Line combos/pairings for scrimmages

[Guest mindfly]

Following is a Quote

Here's the line combinations and defense pairings the Red Wings will use during their training camp scrimmages. The top forward lines are expected to stay intact for the start of the season. Some lines feature players who are competing against each other for roster spots, some lines feature players who'll be sent down to Grand Rapids. On defense, they're giving the young guys (Meech, Quincey, Ericsson, Kindl, Pyett) an opportunity to play with a veteran:

Team Abel

(Forwards)

Jiri Hudler-Henrik Zetterberg-Johan Franzen

Ville Leino-Darren Helm-Aaron Downey

Dick Axelsson-Evan McGrath-Jan Mursak

Jordan Foreman-Francis Lemieux-Ryan Cameron

(Defense)

Niklas Kronwall-Derek Meech

Jonathan Ericsson-Brad Stuart

Sergei Kolasau-Kyle Deck

Cameron Cepek

(Goalies)

Chris Osgood

Thomas McCollum

Team Delvecchio

(Forwards)

Tomas Holmstrom-Pavel Datsyuk-Marian Hossa

Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty

Ryan Oulahen-Cory Emmerton-Darren Haydar

Brent Raedeke-Francis Pare-Cody Thornton

(Defense)

Brett Lebda-Andreas Lilja

Kyle Quincey-Chris Chelios

Jason Jozsa-Tom Galvin

Martin Ondrej

(Goalies)

Jimmy Howard

Daniel Larsson

Team Sawchuk

(Forwards)

Dan Cleary-Valtteri Filppula-Mikael Samuelsson

Tomas Kopecky-Kris Draper-Kirk Maltby

Jamie Tardiff-Zach Torquato-Randall Gelech

Stephen Johnston-Bryce Swan

(Defense)

Nicklas Lidstrom-Logan Pyett

Jakub Kindl-Brian Rafalski

Travis Ehrhardt-Brian Lashoff

P.J. Atherton-Joe Ryan

(Goalies)

Ty Conklin

Larry Sterling

Which team will be victorious do you think? =)

Edited September 19, 2008 by mindfly

[Scotty 0]

I have a funny feeling that all of them will be pretty successful.

[Guest mindfly]

I have a funny feeling that all of them will be pretty successful.

True they have been teamed up so that they are equally strong I think hmm

[Superman54 91]

1. Team Sawchuck

2. Team Abel

3. Team Delvecchio

Edited September 19, 2008 by Superman54

[Dawgs 0]

Id say Abel is the best, mostly due to defense and goaltending. On the surface, Sawchuck looks like it may lack offense, with thier scoring line being the third line, but they do have the Draper line and Lidstrom and Rafalski. Overall, it looks like they did a bang up job trying to keep things even. My only complaint is Leino should have better linemates. I'd like a good look at what we got.

[Guest mindfly]

I place Team Abel first I think, but all teams are more or less the same

[marcaractac 3,963]

Wow Lids and Pyett are gonna own on the PP together

[Slave 31]

Id say Abel is the best, mostly due to defense and goaltending. On the surface, Sawchuck looks like it may lack offense, with thier scoring line being the third line, but they do have the Draper line and Lidstrom and Rafalski. Overall, it looks like they did a bang up job trying to keep things even. My only complaint is Leino should have better linemates. I'd like a good look at what we got.

that is exactly waht i was thinking

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense

At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!).

Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense

At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!).

Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games.

No kidding. Lebda and Lilja as a top pair. ouch.

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty intriguing line. future 4th line?

[Dabura 12,207]

I'm liking Sawchuck.

About Leino -- if he makes the team, he'll be playing on the fourth line. So it's reliastic. Kinda.

[ruarc' 2]

Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense

At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!).

Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games.

I don't suppose this will ultimately determine which d-man the Wings decide to deal?

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, assuming the decision hasn't already been made...one has to think that Lebda and Lilja are paired together as a performance evaluation. They are the only two defenseman among the Wings' 5th-9th defensemen who are playing on a pairing together. They are also the only pairing of two roster players who played in the NHL the past two or more seasons who are not being played with a prospect.

Quincey and Meech, as well as others, are being put with veterans to aid in their development. This suggests the team is investing in their development and does not plan to just dump them off. Chelios is being used for the development of prospects, and at his age and status with the club he would not have a contract if he was in danger of being shipped out.

Lebda has to be assumed as holding the advantage over Lilja due to age and contract status; and Lilja must significantly outplay not just Lebda, but Quincey and Meech as well to justify his place on the roster. He must outplay them to a degree that the Wings feel that moving a forward to clear cap space is a better move for the team than moving Lilja. If one of the youngsters such as Leino, Helm, or McGrath, or possibly an oldster like McCarty, can show up and make an impact and make a more expensive forward expendable, this becomes more possible.

That said...Lilja is probably shipped out in the next two weeks.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

Well, assuming the decision hasn't already been made...one has to think that Lebda and Lilja are paired together as a performance evaluation. They are the only two defenseman among the Wings' 5th-9th defensemen who are playing on a pairing together. They are also the only pairing of two roster players who played in the NHL the past two or more seasons who are not being played with a prospect.

Quincey and Meech, as well as others, are being put with veterans to aid in their development. This suggests the team is investing in their development and does not plan to just dump them off. Chelios is being used for the development of prospects, and at his age and status with the club he would not have a contract if he was in danger of being shipped out.

Lebda has to be assumed as holding the advantage over Lilja due to age and contract status; and Lilja must significantly outplay not just Lebda, but Quincey and Meech as well to justify his place on the roster. He must outplay them to a degree that the Wings feel that moving a forward to clear cap space is a better move for the team than moving Lilja. If one of the youngsters such as Leino, Helm, or McGrath, or possibly an oldster like McCarty, can show up and make an impact and make a more expensive forward expendable, this becomes more possible.

That said...Lilja is probably shipped out in the next two weeks.

That's pretty much dead-on what I was thinking when I saw that pairing. I would love to see Leino outplay some of the higher paid forwards (i.e. Sammy). If we could dump Lilja and Sammy and replace them with younger, cheaper, better players I would be feeling amazing about this team.

[Dabura 12,207]

Leino is not going to supplant Sammy. In all likelihood, Leino won't even make the cut.

I should just put that in my sig.

[Dabura 12,207]

Sammy's one of the best bargains in the league, by the way. If we're going to point fingers at "overpaid"/"useless" Wings, there are better targets.

[eva unit zero 271]

That's pretty much dead-on what I was thinking when I saw that pairing. I would love to see Leino outplay some of the higher paid forwards (i.e. Sammy). If we could dump Lilja and Sammy and replace them with younger, cheaper, better players I would be feeling amazing about this team.

Sammy is not one of the higher paid forwards on the team, and he is one of the best bargains in the league. He's actually the 8th highest paid. He's a top-six caliber forward capable of playing the power play and the penalty kill who is paid like a third liner. Leino is a one-dimensional prospect who might challenge for a spot and is probably behind several other prospects who are at camp in that regard. If the Wings open up a spot on the roster for a prospect forward, Leino likely doesn't have first dibs.

Given that Sammy is a top-six NHL forward, while Leino has yet to prove he is an NHL forward at all...I am not sold on your 'younger, cheaper, better' comment as anything more than whipping the whipping boy.

[dicksmack 33]

Glad to see some folks sticking up for sammy boy. He earned some respect playing well in the SCF.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty intriguing line. future 4th line?

Grand Rapids' 2nd line.

[Chunkylover 26]

According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well).

Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though.

It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well).

Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though.

It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team.

Quincy would be picked up as soon as he hit the waiver wire. The Wings would just be throwing him away if they tried to send him to GR!

[eva unit zero 271]

According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well).

Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though.

It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team.

The Wings are currently, including all 25 players who are not waiver-exempt, over the cap by about $1.373m. The 25 players are 14 forwards, 9 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders, and the Wings intend to cut that down to 13-8-2...so the two players who have to be removed will be one forward and one defenseman.

But the average cap hit of the two players must be above $686,500...meaning that the combination you posted is one of a few that would keep the Wings above the cap. It's actually quite simple who must go when you break it down. We'll start by breaking down the defensemen, and who they could be paired with.

Derek Meech, $483,333.

To reach the magic number, Meech would have to be paired with Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, or Mikael Samuelsson. Any forward making more than those guys is too valuable to be waived just for the cap space or traded just for picks and/or prospects. Any forward making less doesn't make enough.

Kyle Quincey, $525,000.

Brett Lebda, $650,000.

Quincey or Lebda could be paired with Kirk Maltby as well as any of the above mentioned forwards.

Andreas Lilja, $1,250,000.

Lilja is the only defenseman in the 'moveable' group who moves the majority of the overage. As such, he is the only defenseman who can be moved alongside one of Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey, the only two players on the Wings' roster who would clear waivers if Detroit were to attempt sending them to the minors.

Ultimately, the waiver concern, combined with the fact that Lilja is the only option that removes only players over 30 who are 4th line or below forwards and 3rd pair or below defensemen makes trading or waiving him by far the most appealing option.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The Wings are currently, including all 25 players who are not waiver-exempt, over the cap by about $1.373m. The 25 players are 14 forwards, 9 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders, and the Wings intend to cut that down to 13-8-2...so the two players who have to be removed will be one forward and one defenseman.

But the average cap hit of the two players must be above $686,500...meaning that the combination you posted is one of a few that would keep the Wings above the cap. It's actually quite simple who must go when you break it down. We'll start by breaking down the defensemen, and who they could be paired with.

Derek Meech, $483,333.

To reach the magic number, Meech would have to be paired with Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, or Mikael Samuelsson. Any forward making more than those guys is too valuable to be waived just for the cap space or traded just for picks and/or prospects. Any forward making less doesn't make enough.

Kyle Quincey, $525,000.

Brett Lebda, $650,000.

Quincey or Lebda could be paired with Kirk Maltby as well as any of the above mentioned forwards.

Andreas Lilja, $1,250,000.

Lilja is the only defenseman in the 'moveable' group who moves the majority of the overage. As such, he is the only defenseman who can be moved alongside one of Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey, the only two players on the Wings' roster who would clear waivers if Detroit were to attempt sending them to the minors.

Ultimately, the waiver concern, combined with the fact that Lilja is the only option that removes only players over 30 who are 4th line or below forwards and 3rd pair or below defensemen makes trading or waiving him by far the most appealing option.

Eva, we get it. You're certain Lilja will be moved.

Do we really need to have this discussion in every single thread?

[eva unit zero 271]

Eva, we get it. You're certain Lilja will be moved.

Do we really need to have this discussion in every single thread?

I am simply responding with the same general point in all of the threads on the topic of 'roster stuff' or 'defensive logjam' or 'who's going to be traded' or similar threads that at some point ask the question of 'who's going to be traded or waived?'

Is it the fact that I have been unwaveringly consistent in my posts that annoys you harold, or is it the fact that despite the fact I have limited the 'Lilja is going to be traded' posts to threads where the posts were on topic, they have still been posted in probably somewhere between 25%-50% of new threads in the GD forum in the past two months?

I know that it's the second one that annoys me.