertuzzi retires I expect Cheli to play

What does this have to do with Cheli ?