Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 19, 2008 (edited) Following is a Quote Here's the line combinations and defense pairings the Red Wings will use during their training camp scrimmages. The top forward lines are expected to stay intact for the start of the season. Some lines feature players who are competing against each other for roster spots, some lines feature players who'll be sent down to Grand Rapids. On defense, they're giving the young guys (Meech, Quincey, Ericsson, Kindl, Pyett) an opportunity to play with a veteran: Team Abel (Forwards) Jiri Hudler-Henrik Zetterberg-Johan Franzen Ville Leino-Darren Helm-Aaron Downey Dick Axelsson-Evan McGrath-Jan Mursak Jordan Foreman-Francis Lemieux-Ryan Cameron (Defense) Niklas Kronwall-Derek Meech Jonathan Ericsson-Brad Stuart Sergei Kolasau-Kyle Deck Cameron Cepek (Goalies) Chris Osgood Thomas McCollum Team Delvecchio (Forwards) Tomas Holmstrom-Pavel Datsyuk-Marian Hossa Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty Ryan Oulahen-Cory Emmerton-Darren Haydar Brent Raedeke-Francis Pare-Cody Thornton (Defense) Brett Lebda-Andreas Lilja Kyle Quincey-Chris Chelios Jason Jozsa-Tom Galvin Martin Ondrej (Goalies) Jimmy Howard Daniel Larsson Team Sawchuk (Forwards) Dan Cleary-Valtteri Filppula-Mikael Samuelsson Tomas Kopecky-Kris Draper-Kirk Maltby Jamie Tardiff-Zach Torquato-Randall Gelech Stephen Johnston-Bryce Swan (Defense) Nicklas Lidstrom-Logan Pyett Jakub Kindl-Brian Rafalski Travis Ehrhardt-Brian Lashoff P.J. Atherton-Joe Ryan (Goalies) Ty Conklin Larry Sterling Which team will be victorious do you think? =) Edited September 19, 2008 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scotty 0 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 I have a funny feeling that all of them will be pretty successful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 19, 2008 I have a funny feeling that all of them will be pretty successful. True they have been teamed up so that they are equally strong I think hmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman54 91 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 (edited) 1. Team Sawchuck 2. Team Abel 3. Team Delvecchio Edited September 19, 2008 by Superman54 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dawgs 0 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Id say Abel is the best, mostly due to defense and goaltending. On the surface, Sawchuck looks like it may lack offense, with thier scoring line being the third line, but they do have the Draper line and Lidstrom and Rafalski. Overall, it looks like they did a bang up job trying to keep things even. My only complaint is Leino should have better linemates. I'd like a good look at what we got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted September 19, 2008 I place Team Abel first I think, but all teams are more or less the same Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Wow Lids and Pyett are gonna own on the PP together Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slave 31 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Id say Abel is the best, mostly due to defense and goaltending. On the surface, Sawchuck looks like it may lack offense, with thier scoring line being the third line, but they do have the Draper line and Lidstrom and Rafalski. Overall, it looks like they did a bang up job trying to keep things even. My only complaint is Leino should have better linemates. I'd like a good look at what we got. that is exactly waht i was thinking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!). Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!). Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games. No kidding. Lebda and Lilja as a top pair. ouch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrossoverThrash 0 Report post Posted September 19, 2008 Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty intriguing line. future 4th line? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 I'm liking Sawchuck. About Leino -- if he makes the team, he'll be playing on the fourth line. So it's reliastic. Kinda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruarc' 2 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Team Delvecchio is screwwwwwwed on defense At least they've got both Pav and Hoss up front (which is likely the reasoning that allowed them to get shafted in the defense department!). Man oh man I'd love to see the video of these games. I don't suppose this will ultimately determine which d-man the Wings decide to deal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Well, assuming the decision hasn't already been made...one has to think that Lebda and Lilja are paired together as a performance evaluation. They are the only two defenseman among the Wings' 5th-9th defensemen who are playing on a pairing together. They are also the only pairing of two roster players who played in the NHL the past two or more seasons who are not being played with a prospect. Quincey and Meech, as well as others, are being put with veterans to aid in their development. This suggests the team is investing in their development and does not plan to just dump them off. Chelios is being used for the development of prospects, and at his age and status with the club he would not have a contract if he was in danger of being shipped out. Lebda has to be assumed as holding the advantage over Lilja due to age and contract status; and Lilja must significantly outplay not just Lebda, but Quincey and Meech as well to justify his place on the roster. He must outplay them to a degree that the Wings feel that moving a forward to clear cap space is a better move for the team than moving Lilja. If one of the youngsters such as Leino, Helm, or McGrath, or possibly an oldster like McCarty, can show up and make an impact and make a more expensive forward expendable, this becomes more possible. That said...Lilja is probably shipped out in the next two weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukownzU13 1 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Well, assuming the decision hasn't already been made...one has to think that Lebda and Lilja are paired together as a performance evaluation. They are the only two defenseman among the Wings' 5th-9th defensemen who are playing on a pairing together. They are also the only pairing of two roster players who played in the NHL the past two or more seasons who are not being played with a prospect. Quincey and Meech, as well as others, are being put with veterans to aid in their development. This suggests the team is investing in their development and does not plan to just dump them off. Chelios is being used for the development of prospects, and at his age and status with the club he would not have a contract if he was in danger of being shipped out. Lebda has to be assumed as holding the advantage over Lilja due to age and contract status; and Lilja must significantly outplay not just Lebda, but Quincey and Meech as well to justify his place on the roster. He must outplay them to a degree that the Wings feel that moving a forward to clear cap space is a better move for the team than moving Lilja. If one of the youngsters such as Leino, Helm, or McGrath, or possibly an oldster like McCarty, can show up and make an impact and make a more expensive forward expendable, this becomes more possible. That said...Lilja is probably shipped out in the next two weeks. That's pretty much dead-on what I was thinking when I saw that pairing. I would love to see Leino outplay some of the higher paid forwards (i.e. Sammy). If we could dump Lilja and Sammy and replace them with younger, cheaper, better players I would be feeling amazing about this team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Leino is not going to supplant Sammy. In all likelihood, Leino won't even make the cut. I should just put that in my sig. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Sammy's one of the best bargains in the league, by the way. If we're going to point fingers at "overpaid"/"useless" Wings, there are better targets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 That's pretty much dead-on what I was thinking when I saw that pairing. I would love to see Leino outplay some of the higher paid forwards (i.e. Sammy). If we could dump Lilja and Sammy and replace them with younger, cheaper, better players I would be feeling amazing about this team. Sammy is not one of the higher paid forwards on the team, and he is one of the best bargains in the league. He's actually the 8th highest paid. He's a top-six caliber forward capable of playing the power play and the penalty kill who is paid like a third liner. Leino is a one-dimensional prospect who might challenge for a spot and is probably behind several other prospects who are at camp in that regard. If the Wings open up a spot on the roster for a prospect forward, Leino likely doesn't have first dibs. Given that Sammy is a top-six NHL forward, while Leino has yet to prove he is an NHL forward at all...I am not sold on your 'younger, cheaper, better' comment as anything more than whipping the whipping boy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Glad to see some folks sticking up for sammy boy. He earned some respect playing well in the SCF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickeyisms Rule! 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 Mattias Ritola-Justin Abdelkader-Darren McCarty intriguing line. future 4th line? Grand Rapids' 2nd line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chunkylover 26 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well). Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though. It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LIDDYGIBBY5 1 Report post Posted September 20, 2008 According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well). Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though. It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team. Quincy would be picked up as soon as he hit the waiver wire. The Wings would just be throwing him away if they tried to send him to GR! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted September 21, 2008 According to NHLscap the Wings only need to start Quincey and Downey in GR to be under the cap (this assumes all waiver-exempt players start there as well). Both are unlikely to be claimed, especially Downey, but if they are would be entirely replaceable, especially Quincey. It'll be close though. It would be nice to see all these guys remain with the team. The Wings are currently, including all 25 players who are not waiver-exempt, over the cap by about $1.373m. The 25 players are 14 forwards, 9 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders, and the Wings intend to cut that down to 13-8-2...so the two players who have to be removed will be one forward and one defenseman. But the average cap hit of the two players must be above $686,500...meaning that the combination you posted is one of a few that would keep the Wings above the cap. It's actually quite simple who must go when you break it down. We'll start by breaking down the defensemen, and who they could be paired with. Derek Meech, $483,333. To reach the magic number, Meech would have to be paired with Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, or Mikael Samuelsson. Any forward making more than those guys is too valuable to be waived just for the cap space or traded just for picks and/or prospects. Any forward making less doesn't make enough. Kyle Quincey, $525,000. Brett Lebda, $650,000. Quincey or Lebda could be paired with Kirk Maltby as well as any of the above mentioned forwards. Andreas Lilja, $1,250,000. Lilja is the only defenseman in the 'moveable' group who moves the majority of the overage. As such, he is the only defenseman who can be moved alongside one of Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey, the only two players on the Wings' roster who would clear waivers if Detroit were to attempt sending them to the minors. Ultimately, the waiver concern, combined with the fact that Lilja is the only option that removes only players over 30 who are 4th line or below forwards and 3rd pair or below defensemen makes trading or waiving him by far the most appealing option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted September 21, 2008 The Wings are currently, including all 25 players who are not waiver-exempt, over the cap by about $1.373m. The 25 players are 14 forwards, 9 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders, and the Wings intend to cut that down to 13-8-2...so the two players who have to be removed will be one forward and one defenseman. But the average cap hit of the two players must be above $686,500...meaning that the combination you posted is one of a few that would keep the Wings above the cap. It's actually quite simple who must go when you break it down. We'll start by breaking down the defensemen, and who they could be paired with. Derek Meech, $483,333. To reach the magic number, Meech would have to be paired with Johan Franzen, Jiri Hudler, or Mikael Samuelsson. Any forward making more than those guys is too valuable to be waived just for the cap space or traded just for picks and/or prospects. Any forward making less doesn't make enough. Kyle Quincey, $525,000. Brett Lebda, $650,000. Quincey or Lebda could be paired with Kirk Maltby as well as any of the above mentioned forwards. Andreas Lilja, $1,250,000. Lilja is the only defenseman in the 'moveable' group who moves the majority of the overage. As such, he is the only defenseman who can be moved alongside one of Darren McCarty or Aaron Downey, the only two players on the Wings' roster who would clear waivers if Detroit were to attempt sending them to the minors. Ultimately, the waiver concern, combined with the fact that Lilja is the only option that removes only players over 30 who are 4th line or below forwards and 3rd pair or below defensemen makes trading or waiving him by far the most appealing option. Eva, we get it. You're certain Lilja will be moved. Do we really need to have this discussion in every single thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted September 22, 2008 Eva, we get it. You're certain Lilja will be moved. Do we really need to have this discussion in every single thread? I am simply responding with the same general point in all of the threads on the topic of 'roster stuff' or 'defensive logjam' or 'who's going to be traded' or similar threads that at some point ask the question of 'who's going to be traded or waived?' Is it the fact that I have been unwaveringly consistent in my posts that annoys you harold, or is it the fact that despite the fact I have limited the 'Lilja is going to be traded' posts to threads where the posts were on topic, they have still been posted in probably somewhere between 25%-50% of new threads in the GD forum in the past two months? I know that it's the second one that annoys me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites