Holland's Focus Now On Chelios

[up2here 41]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det080731.html

Everytime I think Chelios is done as a Wing something comes up.

[toby91_ca 620]

The guy really should retire. It's not really a knock on Chelios, I just feel that his time has come, there are many more players available that will be able to contribute more to the team than Chelios.

[stud_defenseman 1]

If someone is going to be traded I imagine it will be a defenseman.

We will have Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Lebda

Chelios - Meech

Ericsson - Quincey

I imagine it will be Lilja, even though they just signed him. I still don't quite understand why they would work to get Cheli signed and get rid of Lilja who is younger and slightly better.

Cheli is gonna have to take a 2-way contract if we want to keep everyone.

[stud_defenseman 1]

If someone is going to be traded I imagine it will be a defenseman.

We will have Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Lebda

Chelios - Meech

Ericsson - Quincey

I imagine it will be Lilja, even though they just signed him. I still don't quite understand why they would work to get Cheli signed and get rid of Lilja who is younger and slightly better.

Cheli is gonna have to take a 2-way contract if we want to keep everyone.

[Zion 93]

Is it possible for two-way contracts for Chelios, Downey/McCarty and Meech?

[puckloo39 5,686]

Re-sign Cheli for less money, let him play when he's needed (he clearly understands the situation), and let him leave the league on his own terms, as a Red Wing. It's the right thing to do, and he deserves it.

And we deserve one last season with one of the best defensemen in the game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

At this point in their respective careers: Meech (Cap Hit: $483,000, potential of 82 games barring health) > Chelios (Cap Hit: $525,000 roughly, potential of 50-65 games)

[Cicada 4]

Re-sign Cheli for less money, let him play when he's needed (he clearly understands the situation), and let him leave the league on his own terms, as a Red Wing. It's the right thing to do, and he deserves it.

And we deserve one last season with one of the best defensemen in the game.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Re-sign Cheli for less money, let him play when he's needed (he clearly understands the situation), and let him leave the league on his own terms, as a Red Wing. It's the right thing to do, and he deserves it.

And we deserve one last season with one of the best defensemen in the game.

Every single year since the lockout I've been all for letting him leave when he's ready because he was very valuable to the team in his role, his salary was great in the Cap era, and he was reliable for his pairing. That is until this past season (especially the playoffs). Look, I'm all about loyalty....its one of the main reasons the Wings are successful, but this is the first time since he's been signing one year deals where he's started to look like the money and amount of games played versus his level of play have started to not only even off, but is finally heading in his favor rather than the Wings.

[spyder 0]

Can never have enough hall of fame defensemen on a team.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Re-sign Cheli for less money, let him play when he's needed (he clearly understands the situation), and let him leave the league on his own terms, as a Red Wing. It's the right thing to do, and he deserves it.

And we deserve one last season with one of the best defensemen in the game.

This is just sentimental bulls***. If Chelios wants to retire a Red Wing now is the time. How is it the right thing to keep him in the lineup and the kids out? Chelios used to be one of the best defensemen, past tense. The only reason to keep Chelios around is sentimental. It surprises me that Chelios would wanna stick around as a charity case, because that's what it is.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Can never have enough hall of fame defensemen on a team.

You can when their return isn't as great as someone else that'll be making less and play more games.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

This is just sentimental bulls***. If Chelios wants to retire a Red Wing now is the time. How is it the right thing to keep him in the lineup and the kids out? Chelios used to be one of the best defensemen, past tense. The only reason to keep Chelios around is sentimental. It surprises me that Chelios would wanna stick around as a charity case, because that's what it is.

That's pretty much how I feel.

I'm sure Yzerman wanted to keep playing too, but he saw the writing on the wall. Chelios has diminishing value, especially with so many kids that could be playing.

No matter how little he's paid, it's become less and less worth it for the Wings to have him taking up a roster spot and only playing a portion of the season as a bottom pairing guy.

And before anyone mentions mentoring, we're talking about a top 4 defense with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall. There's a lot of experience and mentoring already there.

Edited August 1, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[55fan 5,133]

Cheli is like an extra coach on skates. He is willing to be an 8th d-man, which basically means that he will spend time on the ice in practice and occasionally in games when needed. It doesn't sound like much from a playing perspective, but if a d-man goes down, we've got a guy who, when rested and not injured, is still able to get the job done.

If we have another time like last February (minus Cheli's broken leg, of course), Cheli provides on- and off-ice leadership at a moment's notice. You just don't get that kind of depth for that price anywhere else. Dollar for dollar, the total package that Cheli brings to the table is one of the best deals out there, and he's been giving us that deal for years.

I went to a Wild game last year and when the guys were skating around for warmups, a Wild fan next to me was yelling at Cheli to "retire already" when he skated by. The guy was nice and friendly and a season ticket holder who was kind enough to tell me where everything was since it was my first game. I asked if he really thought Cheli should be done with hockey. He laughed and said, "no, I just want him off the ice. He's still dangerous."

If Cheli were still demanding top dollar, then, yes, I would say he doesn't have what it takes, but for the price, he's still a good deal.

ETA: I was typing this post at the same time as the one above, so I didn't know at the time that mentoring was not a valid point. I had assumed that the top 4 guys would be busy with their own game.

Edited August 1, 2008 by 55fan

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

That's pretty much how I feel.

I'm sure Yzerman wanted to keep playing too, but he saw the writing on the wall. Chelios has diminishing value, especially with so many kids that could be playing.

No matter how little he's paid, it's become less and less worth it for the Wings to have him taking up a roster spot and only playing a portion of the season as a bottom pairing guy.

And before anyone mentions mentoring, we're talking about a top 4 defense with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall. There's a lot of experience and mentoring already there.

But HS, what about MENTORING? Who gonna teach these kids?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Cheli is like an extra coach on skates. He is willing to be an 8th d-man, which basically means that he will spend time on the ice in practice and occasionally in games when needed. It doesn't sound like much from a playing perspective, but if a d-man goes down, we've got a guy who, when rested and not injured, is still able to get the job done.

If we have another time like last February (minus Cheli's broken leg, of course), Cheli provides on- and off-ice leadership at a moment's notice. You just don't get that kind of depth for that price anywhere else. Dollar for dollar, the total package that Cheli brings to the table is one of the best deals out there, and he's been giving us that deal for years.

I went to a Wild game last year and when the guys were skating around for warmups, a Wild fan next to me was yelling at Cheli to "retire already" when he skated by. The guy was nice and friendly and a season ticket holder who was kind enough to tell me where everything was since it was my first game. I asked if he really thought Cheli should be done with hockey. He laughed and said, "no, I just want him off the ice. He's still dangerous."

If Cheli were still demanding top dollar, then, yes, I would say he doesn't have what it takes, but for the price, he's still a good deal.

As recent as the 06/07 season I'll give you, but last year his age finally started to catch up to his play *based on his salary*.

[Guest nutz2u]

I was surprised at how many here thought Chelly wouldn't be back, especially after Flips signing was announced. Holland stated weeks ago that Chelly had a spot on the roster. The man and the organization has too much class to turn around and tell Chelly they didn't have room for him. ***** all you want about how useless he is but I think Wings management has a bit more knowledge than the "experts" on this board.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I was surprised at how many here thought Chelly wouldn't be back, especially after Flips signing was announced. Holland stated weeks ago that Chelly had a spot on the roster. The man and the organization has too much class to turn around and tell Chelly they didn't have room for him. ***** all you want about how useless he is but I think Wings management has a bit more knowledge than the "experts" on this board.

Who said he was useless? What the majority of us are saying is that what he offers to the team versus what they could get elsewhere has finally met and its now looking more in their favor to let one of the log-jammed players in.

BTW, if someone stated that the "Wings management has a bit more knowledge than the "experts" on this board" in every thread, what would be the point of having forums? They can (and do) have more knowledge than anyone here, but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to discuss what we all feel is the best route for the team to take.

[edicius 3,269]

I love it every year when his advancing age takes center stage, but as much as I love Cheli...he really should retire. Retire and take a position within the organization. Maybe in PR.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I love it every year when his advancing age takes center stage, but as much as I love Cheli...he really should retire. Retire and take a position within the organization. Maybe in PR.

Actually, I think he'd do great things for the game working directly for the NHL. He seems like a good fit and the type of mind that's needed to help sort-of adjust the sails slightly from where the NHL is heading.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

I was surprised at how many here thought Chelly wouldn't be back, especially after Flips signing was announced. Holland stated weeks ago that Chelly had a spot on the roster. The man and the organization has too much class to turn around and tell Chelly they didn't have room for him. ***** all you want about how useless he is but I think Wings management has a bit more knowledge than the "experts" on this board.

The "experts" here all have a clear judgement left unbiased by any sort of personal relationship to Chelios, can you say the same about the Wings management who has known Chelios for years?

[puckloo39 5,686]

This is just sentimental bulls***. If Chelios wants to retire a Red Wing now is the time. How is it the right thing to keep him in the lineup and the kids out? Chelios used to be one of the best defensemen, past tense. The only reason to keep Chelios around is sentimental. It surprises me that Chelios would wanna stick around as a charity case, because that's what it is.

I don't agree with a single thought here, and that's not what I said. Cheli wouldn't be a charity case, he would be a wily veteran. You can't buy experience. He wouldn't be keeping the kids out, he would play when needed, and Babcock would decide when that would be. He's already said he understands his role.

Loyalty is not over-rated, but it certainly isn't what it used to be. It's men like Chris Chelios who bring character to the game and who draw some fans (like me) to games. Too bad hockey is starting to look like corporate world ... kick the veterans to the curb and bring in the replacements, younger and cheaper.

Thank goodness the Red Wings understand the intangibles!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I don't agree with a single thought here, and that's not what I said. Cheli wouldn't be a charity case, he would be a wily veteran. You can't buy experience. He wouldn't be keeping the kids out, he would play when needed, and Babcock would decide when that would be. He's already said he understands his role.

Loyalty is not over-rated, but it certainly isn't what it used to be. It's men like Chris Chelios who bring character to the game and who draw some fans (like me) to games. Too bad hockey is starting to look like corporate world ... kick the veterans to the curb and bring in the replacements, younger and cheaper.

Thank goodness the Red Wings understand the intangibles!

Loyalty aside, it certainly makes more sense to pay someone $483,000 and play 82 games than it would $525,000 for roughly 60 games worth of service. The wily veteran argument in this case is a grasp at straws.

Again, this wouldn't be an issue at all if Cheli's play warranted his salary and amount of games. The problem is that based on last years performance, they don't and now he'll be a year older. I'm all about loyalty, but how long can you continue paying a player when its not in your teams best interest anymore?

[joshy207 156]

I don't agree with a single thought here, and that's not what I said. Cheli wouldn't be a charity case, he would be a wily veteran. You can't buy experience. He wouldn't be keeping the kids out, he would play when needed, and Babcock would decide when that would be. He's already said he understands his role.

Loyalty is not over-rated, but it certainly isn't what it used to be. It's men like Chris Chelios who bring character to the game and who draw some fans (like me) to games. Too bad hockey is starting to look like corporate world ... kick the veterans to the curb and bring in the replacements, younger and cheaper.

Thank goodness the Red Wings understand the intangibles!

The mere fact that Chelios would be on the roster means that one of Lebda, Meech, Quincey, or Lilja will have to be traded or placed on waivers and risk being lost for nothing. If it's one of the first three, is it worth giving up a guy who can potentially play here for the next 5-10 years to let Chelios extend his career by 50 games or so? And is the same situation going to play out next year, when Ericsson can't be sent down? At what point do you say, that's enough?

The loyalty that Ilitch and Holland show to their players is really something unique in pro sports, but I think they almost are too loyal, to a fault. Players have received contracts that they don't deserve, and they don't know when to just let go. And younger, cheaper replacements have been brought into pro hockey since... well... the beginning of pro hockey. Look at NHL rosters from the 80s... it's rare to find 2 or 3 guys over the age of 30. Not 40, 30. Guys who could still play the game were being forced out at 31, 32. A player who was over 35 was considered a living fossil. It's not a new practice by any stretch.

Also, at what point to ability and physical limitations outweigh "experience" and "leadership"?

[puckloo39 5,686]

The mere fact that Chelios would be on the roster means that one of Lebda, Meech, Quincey, or Lilja will have to be traded or placed on waivers and risk being lost for nothing. If it's one of the first three, is it worth giving up a guy who can potentially play here for the next 5-10 years to let Chelios extend his career by 50 games or so? And is the same situation going to play out next year, when Ericsson can't be sent down? At what point do you say, that's enough?

The loyalty that Ilitch and Holland show to their players is really something unique in pro sports, but I think they almost are too loyal, to a fault. Players have received contracts that they don't deserve, and they don't know when to just let go. And younger, cheaper replacements have been brought into pro hockey since... well... the beginning of pro hockey. Look at NHL rosters from the 80s... it's rare to find 2 or 3 guys over the age of 30. Not 40, 30. Guys who could still play the game were being forced out at 31, 32. A player who was over 35 was considered a living fossil. It's not a new practice by any stretch.

Also, at what point to ability and physical limitations outweigh "experience" and "leadership"?

now, you make some good points. I am thinking that guys play longer now, simply because physical conditioning allows it... more players are still iron men in their 40's than was the case 20 years ago. Not such a bad 'dilemma' but an issue, just the same.

Hopefully, the Wings will come to an agreement with Cheli which is mutually satisfactory. Not sure about the players with contracts/not deserved part -- but watching the Bret Favre situation is painful, and I don't even care about football. If we were retaining a player who couldn't contribute and who was a boat anchor, which I do not believe would be the case with Cheli, that would be bad. Again, I don't believe he would be a detriment, if placed in the right role. I trust Cheli and Babs to handle that. Cheli would never put the Wings in the position Favre has put Green Bay.

I like the fact that Detroit is loyal to its players. I also like the fact that the Wings management finds a way to make a place for any player who has contributed as much as Cheli (or Stevie or Fisch or Dom) has to the success of this team. I firmly believe that whatever decision Kenny and Co. make about Cheli will be the correct one, and will bring no harm to the team. Take that to the bank.