Babcock speaks about line combos

[chrisdetroit 189]

If Marian is here three years, he'll blow those totals out of the water. Hossa had 100 and 92 points the previous two seasons before this most recent one (the first time Marian had a somewhat significant injury in his NHL career).

Marian has 57pts in his last 61 playoff games. If you think that's bad, then I'd hate to think what you'd say about Hull's 55 points over his last 72 playoff games...

57 points in his last 62 games. Pretty creative way to look at it.

2008 26 in 21

2007 1 in 4

2006 -

2004 4 in 7

2003 16 in 18

2002 10 in 12

2001 2 in 4

2000 0 in 6

1999 2 in 4

I look at this and say he sucked in 5 out of 8 years. If you want to average it all together I guess you could. I'm concerned though that we will get the 2007 Marian Hossa playoff performance and not the 2008. He is only 1 year removed from a poor playoff performance.

[chrisdetroit 189]

The reasons you give and the conclusion you arrive at don't match. Filppula is far better suited for a checking line role than a scoring line role. Hudler is significantly better offensively, which is why he was on the 2nd PP unit and Fil got scrap minutes here and there on the man advantage.

Wrong. Playing on the 2nd line vs the 3rd means that you get more ice time. That means that the better player both offensively and defensively gets the 2nd line ice time. Babs is not going to put give more minutes to a guy just because he has more play making ability. The better overall player will get the higher ice time. Hudler and Flip are relatively the same offensively - Huds might be better by a small amount but Flip is much better defensively that's why he should get more ice time.

[chrisdetroit 189]

If Marian is here three years, he'll blow those totals out of the water. Hossa had 100 and 92 points the previous two seasons before this most recent one (the first time Marian had a somewhat significant injury in his NHL career).

Marian has 57pts in his last 61 playoff games. If you think that's bad, then I'd hate to think what you'd say about Hull's 55 points over his last 72 playoff games...

It comes down to this. There are some concerns about Hossa. Hopefully he can answer these concerns but until he does, I'm reseving judgement:

1. He has never won anything despite being on some very good Ottawa teams most of his career.

2. 5 out of 8 years he was a no show for the playoffs including the year before last.

3. He's coming off of his worst regular season of his carrer. 66 points in 72 games and a horrendous -14. Ok he played for Atlanta but he also played for Atlanta the last 3 years.

He seems to be a bit overrated on LGW. Most of the "experts" have him as about #12 in terms of best players in the league.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Point totals aside, Hossa blows Hull out of the water in every other aspect of the game.

So Hossa hass a better shot than Hull? Didn't think so. That must not be one of the "every other aspects" that you were refering to....

[Reds4Life 51]

...

I look at this and say he sucked in 5 out of 8 years. If you want to average it all together I guess you could. I'm concerned though that we will get the 2007 Marian Hossa playoff performance and not the 2008. He is only 1 year removed from a poor playoff performance.

Yes he did suck, just like everyone else on Sens and Trashers in those respective years. Hossa now is in his prime and he is better than old Brett Hull Wings picked up in 02, that's for sure. Hull in his prime is definitely better player than Hossa ever was up to this point though.

And congrats for 5 posts in a row instead of just one..ever heard of quote function?

Edited September 1, 2008 by Reds4Life

[skacore 2]

So Hossa hass a better shot than Hull? Didn't think so. That must not be one of the "every other aspects" that you were refering to....

A better shot should tally up more points then... what are you really trying to argue here? Hull in his time in Detroit is a better all around player than Hossa in his prime...?

[Dabura 12,232]

Hossa is not a question mark; he's consistently put up solid numbers throughout his career and is currently both an elite offensive threat and one of the best two-way forwards in the game, right up there with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. The guy got a ******* hat trick against this Wings team as a Thrasher and was a royal pain in the ass in the SCF. Anyone who wants to give him a hard time about his playoff record needs to put down that cup-o-Haterade and look at Datsyuk's playoff record.

And seriously, the Hull comparison is garbage.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Hossa is not a question mark; he's consistently put up solid numbers throughout his career and is currently both an elite offensive threat and one of the best two-way forwards in the game, right up there with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. The guy got a ******* hat trick against this Wings team as a Thrasher and was a royal pain in the ass in the SCF. Anyone who wants to give him a hard time about his playoff record needs to put down that cup-o-Haterade and look at Datsyuk's playoff record.

And seriously, the Hull comparison is garbage.

My argument is that there are some concerns IMO about Hossa. He has had some poor playoff performances recently (only 2 years ago), he just came off of his worst regular season and despite being on some very good Ottawa teams most of his career, he has never played for the cup.

This happens every year. A player has a great playoff series and the hockey world goes gaga over him. Often the player then lays an egg the following year - Khabibulin, Brad Richards, Scott Neidemeir, Ray Emery, it's a long list. I hope Hossa isn't on it.

That's all I'm trying to say.

The Wings are sucessful because they are built on great talented team players we will see if Hossa fits in.

As far as Brett Hull comparisons, I agree it is ridiculous to compare a 29 year old forward with Brett Hull in his last few years of his career. I don't know why that was even brought up.

[norrisnick 1]

You are picking and chosing the stats that reinforce your argument. You want to ignore last years regular season becuse it doesn't fit your argument but then you want to include last years playoffs and ignore previous years playoffs. Incidently he played in 72 games last year so the injury argument is pretty weak.

Fact is his regular season last year wasn't great and his 6 of the 8 times he was in the playoffs he was invisible.

He's a great player but he's hasn't yet shown that he can consistantly make a difference especially in the playoffs.

I'm not picking and choosing. I'm including the past 3 seasons of regular season play because looking at one season where he played a solid chunk of it while injured would be beyond shortsighted. If you want to go back even further that's fine too. Marian has averaged 80 points per season over the last 8 seasons.

And how am I ignoring his previous playoffs? And points aren't the only way to be visible (unless your name is Brett Hull). Hossa and Alfredsson have long gotten a bum rap (starting with the Toronto media/fanbase and spreading like the plague from there) for their playoff play. They were caught trying to play ultra conservative hockey for Martin but kept getting torpedoed by Lalime cracking under pressure. Long story short, if Marian is a s***ty playoff player so are Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I highly doubt you'd be willing to make that argument.

Hossa is every bit as good as the twins. You'll see.

[chrisdetroit 189]

A better shot should tally up more points then... what are you really trying to argue here? Hull in his time in Detroit is a better all around player than Hossa in his prime...?

Just wanted to point out that you are making inaccurate statements. This was an example. No Hull at 38 isn't better than Hossa at 29 but Hossa isn't better in every aspect as you stated.

You are not being objective.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I'm not picking and choosing. I'm including the past 3 seasons of regular season play because looking at one season where he played a solid chunk of it while injured would be beyond shortsighted. If you want to go back even further that's fine too. Marian has averaged 80 points per season over the last 8 seasons.

And how am I ignoring his previous playoffs? And points aren't the only way to be visible (unless your name is Brett Hull). Hossa and Alfredsson have long gotten a bum rap (starting with the Toronto media/fanbase and spreading like the plague from there) for their playoff play. They were caught trying to play ultra conservative hockey for Martin but kept getting torpedoed by Lalime cracking under pressure. Long story short, if Marian is a s***ty playoff player so are Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I highly doubt you'd be willing to make that argument.

Hossa is every bit as good as the twins. You'll see.

I hope that you are right. I guess you can interpret things anyway you want to make your point. This is the best interpretation that I've ever heard though

points aren't the only way to be visible

which could be used against your argument when you get to this one

if Marian is a s***ty playoff player so are Datsyuk and Zetterberg

I'm getting dizzy reading this... gotta go lay down

LOL

[Guest LivingtheDream]

If that's our third line, allow me to predict here and now, our third line will lead the league in shots on goal. It's hard to slam Sammy after those two SCF solo goals in Game 1, but he better wise up - he has two line mates with good hands who have no fear in getting to the net and score.

Just think of our power play! Holy Christ, he could put out Dats, Hank and Hossa and STILL have a second unit with Mule, Flip and Hudler. For Babcock this is almost like when you play a video game and have the cheat codes to turn on all the assorted weapons and powers

[skacore 2]

I'm getting dizzy reading this... gotta go lay down

Probably for the best.

[norrisnick 1]

I hope that you are right. I guess you can interpret things anyway you want to make your point. This is the best interpretation that I've ever heard though

points aren't the only way to be visible

which could be used against your argument when you get to this one

if Marian is a s***ty playoff player so are Datsyuk and Zetterberg

I'm getting dizzy reading this... gotta go lay down

LOL

It can't be used against my argument because it is my argument. Maybe you can work it out during your nap...

[dallas27 7]

I look at this and say he sucked in 5 out of 8 years. If you want to average it all together I guess you could. I'm concerned though that we will get the 2007 Marian Hossa playoff performance and not the 2008. He is only 1 year removed from a poor playoff performance.

This is what you wrote above this post

You are picking and chosing the stats that reinforce your argument.

What's that saying, it's something about a kettle and a pot. I'm not sure off-hand. Do you know it?

chrisdetroit ftw!!!1!!!!!!!11

Edited September 2, 2008 by dallas27

[Dabura 12,232]

This happens every year. A player has a great playoff series and the hockey world goes gaga over him.

Clearly you haven't done your homework. As I said (thanks for reading), Hossa has been good ever since his rookie season. As I also said, the proof is in his playoff numbers, which are every bit as good as Datsyuk's -- and Datsyuk's had the luxury of playing on the Wings his entire career. And even then, he's still had disappointing showings. Point being, it goes both ways; if there are concerns about Hossa, there are concerns about Datsyuk.

Of course, for those of us who prefer not to talk out of our asses about such things, we know neither of them is a question mark going into this season. It's not a stretch to say Hossa could become this team's #1 forward.

[egroen 384]

Brett was in Detroit 3 years, he had point totals of 63, 76 and 68. Marian Hossa had 66 points last year. Hmmm maybe you should put down the Hossa crack pipe and start checking your facts.

I'm hoping Hudler will fit into the "Hull role" -- he has the wrister to be an effective sniper but only feistier and a better playmaker.

Hossa has been overrated around here a bit by some - those who insisted he would put up 100+ points with Filppula as his center (who would be a significant downgrade for Hossa, despite the teams he has been on). I think Filppula is much better suited to a third line with this Wings team.

[Shutemdown 23]

Clearly you haven't done your homework. As I said (thanks for reading), Hossa has been good ever since his rookie season. As I also said, the proof is in his playoff numbers, which are every bit as good as Datsyuk's -- and Datsyuk's had the luxury of playing on the Wings his entire career. And even then, he's still had disappointing showings. Point being, it goes both ways; if there are concerns about Hossa, there are concerns about Datsyuk.

Of course, for those of us who prefer not to talk out of our asses about such things, we know neither of them is a question mark going into this season. It's not a stretch to say Hossa could become this team's #1 forward.

Alright.

Datsyuk used to have the reputation of being invisible in the playoffs. He could have a stellar performance every year, and come playoff time, he would just disappear. That, however, is not the case anymore. He has gotten better with age.

In Hossa's case, he's been a role-player in the playoffs for any team he's with since he began playing. To sit here and say he had a horrible playoff run 2 years ago, ok? Based on what? His own past performances? If that's the case, it's no argument at all... we all know players fluctuate, go hot/cold, and some of it could have to do with the team he's on.

Specualte all you want, saying Hossa plays lackluster in the playoffs is absurd, just like saying Datsyuk is horrible in the playoffs.

Both will be great contenders and both will have great seasons this year.

[Guest blueadams]

LW: Hossa

C: Datsyuk

RW: Holmstrom

LW: Hudler

C: Zetterberg

RW: Franzen

LW: Cleary

C: Filppula

RW: Samuelsson

LW: Maltby

C: Draper

RW: Kopecky/Downey/McCarty

D: Lindstrom

D: Rafalski

D: Kronwall

D: Stuart

D: Lebda

D: Lilja/Chelios

G: Osgood

G: Conklin

The ONE issue I have is that I'd like to see Flip winging the 2nd line. Your thoughts?

[Calgary Wings Fan 0]

Looks good to me. No Flip should center the third line IMO.

LiNdstrom...wow just wow

[eva unit zero 271]

My thoughts?

Pre-existing thread on subject can be found here

[swiss_fan 3]

do you really think you could developp something that hasn t been developped yet about the lines combo in this thread?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Finally, a thread where we can talk about line combos.

Fillpulla - Datsyuk - Hossa

Franzen - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Maltby - Draper - Cleary

Lilja - McCarty - Downey (this is a new line I thought up recently)

[Jasper84 333]

Fillpulla - Datsyuk - Hossa

Franzen - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Maltby - Draper - Cleary

Lilja - McCarty - Downey (this is a new line I thought up recently)

You're supposed to follow in the footsteps of others and create yet another thread with your line combos.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

LW: Hossa

C: Datsyuk

RW: Holmstrom

LW: Hudler

C: Zetterberg

RW: Franzen

LW: Cleary

C: Filppula

RW: Samuelsson

LW: Maltby

C: Draper

RW: Kopecky/Downey/McCarty

D: Lindstrom

D: Rafalski

D: Kronwall

D: Stuart

D: Lebda

D: Lilja/Chelios

G: Osgood

G: Conklin

The ONE issue I have is that I'd like to see Flip winging the 2nd line. Your thoughts?

Welcome to the boards.

Just a little heads up, its never a bad idea to use the "search forum" dialog box at the bottom of the general discussion page when posting non-news related threads. It helps keep the duplicates to a minimum.